[1.8.x] Kerbal Foundries -- Continued - Tracks, Wheels, and Gear

[Krakatoa]

17 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

Is there a problem shifting wheels from one vehicle to another? I just assembled the below Buffalo with parts flown in, including the wheels that were attached around the outside of the K&K base hub in the background, as I didn't have internal storage space for 8 of these wheels. 

It's assembled and you can see the settings on the wheels, they look right to me. And it has plenty of EC, like 16k. However, I can't get the wheels to move. They DO make the left-right turning motions but they refuse to rotate to move the vehicle forward or backwards. I've tried toggling the brakes a bunch of time to make sure it isn't confused about brakes being on.

Only thing I could think of was somehow the wheels get confused moving from one vehicle to another?

I've had troubles with getting wheels to behave if "front" isn't in the direction you want to drive. Looking at your screenshot, "front" seems to be towards the ground, so maybe they didn't know what to do? Does it do the same thing if front is the correct direction?

[vossiewulf]

3 minutes ago, Krakatoa said:

I've had troubles with getting wheels to behave if "front" isn't in the direction you want to drive. Looking at your screenshot, "front" seems to be towards the ground, so maybe they didn't know what to do? Does it do the same thing if front is the correct direction?

You're saying I have them oriented the wrong direction? Didn't realize that. If so, then yes that's probably the problem. But what are you looking at for the right orientation, what is "front"? I thought I had them right.

[0111narwhalz]

7 minutes ago, Krakatoa said:

I've had troubles with getting wheels to behave if "front" isn't in the direction you want to drive. Looking at your screenshot, "front" seems to be towards the ground, so maybe they didn't know what to do? Does it do the same thing if front is the correct direction?

I've noticed the exact opposite, oddly enough. The wheels seem perfectly content to keep their own counsel as to which way is forward. You can see this by using a vehicle with directly contradictory "control from" points.

[Krakatoa]

23 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

You're saying I have them oriented the wrong direction? Didn't realize that. If so, then yes that's probably the problem. But what are you looking at for the right orientation, what is "front"? I thought I had them right.

Like, the place you are driving from. Your nav ball is all ground, like trying to use the stock rover body and how it's not lined up to let you use it alone. I've always had to add a docking port or something to the front of one so that I could use "control from here" to let me drive forwards. Your wheels are fine, it's that the cab doesn't seem to be the control point.

 

20 minutes ago, 0111narwhalz said:

I've noticed the exact opposite, oddly enough. The wheels seem perfectly content to keep their own counsel as to which way is forward. You can see this by using a vehicle with directly contradictory "control from" points.

In my experience, the wheels always know forwards for your control point, but if forwards isn't along the horizon, then they don't know how to drive into the ground or into the sky.

[vossiewulf]

1 hour ago, Krakatoa said:

Like, the place you are driving from. Your nav ball is all ground, like trying to use the stock rover body and how it's not lined up to let you use it alone. I've always had to add a docking port or something to the front of one so that I could use "control from here" to let me drive forwards. Your wheels are fine, it's that the cab doesn't seem to be the control point.

 

In my experience, the wheels always know forwards for your control point, but if forwards isn't along the horizon, then they don't know how to drive into the ground or into the sky.

Not sure what you mean about the cab, it's a standard Buffalo cab and it's oriented correctly with the chassis underneath, none of the Buffalo components were surface attached, all to correct nodes. And I've tried control from here several times. Now I'm trying shutting the game down to see if it's just confused for some reason.

[Shadowmage]

7 hours ago, lancefoxcia said:

Hey, I'm using the KF Long track for my tanks. But I see a bug that I don't know if you're aware of it.
This video I posted should show that it seems that the tracks kinda drift. Even if the brakes are turned on.

 

Likely related to spring stiffness on the wheels.  Try reducing the springs a bit; 0.3 seems to work well for lightly loaded setups.

The other possibility is joint instability, mounting light parts to heavy parts and vice-versa.  There are limits to what Unity joints can do, and KSP pushes those as far as it can (and can easily exceed them depending on craft design).

There is a bit of 'normal' drift with the wheels, but it should be barely noticeable if everything else is working, and mostly only effect craft that are parked on slopes.

 

5 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

Is there a problem shifting wheels from one vehicle to another? I just assembled the below Buffalo with parts flown in, including the wheels that were attached around the outside of the K&K base hub in the background, as I didn't have internal storage space for 8 of these wheels. 

It's assembled and you can see the settings on the wheels, they look right to me. And it has plenty of EC, like 16k. However, I can't get the wheels to move. They DO make the left-right turning motions but they refuse to rotate to move the vehicle forward or backwards. I've tried toggling the brakes a bunch of time to make sure it isn't confused about brakes being on.

Only thing I could think of was somehow the wheels get confused moving from one vehicle to another?

Hmm... there could be problems with transferring wheels.  The wheels calculate their spring/damper force limits from the vehicle mass they are attached to.

Does the problem persist across reloads of the scene?  (quick save then quick load)    In theory this should clean up any problems of incorrectly assigned mass or rigidbody.

 

5 hours ago, Krakatoa said:

 

In my experience, the wheels always know forwards for your control point, but if forwards isn't along the horizon, then they don't know how to drive into the ground or into the sky.

These wheels don't care about control points or craft orientation.  They use -themselves- as reference points to determine what direction is forward.  This is why you have to invert motors for the wheels on one side of the craft (mostly handled automatically in the editor).  They also don't care when you change control points -- once you setup the wheels for a specific 'forward' direction, it will always use that until you manually change their settings.

 

4 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

Now I'm trying shutting the game down to see if it's just confused for some reason.

Please let me know if that solves (or doesn't solve) the problem.  A reload should, in theory, clean up any misloaded references.

 

[vossiewulf]

4 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Hmm... there could be problems with transferring wheels.  The wheels calculate their spring/damper force limits from the vehicle mass they are attached to.

Does the problem persist across reloads of the scene?  (quick save then quick load)    In theory this should clean up any problems of incorrectly assigned mass or rigidbody.

Yes, it does, just tried that. They still refuse to move. When I flew them over I had problems with them turning and spinning the wheels with control input on the launch and transfer vehicles so I had to lock their motors and steering and... oh man I know exactly what the problem is.

(2 min later) Yes we all missed in the screeenshot that the motor limit was set to 0. Even when I locked the motor the damned things were still spinning in space flight so I set the motor limit to 0, that seemed to work. And then forgot about it when I was turning off the motor lock and steering lock. So that problem fixed, there was no problem they were just misconfigured... a sentence I get to say at work pretty regularly, #@%@#%#@#^ Global Network Services....

However I have a new and improved problem. I have no clue what is going on here. Forward and reverse just make it rotate. So does turning left and right for that matter, but forward and reverse acting like it's stuck on something.

 

[Shadowmage]

10 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

Forward and reverse just make it rotate. So does turning left and right for that matter, but forward and reverse acting like it's stuck on something.

Check the 'invert motor' settings on each of the wheels.  The wheels on the left should all use the same value.  The wheels on the right should also use the same value, opposite that of the left.

That should be about the only thing that would effect motor input that would cause steering problems.

 

 

[vossiewulf]

44 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Check the 'invert motor' settings on each of the wheels.  The wheels on the left should all use the same value.  The wheels on the right should also use the same value, opposite that of the left.

That should be about the only thing that would effect motor input that would cause steering problems.

 

 

Thanks, makes perfect sense, not sure why I hadn't noticed that before. Yep that fixed it.

[lancefoxcia]

12 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Likely related to spring stiffness on the wheels.  Try reducing the springs a bit; 0.3 seems to work well for lightly loaded setups.

The other possibility is joint instability, mounting light parts to heavy parts and vice-versa.  There are limits to what Unity joints can do, and KSP pushes those as far as it can (and can easily exceed them depending on craft design).

There is a bit of 'normal' drift with the wheels, but it should be barely noticeable if everything else is working, and mostly only effect craft that are parked on slopes.

 

Hmm... there could be problems with transferring wheels.  The wheels calculate their spring/damper force limits from the vehicle mass they are attached to.

Does the problem persist across reloads of the scene?  (quick save then quick load)    In theory this should clean up any problems of incorrectly assigned mass or rigidbody.

 

These wheels don't care about control points or craft orientation.  They use -themselves- as reference points to determine what direction is forward.  This is why you have to invert motors for the wheels on one side of the craft (mostly handled automatically in the editor).  They also don't care when you change control points -- once you setup the wheels for a specific 'forward' direction, it will always use that until you manually change their settings.

 

Please let me know if that solves (or doesn't solve) the problem.  A reload should, in theory, clean up any misloaded references.

 

Hey, I figured out why now. It's because I didn't have the updated version of Kerbal Joint reinforcement.
 

[vossiewulf]

29 minutes ago, lancefoxcia said:

Hey, I figured out why now. It's because I didn't have the updated version of Kerbal Joint reinforcement.
 

Trying to get everything working right in a heavily-modded KSP install is literally like herding kittens.

[lancefoxcia]

4 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

Trying to get everything working right in a heavily-modded KSP install is literally like herding kittens.

Yep
 

Spoiler

 

[Rodger]

For people who miss the black texture option on the Adjustable Landing Gear, I've added black textures for them to my black textures mod:

https://spacedock.info/mod/1478/Back In Black
(And you'll need to download the mod compatibility component too)
https://spacedock.info/mod/1498/Back In Black Mods texture pack

It's not the original black textures, it's one I've made to be in-line with the rest of my mod, but it should still do the job

[Shadowmage]

6 hours ago, Rodger said:

For people who miss the black texture option on the Adjustable Landing Gear, I've added black textures for them to my black textures mod:

https://spacedock.info/mod/1478/Back In Black
(And you'll need to download the mod compatibility component too)
https://spacedock.info/mod/1498/Back In Black Mods texture pack

It's not the original black textures, it's one I've made to be in-line with the rest of my mod, but it should still do the job

Very nice, I approve   (mostly as now I don't feel as much pressure to do them myself).

Mind if I link back to the mod in the OP, and is there a forum thread for it I can link to?

[Rodger]

11 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Very nice, I approve   (mostly as now I don't feel as much pressure to do them myself).

Mind if I link back to the mod in the OP, and is there a forum thread for it I can link to?

Sure! Forum link is 

 

[Arvolder]

1.3.1 is out

Hi there

I started the game a few hours ago and I realised that it crashed just after the loading bar. I took off the KSPWheels folder and it now works. The plugin might be incompatible with ksp 1.3.1.

Hope you will see this message.

[0111narwhalz]

3 hours ago, Arvolder said:

1.3.1 is out

Hi there

I started the game a few hours ago and I realised that it crashed just after the loading bar. I took off the KSPWheels folder and it now works. The plugin might be incompatible with ksp 1.3.1.

Hope you will see this message.

I believe there was a signature change in one of the methods relating to difficulty option localization.

It's a simple fix; just a recompile and maybe a single-line change. If I wasn't away from my computer as I am, I'd probably try it myself.

[Shadowmage]

5 hours ago, Arvolder said:

1.3.1 is out

Hi there

I started the game a few hours ago and I realised that it crashed just after the loading bar. I took off the KSPWheels folder and it now works. The plugin might be incompatible with ksp 1.3.1.

Hope you will see this message.

 

1 hour ago, 0111narwhalz said:

I believe there was a signature change in one of the methods relating to difficulty option localization.

It's a simple fix; just a recompile and maybe a single-line change. If I wasn't away from my computer as I am, I'd probably try it myself.

 

What @0111narwhalz said ^^^

 

(e.g. I'll recompile for 1.3.1 when I get time; as work is @#%^#$&^@ stupid lately, it might take awhile)

[Shadowmage]

1.3.1 Info:

Official 1.3.1 update will (hopefully) be done this weekend (10-07-17 <-> 10-09-17).  Will be a simple recompile to get things working under the new KSP version, should not have any other changes in it.

[Shadowmage]

Updated release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/releases/tag/2.1.2.11

Simple recompile of KSPWheel for 1.3.1 + repackage.

[Jimbodiah]

Were the landing legs removed at some point, I can't find them anymore?

[Shadowmage]

On 10/21/2017 at 8:22 AM, Jimbodiah said:

Were the landing legs removed at some point, I can't find them anymore?

Should still be 3 variants of landing leg available.  I'll try and do a check on the distribution to make sure they are still there.

Edit:
Configs seem to be still in place:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/blob/master/GameData/KerbalFoundries/Parts/KF-LegTruck.cfg
https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/blob/master/GameData/KerbalFoundries/Parts/KF-LegSimple.cfg
https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/blob/master/GameData/KerbalFoundries/Parts/KF-LegLarge.cfg

Edited October 23, 2017 by Shadowmage

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Just now, Shadowmage said:

Should still be 3 variants of landing leg available.  I'll try and do a check on the distribution to make sure they are still there.

Hi, downloaded a fresh one last night, all parts are indeed  present and correct in last available release.

 

[Jimbodiah]

Weird... I'll check on my end... thanks for checking!!

[captinjoehenry]

Oh man I am super happy that I reinstalled this mod.  Now that I have it installed I am very happy to see that the adjustable landing gear is no longer in league with the Kraken!  This is great news as they are exactly what I needed for my newest super spaceplane.  Keep up the great work and it's fantastic to see  this fully functional since I last used this about a year ago and it's fantastic that it's working perfectly now.