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[1.12.x] Near Future Technologies (September 6)

Nertea

By Nertea
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FeliusKerNes

FeliusKerNes

Posted
Posted

Are there plans to rebuild Near Future Aeronautics in the near future (pun not intended)? Not asking for a specific time table or anything like that, just if it is a "I plan to tackle it when I have some time" or a "No plans about it, but I might perhaps look into it again if the mood ever strikes me at some undisclosed point in the future"?

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ISOREX_

ISOREX_

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Posted
On 7/24/2019 at 7:13 PM, Nertea said:

It still works in the current release version.

I currently have no plans to fix it anytime soon. Next window is probably September area, sorry.

Huh, stupid that I didn't even think to try it first. I guess if it does actually work there's no rush in updating the mod.

Thanks for the reply

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Jognt

Jognt

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NF Aeronautics would require a lot of work afaik due to the missing files. 

I think you’d have to bribe Nertea with a lot of coffee to make it worth the trouble he’ll get with his spouse if he were to spend that time on it :D

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Jognt

Jognt

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2 hours ago, anarchopride said:

I updated Kopernicus.

If even the stock panels don’t work anymore then it’s probably something incorrect with your install :/ 

There’s not much the NF suite can do about that.

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anarchopride

anarchopride

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Jognt said:

If even the stock panels don’t work anymore then it’s probably something incorrect with your install :/ 

There’s not much the NF suite can do about that.

Ok, so is reinstall Kopernicus and see if it work.

Greetings, Rob

EDIT: Reinstall worked

Edited by anarchopride
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Nertea

Nertea

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Near Future Launch Vehicles 1.2.0

  • Updated B9PartSwitch to 2.9.0
  • Made use of B9PartSwitch 2.9.0 features in several parts (UI colours, tooltips)
  • Rework of advanced LFO engines
    • Repainted textures, cleaned up some model elements
    • Added Vulcan-inspired boattail option to BE-4-alike engine
    • Uses new LCH4 colour scheme (white/green-based)
    • Added autoshouds to ring/compact variants
    • Now use the new Restock-like emissives/heat animation method
    • Modified model numbers to consolidate them in the patch list
  • Added new Extras package: CryoEnginesMethalox
    • Converts the mod's LFO engines to use LCH4/OX, for about a 30s Isp bonus
    • Requires CRP and CryoTanks >= 1.2.0
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AmpCat

AmpCat

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@Nertea, small bug in the latest cryo engines. The atmospheric white contrails from the Fuji engines spew 90 degrees out from the main exhaust, rather than straight down. In vacuum you can't see these particles.

7 hours ago, Nertea said:

Converts the mod's LFO engines to use LCH4/OX, for about a 30s Isp bonus

I thought we were avoiding new fuels with just a small incremental benefit? ;) 

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SuppaTenko

SuppaTenko

Posted
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On 7/30/2019 at 10:50 PM, Nertea said:

CryoEnginesMethalox

Cool! I want to test it because I have enough classic LF/OX engines mods and need something a bit different for fun. But which tanks should I use with this pack? I have ModularfuelTanks, CRP and CryoTanks. How can I enable this fuel type? I guess, I need to make my custom MFT configs for cryo tanks or install B9 Fuel Switch and Superior Propellants, am I right?

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AmpCat

AmpCat

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@Nertea, I was thinking about the centrifuge parts and I was wondering if in reality a centrifuge could be used as a real heavy duty single axis gyroscope? You'd of course have to figure out how to desaturate it, I suppose, and it might make it hard to maneuver the vessel about other axis while its rotating. But I don't remember my physics enough to know if the counter-rotating weight would counteract that or maybe even help out with maneuvering. Any thoughts?

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KSPrynk

KSPrynk

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 7/30/2019 at 11:39 PM, AmpCat said:

@Nertea, small bug in the latest cryo engines. The atmospheric white contrails from the Fuji engines spew 90 degrees out from the main exhaust, rather than straight down. In vacuum you can't see these particles.

I thought we were avoiding new fuels with just a small incremental benefit? ;) 

I'm actually glad for the combination of CryoEngines, with the CE ReStock patch to convert the Vector and a few others to LH2-Ox, and this latest mod for Methalox.  I was trying to mentally justify arbitrary selection of Raptor and BE-4 equivalents from the LFO pile for my New Glenn and Starship analogues, and I can also make a 3.75m SLS that actually runs on the right fuel as well.

If anything, I vote for expanding the LCH4 selection at some point in the future.  I think there's a lot of source material to build off of.  LandSpace in China is building the TQ-12, there was Morpheus doing a lander engine a while back, and USAF might still pick up a "mini-Raptor" for a Falcon Heavy upper stage (since they helped pay for it....)  Starship and Morpheus also have RCS that runs on the same fuel.

In the near term, if there's going to be a NFLV 1.2.1 imminent, may I suggest adding a patch in the Methalox Extra to allow the 1.25m and 2.5m ISRUs to have an additional LCH4 and LCH4-Ox selection option, to complement the CryoTanks LH2 ISRU patch?  If we're going to build Starships, getting off Duna is going to need ISRU....

Edited by KSPrynk
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AmpCat

AmpCat

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Posted

My comment was mostly a joke based on a previous post by Nertea a while back on not wanting to add new resources and fuels just for variety's sake, if they don't add significant advantages or trade-offs.

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Lisias

Lisias

Posted
Posted
On 7/10/2019 at 7:36 PM, Marcelo Silveira said:

Does anyone wants a TweakScale patch for the new solar panels? 


//
@PART[nfs-panel*]:NEEDS[TweakScale]:FOR[TweakScale]
{
	%MODULE[TweakScale]
	{
		type = free_square
	}
}

the new naming system makes things a lot easier

Hi! TweakScale maintainer here.

Nice patch. But may I give a suggestion? Do not use ":FOR" in your patches. This ":FOR" thingy are how we say "this is a default patch from TweakScale that should be applied first", while ":NEEDS" says "I'm a part that needs TweakScale fully initialized before me so I can use it without glitches".

I would also change "type" to "%type", so in the event someone else apply a patch for TweakScale to the same part, the part would not be double patched, what will trigger the "Houston" message on TweakScale 2.4.3.0 and newer.

Cheers!

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Nertea

Nertea

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On 7/30/2019 at 8:39 PM, AmpCat said:

@Nertea, small bug in the latest cryo engines. The atmospheric white contrails from the Fuji engines spew 90 degrees out from the main exhaust, rather than straight down. In vacuum you can't see these particles.

 

I did fix this, but just a gentle reminder that a GitHub issue is the best way to track things so I don't forget, and barring that, putting the post in the correct forum thread really helps things avoid getting missed. 

On 7/31/2019 at 6:44 PM, SuppaTenko said:

Cool! I want to test it because I have enough classic LF/OX engines mods and need something a bit different for fun. But which tanks should I use with this pack? I have ModularfuelTanks, CRP and CryoTanks. How can I enable this fuel type? I guess, I need to make my custom MFT configs for cryo tanks or install B9 Fuel Switch and Superior Propellants, am I right?

If you're using MFT, CryoTanks will take a bow and defer its functionality. You will need to define an appropriate MFT support patch (don't ask me how, I don't know :P) to have the tanks hold methalox. 

If you just have CryoTanks installed and you drop in the new NFLV extras patch, you will automatically get usable tankage. 

On 8/1/2019 at 5:26 PM, KSPrynk said:

If anything, I vote for expanding the LCH4 selection at some point in the future.  I think there's a lot of source material to build off of.  LandSpace in China is building the TQ-12, there was Morpheus doing a lander engine a while back, and USAF might still pick up a "mini-Raptor" for a Falcon Heavy upper stage (since they helped pay for it....)  Starship and Morpheus also have RCS that runs on the same fuel.

I'm involved in this bit of the project due to strong interest from a few people. I felt like it was only a matter of time before a lot of people start being very interested in LCH4 burning engines and I thing it's important to be involved in creating a community standard for balancing mass and cost fractions. As it's in Extras, it doesn't get first party status in my mods (and after the CryoEngines push I have no interest in modeling engines anymore). So, there will be no additional dedicated models. 

On 8/1/2019 at 5:26 PM, KSPrynk said:

In the near term, if there's going to be a NFLV 1.2.1 imminent, may I suggest adding a patch in the Methalox Extra to allow the 1.25m and 2.5m ISRUs to have an additional LCH4 and LCH4-Ox selection option, to complement the CryoTanks LH2 ISRU patch?  If we're going to build Starships, getting off Duna is going to need ISRU....

This makes more sense to live in CryoTanks that actually provides the tankage support. I will do something in the next release there. 

 

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Wyzard

Wyzard

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Nertea said:

I felt like it was only a matter of time before a lot of people start being very interested in LCH4 burning engines and I thing it's important to be involved in creating a community standard for balancing mass and cost fractions. As it's in Extras, it doesn't get first party status in my mods (and after the CryoEngines push I have no interest in modeling engines anymore). So, there will be no additional dedicated models.

I haven't tried out the methalox engines yet (too early in my career game), but I'm very interested in having the new fuel available as a middle ground between LF and LH2.  However, converting existing engines to use it brings a flip side: fewer engine options for a particular type of fuel.

Have you thought about making some engines dual-mode, with LF/LCH4 or LCH4/LH2 as options?  That'd allow you to offer a broader selection of LCH4 engines without having to make new models or encroach too much on the engine selection for other fuels.  (Of course, there still ought to be some LCH4-only engines.)

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SuppaTenko

SuppaTenko

Posted
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3 hours ago, Nertea said:

You will need to define an appropriate MFT support patch (don't ask me how, I don't know :P) to have the tanks hold methalox.

Ok. Thank you for explanation. Just read engine configs. I assume the ratio is 3 parts LqM to 1 part Ox. For example - I need 150 ox for 450 lqm... i don't know how to maintain this ratio by default in MFT but I made this quick and dirty patch. It will add Liquid Methane to all default tanks with MFT support. Save it as Cool_Methane_Patch_for_MFT.cfg and put it somewhere inside gamedata\MyAwesomeMods.

Spoiler 

@TANK_DEFINITION[Default]:NEEDS[ModularFuelTanks&!RealFuels]:FOR[CryoTanksMethalox]
{	
    TANK
    {
        name = LqdMethane
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = 0
    }
}

@TANK_DEFINITION[Fuselage]:NEEDS[ModularFuelTanks&!RealFuels]:FOR[CryoTanksMethalox]
{
    TANK
    {
        name = LqdMethane
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = 0
    }
}

@TANK_DEFINITION[Structural]:NEEDS[ModularFuelTanks&!RealFuels]:FOR[CryoTanksMethalox]
{
    TANK
    {
        name = LqdMethane
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = 0
    }
}

@TANK_DEFINITION[ServiceModule]:NEEDS[ModularFuelTanks&!RealFuels]:FOR[CryoTanksMethalox]
{
    TANK
    {
        name = LqdMethane
        amount = 0
        maxAmount = 0
    }
}

 

This is NOT balanced. NOT well-tested. I can't do it properly myself just now because my current KSP rig is extremely slow. So this is just for quick test. But it works good.

Some screenshots (on my server):

Spoiler

http://89.223.37.135/dl/001.png
http://89.223.37.135/dl/002.png
http://89.223.37.135/dl/003.png
http://89.223.37.135/dl/004.png
http://89.223.37.135/dl/005.png

 

On 7/26/2019 at 8:16 PM, Nertea said:

Similar mass ratio to Liquid Fuel (9)

Do i need to change fuel utilization constant in MFT? Or mass constant? For example, LH2 utilization ratio is 10. So if my tank stores 100 LF - then it can hold 1000 LH2.

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Friznit

Friznit

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Posted
8 hours ago, Wyzard said:

Have you thought about making some engines dual-mode, with LF/LCH4 or LCH4/LH2 as options?  That'd allow you to offer a broader selection of LCH4 engines without having to make new models or encroach too much on the engine selection for other fuels.  (Of course, there still ought to be some LCH4-only engines.)

I believe there is some work in progress in B9PS which should hopefully unlock the ability to support multiple fuel types on an engine, which will be neater than the current workaround (i.e. hacking around the multimode engine feature).  In the meantime, the easiest approach is to knock up a quick MM config to replicate the engine with +PART and add your fuel of choice.

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Nertea

Nertea

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14 hours ago, SuppaTenko said:

Do i need to change fuel utilization constant in MFT? Or mass constant? For example, LH2 utilization ratio is 10. So if my tank stores 100 LF - then it can hold 1000 LH2.

Maybe? I have targeted the LCH4 fuel type to have the same mass ratio as LF and O (9). By contrast LH2 is 6. I doubt MFT naturally lines up with those numbers. 

14 hours ago, Wyzard said:

Have you thought about making some engines dual-mode, with LF/LCH4 or LCH4/LH2 as options?  That'd allow you to offer a broader selection of LCH4 engines without having to make new models or encroach too much on the engine selection for other fuels.  (Of course, there still ought to be some LCH4-only engines.)

I don't particularly like doing multimode engines like that, particularly chemical ones. They wouldn't be switchable without a lot of reengineering in real life - it has happened a few times (RL10, RS18 were both reworked to burn methane but it was both suboptimal and nontrivial), and I have a *thing* about functionality mirroring looks. The LF/LH2 switched Nerv is the only one I've really done with great reluctance. I'm comfortable affecting these engines in this way because the NFLV engines were always a bonus thing that were borderline overpowered (and this is an extra anyways). I don't think in this case we take anything away from the LFO lineup. Where this is a problem, realistically, is when you start comparing LFO to LH2O engines. Convert the 'realistically' LH2 engines in KSP and you just lost all the 3.75m lineup and a few things in the smaller lineups. If I were to make more engines, I would try to work on putting effort into solving that - alternate Skipper, Skiff, Mammoth, Vector, Rhino, Corgi that were based on something reality-grounded that isn't LH2-based. 

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