totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[Terwin]

38 minutes ago, Feye said:

• Snooping around in the *.cfgs revealed most products being made by various parts have "DumpExcess = FALSE", while byproducts such as Recyclables have this as TRUE.
  Doesn't this mean that production of something would eventually just stop because "storage full"? Combined with how the stock game processes resource throughput (playing "catch up") when you switch back to a craft after a while, would it not be more reasonable to just have everything have "DumpExcess = True" considering resources don't deplete?
  Might be a tricky one for just ship based production chains.. probably best to keep this False for Supplies

 

If you need to ship-in specialized parts(or exotic minerals, or ...) do you really want all of those shipped-in resources to be consumed to manufacture something that will just be thrown away?

Most colonies have at least one resource constraint.  Planetary stockpiles and WOLF make that issue easier to deal with, but it does not eliminate it.

Even colonies without a current resource constraint may well develop one in the future(colonization multipliers can do this), so wasting rare or hard to find resources on something that is not useful seems like a generally bad idea.

The only reason things like Recyclables and Mulch dump excess, is because these are by-products, and you do not really want your Kerbals to starve to death or stop manufacturing just because you might lose some potentially recyclable materials.

 

I would often have bays producing enriched uranium and machinery just for the sake of keeping my resources 'topped off' while using a majority of the resources for other things(like colony supplies).

I could not supply enough raw materials to keep all of my processes running at full production, but as some of them would only produce 'as needed' I had plenty of resources to do everything I wanted done. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Terwin

[Feye]

If Colony Supplies to freeze the Hab timers and Supplies to provide food indefinitely are taken care of, there's no need to stop production of anything else since resources you dig up from the ground don't deplete and WOLF doesn't care about time at all.
Even if you dump excess of "end products" provided by a WOLF Hopper e.g. Material Kits there cannot be any other place where the resources used to make these things could have gone to otherwise.

So "waste" by design doesn't exist... for WOLF infrastructure and anything you make with the resources provided by Hoppers at least...

 

Unless of course, I'm just missing something totally obvious.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Feye

[TBenz]

3 minutes ago, Feye said:

If Colony Supplies to freeze the Hab timers and Supplies to provide food indefinitely are taken care of, there's no need to stop production of anything else since resources you dig up from the ground don't deplete and WOLF doesn't care about time at all.
Even if you dump excess of "end products" provided by a WOLF Hopper e.g. Material Kits there cannot be any other place where the resources used to make these things could have gone to otherwise.

So "waste" by design doesn't exist... for WOLF infrastructure and anything you make with the resources provided by Hoppers at least...

 

Unless of course, I'm just missing something totally obvious.

These production chains don't exist solely in wolf, dumping excess could negatively impact chains using regular converters. 

[Feye]

Can you give an example please?

The ratios at which regular MKS parts produce and consume parts more often than not to not have any common denominator, the Governor setting is locked to being multiples of 0.1, and the way efficiency boosting works is pretty much a black box without digging through the *.cfgs to determine the values associated with it as the game does not display this kind of information.

So what you end up getting is a refinery bay making Silicon from Silicates at a slightly higher rate that another one consumes it, eventually leading to that bay shutting down due to "storage full", at which point another process will eventually eat through the stockpile and then shutdown itself due to "lack of resource" and then the entire chain just suffers a blackout.
I haven't tried using the local storage as planetary warehouse so the "storage full" never occurs tho.. that might be a solution to that problem...

[Terwin]

27 minutes ago, Feye said:

Can you give an example please?

The ratios at which regular MKS parts produce and consume parts more often than not to not have any common denominator, the Governor setting is locked to being multiples of 0.1, and the way efficiency boosting works is pretty much a black box without digging through the *.cfgs to determine the values associated with it as the game does not display this kind of information.

So what you end up getting is a refinery bay making Silicon from Silicates at a slightly higher rate that another one consumes it, eventually leading to that bay shutting down due to "storage full", at which point another process will eventually eat through the stockpile and then shutdown itself due to "lack of resource" and then the entire chain just suffers a blackout.
I haven't tried using the local storage as planetary warehouse so the "storage full" never occurs tho.. that might be a solution to that problem...

Example:

Any MKS base that is not yet fully self sufficient and thus requires some parts/resources to be shipped in.

 

DumpExcess = FALSE does *not* shut down the process, it pauses it until there is storage available for the output, at which point it resumes until storage is full again.  Just like the stock ISRU processor that will turn ore into fuel until the tanks are full, then wait for free space in the tanks before processing any more.(your recommendation would have the ISRU keep making fuel, that would be dumped over-board, until the ore tanks are empty)  

Like with my example of a uranium enrichment processor.  Most of the time it just sits there processing at a small % of capacity, but occasionally I deploy a new reactor and need to refill my reserves, at which point it kicks in to full gear, all without any action on my part directed to the enrichment processor.

To calculate your 'boost' from efficiency parts, add together the weight of all efficiency parts and divide by the weight of the parts being boosted, and that is the % of boost being provided.

If you have 10t of efficiency parts running at 100%, and 10t of processing parts, the efficiency boost will double the production of your processing parts, just as if the efficiency parts were doing the same processing.  

Efficiency processes basically let you perform more advanced processes with lower-tech parts.

So those 43 ranger rock-crushers(0.08t*43=3.44t) you sent up for your early bases, instead of becoming useless dead-weight, can be set to efficiency mode, almost doubling the production of your new Tundra refinery(3.471t).  Almost as if you sent up a second tundra refinery from the start(using the same launch capacity).  

Edited February 25, 2021 by Terwin

[Feye]

4 minutes ago, Terwin said:

DumpExcess = FALSE does *not* shut down the process, it pauses it

Ooooohh.. alright, that's down to me making a false assumption then. Good to know

11 minutes ago, Terwin said:

Like with my example of a uranium enrichment processor.  Most of the time it just sits there processing at a small % of capacity, but occasionally I deploy a new reactor and need to refill my reserves, at which point it kicks in to full gear, all without any action on my part directed to the enrichment processor.

So machines also work on "input empty"? As in, just work with whatever diminished input they receive instead of shutting down completely?
Come to think of it, ISRUs work that way, they just take whatever amount of Ore and spit out LFO in appropriate quantities...

Maybe I should have played around a bit more in the game instead of in Excel-Tunnelvision trying to figure out numbers and ratios

[RoverDude]

The good news is that MKS uses stock converters

[DoktorKrogg]

10 hours ago, Feye said:

And just to be clear (because sometimes text doesn't convey intent properly), it was not meant as a "vague feedback", just mere curiosity on my part

And just to be clear, my comment re: vague feedback was not an implication that vague feedback had been made but rather an attempt to offer guidance to would-be commenters on what's helpful and what isn't. So we're good. 

[chateaudav]

Hi folks,

USI MKS section in KSPedia is not showing up... any clue ? =)

Thanks !

[Brigadier]

2 hours ago, chateaudav said:

Hi folks,

USI MKS section in KSPedia is not showing up... any clue ? =)

Thanks !

Which versions of KSP and MKS are you using?  If there's a mismatch - mostly newer versions of MKS with older versions KSP - KSP will complain that the entries aren't compiled for the correct version and they won't display.

[chateaudav]

@Brigadier I use KSP 1.11.1 build 03066 with USI MKS constellation 2020.12.22.01 for ksp 1.11.0

[lensir]

So which parts can I delete from Global Construction? I'm sorry if this has already been answered, it's very hard to find definite answers.

[Feye]

1 hour ago, lensir said:

So which parts can I delete from Global Construction? I'm sorry if this has already been answered, it's very hard to find definite answers.

Everything not in use by any craft in your current save.
You can test this by (making a zip of the GC folder first obviously and then) deleting the GC folder.
If there are any parts in use, the game will tell you when you click on "load" that parts are missing. You can then restore the parts in question and try again.
Use at your own risk obviously

I just finished deploying WOLF Depots in every single biome in Kerbin SOI - my body save is ready for the USI construction update(s)

[lensir]

 

1 hour ago, Feye said:

Everything not in use by any craft in your current save.
You can test this by (making a zip of the GC folder first obviously and then) deleting the GC folder.
If there are any parts in use, the game will tell you when you click on "load" that parts are missing. You can then restore the parts in question and try again.
Use at your own risk obviously

I just finished deploying WOLF Depots in every single biome in Kerbin SOI - my body save is ready for the USI construction update(s)

So everything that you need for Global Construction has a MKS Equivalent and I can just delete all those parts?

 

Thanks alot!

[chateaudav]

Quote

Hi folks,

USI MKS section in KSPedia is not showing up... any clue ? =)

Thanks !

Quote

I use KSP 1.11.1 build 03066 with USI MKS constellation 2020.12.22.01 for ksp 1.11.0

I tried to update / reinstall with CKAN, all works perfect except the usi mks kspedia section stills not showing up.

[modus]

Hasn't that been broken for a while?

[chateaudav]

I don't know but it would be helpful..

Edited February 27, 2021 by chateaudav

[mcortez]

On 2/22/2021 at 2:23 PM, RoverDude said:

Oh... we have a Discord thing now...  https://discord.gg/UuPgNG52SX 

Ah boo, says invalid or expired -- guess I missed the window to be part of the in-crowd 

[Feye]

1 hour ago, lensir said:

So everything that you need for Global Construction has a MKS Equivalent and I can just delete all those parts?

No.
At least not yet. They are still working on the next update (Soon™).

So if you're still relying on building stuff off-world, don't go on a purging spree in your GameData folder just yet

[Brigadier]

2 hours ago, mcortez said:

Ah boo, says invalid or expired -- guess I missed the window to be part of the in-crowd 

Yeah, that did happen.  Watch RoverDude's Twitch steam when you next can.  I'm pretty sure the !discord chat command will display the link (obviously I can't display it now because RD is streaming now won't be this weekend)

[DoktorKrogg]

Updated Discord link:

https://discord.gg/FNBwUXRgX8

Edited February 27, 2021 by DoktorKrogg

[chateaudav]

KSPedia section stills broken...  need help lol

[goldenpsp]

5 hours ago, chateaudav said:

KSPedia section stills broken...  need help lol

According to open issues, it has been down for awhile.  I wouldn't hold your breath.

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/issues/1477

[chateaudav]

Thanks for the answer and tthe update in github issues...

Now I just have to wait and pray so... at least i know that god is aware. ^^

[goldenpsp]

11 minutes ago, chateaudav said:

Thanks for the answer and tthe update in github issues...

Now I just have to wait and pray so... at least i know that god is aware. ^^

You can just use the github wiki for the info.  I imagine it should be the same.