Micro docking ports?

[DStaal]

I'm working on some reusable scanning probes for a planned Grand Tour, but I realized what I need to do is to separate the probe into two once I get it into an approximate position, then re-join them once I'm done scanning so I can recover them.

But, of course, since this is an extended mission size and mass matter a lot.

I've got several variations on the Jr-sized ports, but nothing smaller, and I've managed scanner probes a size smaller than that.  Anyone know of a parts pack that has something to match?  (And yes I know I could tweakscale or scale via an MM patch - but I avoid tweakscale on general principles and I'm hoping there's something out there that doesn't look like it's designed for a Kerbal to pass through.)

[Li0n]

I think this mod had some small docking port (~30cm). Keep in mind it will add a LOT of parts to your game.

[steedcrugeon]

15 hours ago, DStaal said:

But, of course, since this is an extended mission size and mass matter a lot.

I've got several variations on the Jr-sized ports, but nothing smaller, and I've managed scanner probes a size smaller than that.  Anyone know of a parts pack that has something to match?  (And yes I know I could tweakscale or scale via an MM patch - but I avoid tweakscale on general principles and I'm hoping there's something out there that doesn't look like it's designed for a Kerbal to pass through.)

I've been playing with docking ports recently. I can whip up a simple two-part mod for you if you like? any preference on whether or not it's orientation sensitive?

[HalcyonSon]

16 hours ago, DStaal said:

I've got several variations on the Jr-sized ports, but nothing smaller, and I've managed scanner probes a size smaller than that.  

Pics?  How do you manage anything smaller than Mk0 that includes a probe core?  Ant engines and the RCS thruster are smaller, but none of the fuel tanks are smaller than Mk0 scale.  

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, HalcyonSon said:

Pics?  How do you manage anything smaller than Mk0 that includes a probe core?  Ant engines and the RCS thruster are smaller, but none of the fuel tanks are smaller than Mk0 scale.  

Coatl Aerospace.   And quite probably a couple of other mods - I've  got lots installed.  Part of how I got it so small is knowing that I don't need more than ~300 d/v max on one portion - all it has to do is switch from low to high orbit, so a couple of small radial monoprop tanks are plenty of fuel.  (The other portion will need a bit more, as it will move the whole thing into the appropriate inclination around whatever body I'm planning on scanning - but it'll have more power than it needs for normal operation, so an ion engine will keep the fuel needs low.)

I'll see if I can get a pic in sometime - I've got a lot to do today.

6 hours ago, Li0n said:

I think this mod had some small docking port (~30cm). Keep in mind it will add a LOT of parts to your game.

I was just thinking about adding that pack.  I'll take a look.

1 hour ago, steedcrugeon said:

I've been playing with docking ports recently. I can whip up a simple two-part mod for you if you like? any preference on whether or not it's orientation sensitive?

Sounds good.    And my instinctive response is 'I don't care', but actually thinking about it, it would make sense to me for it to be more restricted in it's capabilities than a larger port, and for this use at least the *probes* will orientation sensitive.  (As they are unbalanced and need to do docking maneuvers - so they need to be lined up correctly so the RCS balances right.)  So, actually gendered and orientation sensitive works for me, even though I typically avoid gendered docking ports. 

[steedcrugeon]

11 minutes ago, DStaal said:

 So, actually gendered and orientation sensitive works for me, even though I typically avoid gendered docking ports. 

Actually thinking about it, I think it can be achieved with only a single part (non-gendered) thanks to the way the current 'docking module' works now. In my head i have envisioned a non-gendered docking port which can only mate at 90 degree orientations.

[DStaal]

That works. 

[HalcyonSon]

3 hours ago, steedcrugeon said:

Actually thinking about it, I think it can be achieved with only a single part (non-gendered) thanks to the way the current 'docking module' works now. In my head i have envisioned a non-gendered docking port which can only mate at 90 degree orientations.

I like the sound of that.  It can be a pain to get station ring components lined up perfectly when the stock docking ports allow mating at any orientation.

[linuxgurugamer]

5 hours ago, steedcrugeon said:

I've been playing with docking ports recently. I can whip up a simple two-part mod for you if you like? any preference on whether or not it's orientation sensitive?

Hey, do you thing you can make one or two which would go with e Octosat mod, I'm supporting?

Both gender neutral and gender specific would be nice

Edited January 10, 2017 by linuxgurugamer

[steedcrugeon]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Hey, do you thing you can make one or two which would go with e Octosat mod, I'm supporting?

Both gender neutral and gender specific would be nice

Okay, so on the back of this now I have started a 3 part mod for a very small (0.15 rad, half a size zero) docking port. hopefully should have something for you guys to test this weekend.

[DStaal]

2 hours ago, HalcyonSon said:

I like the sound of that.  It can be a pain to get station ring components lined up perfectly when the stock docking ports allow mating at any orientation.

Note that what we're talking about here would likely be way to small for station components.  If you want something station sized, try Near Future Construction - they've got some docking ports with orientation.  (And some without.)  And I can probably find two-three others fairly quickly for that.  (Konstruction, DSEV both have some, for instance...)

What I couldn't find is something for sub-octosat size probes.   

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, steedcrugeon said:

Okay, so on the back of this now I have started a 3 part mod for a very small (0.15 rad, half a size zero) docking port. hopefully should have something for you guys to test this weekend.

Cool. Are you going to release this separately, or would you like to bundle it with an existing mod?  

[DStaal]

And, just to show off (and for @HalcyonSon), here's what I'm planning on using this with:

As you can probably tell, the whole point of this probe is to deploy the SCANSat high-resolution terrain scanner.    I might be able to shrink that a bit - it's really got more monoprop than it's likely to need, for instance.  (But I like to leave *plenty* of margin docking maneuvers, which this will likely have to do twice: Once back to the main probe bus, and once (while attached) back to the main expedition vehicle.)

Some parts are minorly clipped together: the monoprop engines are visible under the mounts for the monoprop tanks, and there's a RCS port under the edge of that battery, to help balance docking maneuvers.

Edited January 11, 2017 by DStaal

[steedcrugeon]

6 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Cool. Are you going to release this separately, or would you like to bundle it with an existing mod?  

Planned to release separately under it's own mod (so people who wish to use it don't need to get a whole other mod) just a simple 3 part pack. Unless you think it would do better subsumed into the Octo-Sat (as this is where the need cam from?).

[linuxgurugamer]

4 hours ago, steedcrugeon said:

Planned to release separately under it's own mod (so people who wish to use it don't need to get a whole other mod) just a simple 3 part pack. Unless you think it would do better subsumed into the Octo-Sat (as this is where the need cam from?).

Either way.  If it gets integrated, then you don't need to maintain a mod, support will be done with Octosat. Also, I would be able to integrate/add the ability to change the skin the same way the rest of the mod does. If not, i'll just make it a suggested mod. 

[steedcrugeon]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Also, I would be able to integrate/add the ability to change the skin the same way the rest of the mod does. 

Does this mean that the current Octo-sat mod utilises multiple textures per model?

[linuxgurugamer]

7 minutes ago, steedcrugeon said:

Does this mean that the current Octo-sat mod utilises multiple textures per model?

It uses Firespitter for texture switches.  There are 8 different textures being used, in the NSS/TextureSwitch directory.  All identical except for the colors.  What's really nice about this mod is that all the parts use the same texture file.

For yours, I'd just use a new set of textures, and use Gimp to make the appropriate color files (unless you can do that for me).

Of course, you could do this yourself

[steedcrugeon]

@linuxgurugamer What would the rational be behind using multiple textures for the docking ports? would there need o be 8?

It wouldn't be to hard to create multiples (which would just be slight re-skins of the original).

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, steedcrugeon said:

@linuxgurugamer What would the rational be behind using multiple textures for the docking ports? would there need o be 8?

It wouldn't be to hard to create multiples (which would just be slight re-skins of the original).

Only one texture is used at a time, it would fit in with the rest of the Octosat mod.  Mainly a visual thing

[DStaal]

As a sidenote: Do note that I rejected the Octosat as *to big* for the probe above...

And, while they don't quite match the configuration, KSO has some docking ports that would work fairly nicely with Octosat.  I tried them for this, but even the small one is bigger across than the full tank-to-tank width of the probe.  (The small one being made to fit the stock truss segments.)

[HalcyonSon]

17 hours ago, DStaal said:

Note that what we're talking about here would likely be way to small for station components.  If you want something station sized, try Near Future Construction - they've got some docking ports with orientation.  (And some without.)  And I can probably find two-three others fairly quickly for that.  (Konstruction, DSEV both have some, for instance...)

What I couldn't find is something for sub-octosat size probes.   

Oh no, I got that.  Just thinking that the same problems may apply - specifically, getting antennas and solar panels to clear obstacles between components.  A five degree misalignment means nothing when they're retracted, but could cause major problems extended.

15 hours ago, DStaal said:

And, just to show off (and for @HalcyonSon), here's what I'm planning on using this with:

As you can probably tell, the whole point of this probe is to deploy the SCANSat high-resolution terrain scanner.    I might be able to shrink that a bit - it's really got more monoprop than it's likely to need, for instance.  (But I like to leave *plenty* of margin docking maneuvers, which this will likely have to do twice: Once back to the main probe bus, and once (while attached) back to the main expedition vehicle.)

Some parts are minorly clipped together: the monoprop engines are visible under the mounts for the monoprop tanks, and there's a RCS port under the edge of that battery, to help balance docking maneuvers.

What is that, the size of a shoebox!?  I don't think it's possible to build anything that small in stock.  

I don't have any mods yet that add parts - my computer struggles with stock game at times.

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, DStaal said:

As a sidenote: Do note that I rejected the Octosat as *to big* for the probe above...

And, while they don't quite match the configuration, KSO has some docking ports that would work fairly nicely with Octosat.  I tried them for this, but even the small one is bigger across than the full tank-to-tank width of the probe.  (The small one being made to fit the stock truss segments.)

Really?  Could you post a picture showing the size comparision between the smallest Octosat and your probe?  I'm curious, Octosat was designed as a modular, small sattelite e system

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Really?  Could you post a picture showing the size comparision between the smallest Octosat and your probe?  I'm curious, Octosat was designed as a modular, small sattelite e system

Here you go:

Admittedly, if the Octosat had a version of the terrain scanner in it's form factor, it'd be close.  But for the use I'm looking for I'd have to mount that scanner on the side of the octo, making it even bigger.

Oh, and just to mention: The part on the bottom (which I've tilted a bit so you can see better) is a KSO small docking port, round version.  Which is actually the same size as the Jr, in cross-section...

I am planning on having on this same grand-tour mission a set of octo-sat comm satellites which I'll leave behind as my comm-net, using the large antenna dish.  I could probably do a bit smaller than that, but not much with an equivalent relay.

 

[linuxgurugamer]

22 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Here you go:

Admittedly, if the Octosat had a version of the terrain scanner in it's form factor, it'd be close.  But for the use I'm looking for I'd have to mount that scanner on the side of the octo, making it even bigger.

Oh, and just to mention: The part on the bottom (which I've tilted a bit so you can see better) is a KSO small docking port, round version.  Which is actually the same size as the Jr, in cross-section...

I am planning on having on this same grand-tour mission a set of octo-sat comm satellites which I'll leave behind as my comm-net, using the large antenna dish.  I could probably do a bit smaller than that, but not much with an equivalent relay.

 

Ok, thanks.

So, is that some sort of cube sat mod you are using?

And I assume you are avoiding tweakscale

22 hours ago, HalcyonSon said:

I like the sound of that.  It can be a pain to get station ring components lined up perfectly when the stock docking ports allow mating at any orientation.

Take a look at TweakableEverything, it has a section for docking ports to do exactly that

Edited January 11, 2017 by linuxgurugamer

[DStaal]

Yep, no tweakscale.  Most of the parts (as I've said) are Coatl Areospace, which are parts inspired by real-world probes.