totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[iontom]

Doesn't anybody have a set of builds they could share for smallest possible base required to build specialized parts, material kits and machinery?

I'm trying to figure out the minimum mass I can get away with for a self sustaining extrasolar colony. Being able to bootstrap from the ground up and utilize DIY-Kits + Extraplanetary Launchpads will be part of that process.

ALSO - are the interstellar modpacks compatible with the resource structure of USI?

Thanks!

Edited April 6, 2017 by iontom

[RoverDude]

To be honest, people get too fixated on having an individual base be self sufficient.  That's almost always going to be less efficient than, for example, attaching a box of Specialized Parts.  

[Baladain]

1 hour ago, iontom said:

Doesn't anybody have a set of builds they could share for smallest possible base required to build specialized parts, material kits and machinery?

I'm trying to figure out the minimum mass I can get away with for a self sustaining extrasolar colony. Being able to bootstrap from the ground up and utilize DIY-Kits + Extraplanetary Launchpads will be part of that process.

ALSO - are the interstellar modpacks compatible with the resource structure of USI?

Thanks!

The problem you're going to face is specialized parts.  Building those requires you to produce silicon and refined exotics.  Producing those requires rare metals, exotic minerals, and chemicals.  Chemicals requires minerals.  Out of that lot, only chemicals processing is available in a form factor smaller than 3.75

Then you need to keep in mind the life support requirements that are necessary to keep the kerbals alive to run the machinery so you can fabricate things at a reasonable rate.

 

You're much better off sending up a minimal base that can mine gypsum and substrate (or dirt, if necessary) to perform agroponics, then ship out mat kits and spec parts along with an inflatable workshop to build out additional units onsite and produce the machinery to keep you running.

[Wyzard]

10 hours ago, Phil Kerman said:

Do I have to attach radiators directly to the unit I want to cool down, or is it irrelevant? (Expanding my base on Iota and need to cool down the nuclear power plant + several drills/ISRU processors) 

Some radiators, like the stock non-extendable panels, can only cool the part they're directly attached to, plus other parts directly attached to that one.  These radiators say "cools only nearby parts" in orange in the VAB's part description.  Other radiators (like the stock extendable ones, and all of Nertea's) can cool parts anywhere on the craft.

Note that there's currently a bug with MKS drills (and possibly other parts) that causes them to take up much more radiator capacity than they actually need, which can prevent other parts from getting enough cooling.  You can work around the bug using "nearby-only" radiator panels whose cooling can't "reach" the offending drills.

(Edit: Oops, this was answered already but I accidentally overlooked a whole page of replies.)

Edited April 7, 2017 by Wyzard

[iontom]

1 hour ago, Baladain said:

The problem you're going to face is specialized parts.  Building those requires you to produce silicon and refined exotics.  Producing those requires rare metals, exotic minerals, and chemicals.  Chemicals requires minerals.  Out of that lot, only chemicals processing is available in a form factor smaller than 3.75

Then you need to keep in mind the life support requirements that are necessary to keep the kerbals alive to run the machinery so you can fabricate things at a reasonable rate.

 

You're much better off sending up a minimal base that can mine gypsum and substrate (or dirt, if necessary) to perform agroponics, then ship out mat kits and spec parts along with an inflatable workshop to build out additional units onsite and produce the machinery to keep you running.

Essentially that's what I'm planning. I'll parcel and send as many ships as I need to carrying a payload of MaterialKits and SpecializedParts until I can use the inflatable workshop to finish building the full size base, but from a DIY kit. At that distance, you want to have something fully capable of supporting your entire infrastructure. Then you use that to build out a ton of habitation and agroponics. Once that's done - you send your ship full of a few hundred Kryogenic Kerbals.

That's the goal anyway. It might be nice if there were Planetary City type constructs that could be built too - giant self contained resource loops that take a HUGE amount of supplies - which could be built in a late game colony.

[TauPhraim]

 

On 4/5/2017 at 11:21 PM, RoverDude said:

I think it is reasonable to include the geology bonus for sifters.  

Here is the PR.

Even at 600%, the output is not stellar, so no worries about balance, I think  By the way I agree with people who suggested they should consume more Dirt, and can change that if you want.

Shameless plug: I updated my MKS Explainer to account for the change.

 

8 hours ago, Baladain said:

Looking for mathematical values for how the following affect mining/manufacturing.  Can anyone help?

Kerbal Rank, Colonization rating, Efficiency part mass

None of this is simple, and depends a lot on the receiving converter's type and configuration. I suggest you give a try at my mod linked above. Although it's in-game only, it should answer these questions if you build a particular case.

[Baladain]

6 hours ago, TauPhraim said:

 

Here is the PR.

Even at 600%, the output is not stellar, so no worries about balance, I think  By the way I agree with people who suggested they should consume more Dirt, and can change that if you want.

Shameless plug: I updated my MKS Explainer to account for the change.

 

None of this is simple, and depends a lot on the receiving converter's type and configuration. I suggest you give a try at my mod linked above. Although it's in-game only, it should answer these questions if you build a particular case.

Thanks, I'll give it a shot this weekend.

9 hours ago, iontom said:

Essentially that's what I'm planning. I'll parcel and send as many ships as I need to carrying a payload of MaterialKits and SpecializedParts until I can use the inflatable workshop to finish building the full size base, but from a DIY kit. At that distance, you want to have something fully capable of supporting your entire infrastructure. Then you use that to build out a ton of habitation and agroponics. Once that's done - you send your ship full of a few hundred Kryogenic Kerbals.

That's the goal anyway. It might be nice if there were Planetary City type constructs that could be built too - giant self contained resource loops that take a HUGE amount of supplies - which could be built in a late game colony.

To me, a starting base for something like this would be duna pioneer, agriculture, one inflatable greenhouse and hab 1 small drill each configured for ore, gypsum (or dirt), a crusher for fertilizer, 2 scout power packs, probably three ISMs a small ISRU and 3-4 small radiator panels.

Send up a 2.5 kis container with ball hubs, flex tubes and kas connectors and your "inflatables" including workshop

That should be enough to keep your advanced crew alive until you can OSE/GC/EL larger modules in place.

 

You'll need 9000 material kits on site just to deploy this, you'll need to do a lot of calculation to figure out how many more you'll need to build the rest on-site

Edited April 7, 2017 by Baladain

[Gilph]

17 hours ago, Baladain said:

Looking for mathematical values for how the following affect mining/manufacturing.  Can anyone help?

Kerbal Rank, Colonization rating, Efficiency part mass

I'd like to incorporate these into my efficiency calc if possible.

 

Speaking of which:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VNjzKn8w9q7PJMy0fHE91Q_XF-xBQ0BxziR8lk-o-J0/edit?usp=sharing

Fixed the refined exotics recipe and its corresponding error on the wiki.

@Gilph According to my math you need 7 organics bays (assuming substrate), not 8.  Double check me?  This may be due to organics no longer being an input for the organic production recipe.

You are correct...I never updated after that change went into effect. I'm still using 8 because I don't need to change it.

13 hours ago, Baladain said:

The problem you're going to face is specialized parts.  Building those requires you to produce silicon and refined exotics.  Producing those requires rare metals, exotic minerals, and chemicals.  Chemicals requires minerals.  Out of that lot, only chemicals processing is available in a form factor smaller than 3.75

Then you need to keep in mind the life support requirements that are necessary to keep the kerbals alive to run the machinery so you can fabricate things at a reasonable rate.

 

You're much better off sending up a minimal base that can mine gypsum and substrate (or dirt, if necessary) to perform agroponics, then ship out mat kits and spec parts along with an inflatable workshop to build out additional units onsite and produce the machinery to keep you running.

Add the fact that you need at least a 3.75 tank for silicates. Once the bonuses kick in, you will run out of tank space for catch up processing if you go smaller (in this version).

[Gilph]

11 hours ago, iontom said:

Essentially that's what I'm planning. I'll parcel and send as many ships as I need to carrying a payload of MaterialKits and SpecializedParts until I can use the inflatable workshop to finish building the full size base, but from a DIY kit. At that distance, you want to have something fully capable of supporting your entire infrastructure. Then you use that to build out a ton of habitation and agroponics. Once that's done - you send your ship full of a few hundred Kryogenic Kerbals.

That's the goal anyway. It might be nice if there were Planetary City type constructs that could be built too - giant self contained resource loops that take a HUGE amount of supplies - which could be built in a late game colony.

One of the things I did recently is to create two manufacturing bases: one for MK and one for everything else.  The MK uses two refineries and a ranger workshop.  What was good about it was that it was not that much heavier than sending a ton of MK. The MK you make in the beginning is used to inflate stuff, and when that is done, you can use it as input to the other manufacturing base to make machinery. Since Machinery uses 4 times the amount of MK than SP, using the ranger workshop will make MK at about 3 times faster than an Assembly, so things are a bit more balanced in end game.

[Phil Kerman]

46.000 material kits for deploying the habitation ring ?  omg

[voicey99]

3 minutes ago, Phil Kerman said:

46.000 material kits for deploying the habitation ring ?  omg

I believe that's the equivalent weight to what you saved by launching the thing undeployed. IMO it's cheaper (just add moar boosters) and easier to simply launch it inflated.

[Phil Kerman]

5 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

I believe that's the equivalent weight to what you saved by launching the thing undeployed. IMO it's cheaper (just add moar boosters) and easier to simply launch it inflated.

Already thougt about constructing my ship in space. I want see it inflating in space  Time to make a plan, using my completed IOTA base ( after days of working on it, it has finally achieved the 100% "build what u want, it´s for free status )

[toric5]

3 hours ago, voicey99 said:

I believe that's the equivalent weight to what you saved by launching the thing undeployed. IMO it's cheaper (just add moar boosters) and easier to simply launch it inflated.

do the cost and mass not increase when you ship it inflated? that seems a bit odd.

[Rodger]

The Duna and both Tundra agriculture modules seem to have a problem with Cultivate(Dirt), it looks like the same resource converter as agroponics:

http://imgur.com/KzhBMPz

They also doesn't list Agriculture(Dirt) in the part info, though you can select it when you configure the bays in the VAB.

The Ranger agricultural inflatable does have Cultivate(Dirt) working correctly though.

I do have KPBStoMKS installed to add USI-LS to the KPBS parts, but I don't see how that could cause this. Any other ideas?

Edited April 8, 2017 by Rodger

[TauPhraim]

12 minutes ago, Rodger said:

I do have KPBStoMKS installed to add USI-LS to the KPBS parts, but I don't see how that could cause this. Any other ideas?

I don't have the problem here (no KPBStoMKS).

I'm not proficient enough with module manager to rule out KPBStoMKS causing the problem. You can check the MKS part file and see if it has the problem out of the box, or if it's some MM patch breaking it (GameData/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Parts/Duna_Agriculture.cfg).

[Rodger]

Just now, TauPhraim said:

I don't have the problem here (no KPBStoMKS).

I'm not proficient enough with module manager to rule out KPBStoMKS causing the problem. You can check the MKS part file and see if it has the problem out of the box, or if it's some MM patch breaking it (GameData/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Parts/Duna_Agriculture.cfg).

Yeah, the MKS part file looks fine, so does seem to be something MM related for sure, but as far as I can see none of the KPBStoMKS patches change vanilla MKS parts.

[jd284]

36 minutes ago, Rodger said:

Yeah, the MKS part file looks fine, so does seem to be something MM related for sure, but as far as I can see none of the KPBStoMKS patches change vanilla MKS parts.

The easiest way to debug this is to open the KSP.log file and look for lines with "Config(@PART[Tundra_Agriculture", in that line it tells you the MM cfg file that causes the modification.

[steve_v]

On 16/02/2017 at 1:01 AM, RoverDude said:

Unrelated, baked a modified version of @TheReadPanda 's TRP-Hire mod into MKS since he graciously granted me permission to use his stuff

I find this pretty immersion breaking, and frankly somewhat cheaty . How do I turn it off?

Edited April 8, 2017 by steve_v
AAAARGH, I HATE THIS EDITOR! KILL IT NOW!

[TDplay]

How're the automated transfers coming along? Also, will I be able to resupply orbital stations with that mechanic?

[Baladain]

22 hours ago, Gilph said:

You are correct...I never updated after that change went into effect. I'm still using 8 because I don't need to change it.

Add the fact that you need at least a 3.75 tank for silicates. Once the bonuses kick in, you will run out of tank space for catch up processing if you go smaller (in this version).

at what bonus level?  So far my silicate chain is fine with just an ISM

[RoverDude]

2 hours ago, steve_v said:

I find this pretty immersion breaking, and frankly somewhat cheaty . How do I turn it off?

Working on a major update for this today that will address this, and provide a few other new options and fixes.

1 hour ago, TDplay said:

How're the automated transfers coming along? Also, will I be able to resupply orbital stations with that mechanic?

coming along well - it's a pretty large system, and building the whole thing out using test driven development because of the complexity involved.  Yes, you will be able to supply an orbital station.  Heck, you will be able to have a miner on the surface of minmus feed a refinery in Kerbin orbit and transfer the finished goods to an orbital port around Duna and down to your colony on the surface.... and back again.

[Urses]

34 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

 Heck, you will be able to have a miner on the surface of minmus feed a refinery in Kerbin orbit and transfer the finished goods to an orbital port around Duna and down to your colony on the surface.... and back again.

This sounds overhelming. 

This look more and more like USI MK2 and not like "update"

(*notice on self :we never mention GPP ninjapost, we do not know anything nonono*)

Godspeed

Urses

[Gilph]

53 minutes ago, Baladain said:

at what bonus level?  So far my silicate chain is fine with just an ISM

Dont remember the stats when it happened, but I started OK with a 2.5 tank (4500). But at some point, my silicon production went a bit wonky, and it was because I ran out of silicates during catch up processing.  I changed a few things around and repainted another tank to have silicates (9000 total).

Today, even that is not enough.  My three bays of Silicon run at 1103% and uses 7280 silicates per 6 hours. But, I had to reduce the Machinery value from 2000 to 1300 in the Refinery to lower the load, otherwise, I would exceed the 9000 capacity.  My bonuses are 257/213/207 on Minimus and have a 3 star tech on board.  So, I've had to play balancing games with locking Machinery and measuring resource production so I have a good 6 hour window to keep catch up processing happy.

[TDplay]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

coming along well - it's a pretty large system, and building the whole thing out using test driven development because of the complexity involved.

Good. You know everyone's excited about it, don't you? Don't want to put pressure on you, but I'm anticipating the kind of things I can do with it.

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

Yes, you will be able to supply an orbital station.

Hooray! No more tedious resupply missions!

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

Heck, you will be able to have a miner on the surface of minmus feed a refinery in Kerbin orbit and transfer the finished goods to an orbital port around Duna and down to your colony on the surface.... and back again

Bit Eath Robinson

So... Will it be one-step only (e.g. only minmus to minmus orbit to kerbin orbit to duna orbit to ike orbit to ike) or all-in-one-go (e.g. minmus surface straight to ike)

[voicey99]

3 minutes ago, TDplay said:

Hooray! No more tedious resupply missions!

I'll still do them for B&S contracts.