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[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

RoverDude

By RoverDude
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rudemario

rudemario

Posted
Posted

Just more testing on the issue. Here, you can see, after 17 years of real MET time, the Hab number in location 2 hasn't moved an inch past the 55 years of hab it started with now that I've switched all of the converters to Kerbitat 3.75s.

PUMMBAw.png

Seems that Kerbitat's work fine, the converters affected are the Ranger line.

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usmc3891

usmc3891

Posted
Posted

I just have a quick question. I'm trying to attach a duna pioneer module on the karibou base to an anchor hub on the munar surface. I have a flex tube on both ends. When I join the tubes the tube on the duna module kind of falls off and stays attached to the anchor hub while the duna module starts to float away like its in zero g. What can I do to fix this? Everything is attached via nodes.

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Terwin

Terwin

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  On 5/11/2021 at 10:04 AM, usmc3891 said:

I just have a quick question. I'm trying to attach a duna pioneer module on the karibou base to an anchor hub on the munar surface. I have a flex tube on both ends. When I join the tubes the tube on the duna module kind of falls off and stays attached to the anchor hub while the duna module starts to float away like its in zero g. What can I do to fix this? Everything is attached via nodes.

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Flex tubes are kraken bait.

The recommended approach is disconnected bases(supported by MKS) which are supported by WOLF support bases.

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usmc3891

usmc3891

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  On 5/11/2021 at 11:29 AM, Terwin said:

Flex tubes are kraken bait.

The recommended approach is disconnected bases(supported by MKS) which are supported by WOLF support bases.

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I'll have to see what I can work out then. This is the first module on the mun for me. I should be able to haul one of the inflatable storage modules to a node from inventory.

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rudemario

rudemario

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I'm confused about drills and efficiencies.

I searched the thread and found a user from a while ago that was using mulitple drills and noticed that if all bays were drilling versus just one of the bays drilling, his temperature was not manageable and this was not reflected in what the parts were saying for output. Roverdude replied this was normal and said that multiple bays could be used but the output will remain the same depending on how you want to split it.

The wiki says this on Functions:

  Quote

For example, if an Industrial Refinery has one bay set to Silicon and two set to Metals, it will have a bay multiplier of 1 for Silicon and 2 for Metals. This means it will produce double the amount of Metals as it does Silicon.

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This seems contrary to what RoverDude mentioned. If the output equal no matter how it's split, then the output would be 0.333+0.666=1.

So, what results in more resources?

5 Drills with 1 bay set to Minerals and only that one bay active

Or 1 Drill with 5 bays active on Minerals.

Thanks for the help!

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Kerbals_of_Steel

Kerbals_of_Steel

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  On 5/18/2021 at 3:48 AM, rudemario said:

I'm confused about drills and efficiencies.

I searched the thread and found a user from a while ago that was using mulitple drills and noticed that if all bays were drilling versus just one of the bays drilling, his temperature was not manageable and this was not reflected in what the parts were saying for output. Roverdude replied this was normal and said that multiple bays could be used but the output will remain the same depending on how you want to split it.

The wiki says this on Functions:

This seems contrary to what RoverDude mentioned. If the output equal no matter how it's split, then the output would be 0.333+0.666=1.

So, what results in more resources?

5 Drills with 1 bay set to Minerals and only that one bay active

Or 1 Drill with 5 bays active on Minerals.

Thanks for the help!

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That's why the newest builds went away from having multiple bays on the drills. Stock thermal management is garbage.

 

KoS

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rudemario

rudemario

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Posted (edited)
  On 5/18/2021 at 11:32 AM, Kerbals_of_Steel said:

That's why the newest builds went away from having multiple bays on the drills. Stock thermal management is garbage.

 

KoS

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So, the most productive drill setup would be 1 drill with 5 bays, but the thermals accidentally and unintentionally limit the performance, meaning 5 drills with 1 bay is more efficient?

Edit: Basically, I'm just curious what the most or more efficient setup is for drills

Edited by rudemario
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Gilph

Gilph

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  On 5/18/2021 at 11:32 AM, Kerbals_of_Steel said:

That's why the newest builds went away from having multiple bays on the drills. Stock thermal management is garbage.

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  On 5/18/2021 at 1:33 PM, rudemario said:

So, the most productive drill setup would be 1 drill with 5 bays, but the thermals accidentally and unintentionally limit the performance, meaning 5 drills with 1 bay is more efficient?

Edit: Basically, I'm just curious what the most or more efficient setup is for drills

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The answer is, essentially, using the current version that only allows one resource per drill.  You still have to watch out for various bonuses that may increase your drill output, which causes more heat.

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256

256

Posted
Posted

So I'm in the middle of a Let's Play series using MKS and I just made a video explaining all the mods I'm using and why. Thought it might be of some interest to a few people. 

Jump to 11:10  for the discussion of MKS

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rudemario

rudemario

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  On 5/20/2021 at 12:06 PM, Gilph said:

 

The answer is, essentially, using the current version that only allows one resource per drill.  You still have to watch out for various bonuses that may increase your drill output, which causes more heat.

Expand  

  MKS version v1.3 was the "current version" for 10 months. Does this mean drills were unfunctional for 10 months on the newest version? Based on my testing that doesn't turn out to be the case, which means that's not the answer.

It turns out that Roverdudes comments about the drills are true and are not anywhere on the Functions page on the wiki. It appears that when you activate a second separator on the drill, it increases the thermal output to just the perfect degree to limit yourself to the same resource throughput as before. So if I was mining 9 dirt per second, adding a second separator of dirt will bring me down after the heat builds up to approximately 9~. This was only confusing as this was not mentioned on the wiki. It makes perfect sense that the Drills were previously setup in this way to simply allow you to split throughput between 5 resources by having a bigger drill, but the amount of resource mining is already chosen by how big of a drill you chose for the mission. Simply activating one bay is enough.

This does not appear to be a bug or broken at all. It's just un-intuitive and not mentioned. Drill throughput is chosen by the drill size and adding more separator bays just splits the output between the amount of resources chosen. It just looks like heat goes crazy by accident, when it's a feature as a way to limit throughput.

As to why I'm not using the latest pre-release:

  Reveal hidden contents

If something is a bug I don't expect support for it, I just want to know if it's intended functionality or not so I can understand MKS's mechanics so I can have fun.

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modus

modus

Posted
Posted
  On 5/20/2021 at 1:59 PM, rudemario said:

 As to why I'm not using the latest pre-release:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

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Yes, but in the prerelease there's Roverdudes own orbital shipyard that allows you to build ships in-situ...So you don't need EL or GC.
(but the choice is up to you ofcourse, not trying to tell you what to do :))

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Gilph

Gilph

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 5/20/2021 at 1:59 PM, rudemario said:

  MKS version v1.3 was the "current version" for 10 months. Does this mean drills were unfunctional for 10 months on the newest version? Based on my testing that doesn't turn out to be the case, which means that's not the answer.

It turns out that Roverdudes comments about the drills are true and are not anywhere on the Functions page on the wiki. It appears that when you activate a second separator on the drill, it increases the thermal output to just the perfect degree to limit yourself to the same resource throughput as before. So if I was mining 9 dirt per second, adding a second separator of dirt will bring me down after the heat builds up to approximately 9~. This was only confusing as this was not mentioned on the wiki. It makes perfect sense that the Drills were previously setup in this way to simply allow you to split throughput between 5 resources by having a bigger drill, but the amount of resource mining is already chosen by how big of a drill you chose for the mission. Simply activating one bay is enough.

This does not appear to be a bug or broken at all. It's just un-intuitive and not mentioned. Drill throughput is chosen by the drill size and adding more separator bays just splits the output between the amount of resources chosen. It just looks like heat goes crazy by accident, when it's a feature as a way to limit throughput.

As to why I'm not using the latest pre-release:

  Reveal hidden contents

If something is a bug I don't expect support for it, I just want to know if it's intended functionality or not so I can understand MKS's mechanics so I can have fun.

Expand  

That's actually good information that I wasn't aware of. Thanks

But, none of the above considers the bonuses problem, so just remember that if your drill, after bonuses, is running at 150%, you will need 150% of power and cooling per drill.  That's the only thing that really got me. Sometime not levelling Kerbals to counteract the bonuses was my only option.

I have not used the pre release Constellation, but I am using 1.4 with the single bays  for drills and manufacturing without any issues. Gameplay is roughly the same for everything else, and it's somewhat future friendly.

Edited by Gilph
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rudemario

rudemario

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Posted
  On 5/20/2021 at 2:45 PM, Gilph said:

That's actually good information that I wasn't aware of. Thanks

But, none of the above considers the bonuses problem, so just remember that if your drill, after bonuses, is running at 150%, you will need 150% of power and cooling per drill.  That's the only thing that really got me. Sometime not levelling Kerbals to counteract the bonuses was my only option.

I have not used the pre release Constellation, but I am using 1.4 with the single bays  for drills and manufacturing without any issues. Gameplay is roughly the same for everything else, and it's somewhat future friendly.

Expand  

Ah, I see, and that's a good point. That's not something I would've noticed in my testing, as I haven't delved deep enough to explore bonuses. I understand why they moved away from the Seperator decision, then, since when combined with other systems it produces strange and detrimental consequences.

Maybe I'll look into upgrading to at least 1.4 if things haven't changed too much. Although not even the pre-release constellation fixes the bug I was having earlier in the thread where Ranger parts when activated were having their total hab timers decrease instead of just the kerbals timers, meaning that I wouldn't be able to use those parts to make Kerbals have indefinite hab stays (over 50 years grants infinite stay, but as the hab total time value itself decreases, this pushes the total below 50 years and thus the vessel no longer has >50 years, removing the bonus. Also, it doesn't decrease 1:1, 1 year is like 20 years of hab for some reason).

Thanks, I appreciate you sharing your experience with it!

 

  On 5/20/2021 at 2:37 PM, modus said:

Yes, but in the prerelease there's Roverdudes own orbital shipyard that allows you to build ships in-situ...So you don't need EL or GC.
(but the choice is up to you ofcourse, not trying to tell you what to do :))

Expand  

I saw bits of that, but wasn't sure how long it would take to learn Roverdude's Konstruction variant of shipyards and I wasn't sure whether or not it allowed true in-situ building. As far as I was aware, I believe there was a set of components that always had to be shipped from Kerbin, much like how GC required you to choose a blueprint and ship it over. I think it would be cool to largely no longer use Kerbin altogether except for VAB and SPH building.

If the systems aren't that complex or aren't bleeding edge enough that they have little documentation to understand then I'd look into giving it a shot. Not against it, just would like to start playing instead of learning so much, and I've almost finally learned enough to start, lol!

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KSPrynk

KSPrynk

Posted
Posted (edited)

@DoktorKrogg, is there a USI "scaling-guide" for balancing habitation time and/or resource converters based on the size of a part?  I'm trying to assist development of a USI patch for Benjee10's Planetside Exploration Technologies mod.  I'm looking for something better than trying to linearly extrapolate MKS 2.5m and 3.75m Tundra series parts to the 1.875m and short 3.75m modules in PET.

Edited by KSPrynk
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DoktorKrogg

DoktorKrogg

Posted
Posted
  On 5/21/2021 at 12:15 AM, KSPrynk said:

@DoktorKrogg, is there a USI "scaling-guide" for balancing habitation time and/or resource converters based on the size of a part?

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There is whole spreadsheet for it in fact. I don't know the link off the top of my head but @RoverDude can probably get it for you (or it may have already been linked elsewhere in this thread). I seem to recall there was even a video explaining how to use the spreadsheet on YouTube or Twitch maybe...?

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KSPrynk

KSPrynk

Posted
Posted
  On 5/21/2021 at 12:25 AM, DoktorKrogg said:

There is whole spreadsheet for it in fact. I don't know the link off the top of my head but @RoverDude can probably get it for you (or it may have already been linked elsewhere in this thread). I seem to recall there was even a video explaining how to use the spreadsheet on YouTube or Twitch maybe...?

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Cool, that helped - I *think* I found the spreadsheet, via discussion here, from nearly four years ago.  Next step - finding the spreadsheet tutorial video....

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Kerbex

Kerbex

Posted
Posted (edited)

If I wanted to add Uranite to the WOLF system (harvesting it through WOLF), would the module on the harvesters for Uraninite have UraniniteVein as an InputResource?  Also I'm not seeing Uraninite show up after doing a WOLF scan in the list of harvestable resources, even though I have Uraninite in the wolf.cfg under AllowedHarvestableResources.

Edited by Kerbex
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modus

modus

Posted
Posted
  On 5/20/2021 at 10:17 PM, rudemario said:

I saw bits of that, but wasn't sure how long it would take to learn Roverdude's Konstruction variant of shipyards and I wasn't sure whether or not it allowed true in-situ building. As far as I was aware, I believe there was a set of components that always had to be shipped from Kerbin, much like how GC required you to choose a blueprint and ship it over. I think it would be cool to largely no longer use Kerbin altogether except for VAB and SPH building.

If the systems aren't that complex or aren't bleeding edge enough that they have little documentation to understand then I'd look into giving it a shot. Not against it, just would like to start playing instead of learning so much, and I've almost finally learned enough to start, lol!

Expand  

The Konstruction part is easy: it's one part that's lets you construct everything through a very simple UI, where you select the craft you want to build, and build it....if you have all the right resources, and that's were WOLF comes in the picture. Now, you can mine and make all the resources through MKS (given the fact that you're a bit reluctant to try WOLF) but that's going to be a hell of a job imo.


Not going to try to convince you or write a whole essay on the benefits of WOLF, but I can just say that I, after setting up WOLF -and yes, it's a new learning process and it takes time-  can effectively make ships without using Kerbin.

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notthebobo

notthebobo

Posted
Posted

Try it out!

Use the latest Constellation build to try them for yourself and use the introductions, diagrams, walkthroughs, and part descriptions on the Wiki to explore WOLF. This build also contains the Konstruction parts that allow in situ building of any parts or vehicle, planets ide or in orbit.

I can't find it in the documents or posts: is WOLF an acronym, and if so, for what?

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