[1.12.x] Near Future Technologies (September 6)

[sturmhauke]

1 hour ago, NHunter said:

Technically, IntakeAir would be a subset of IntakeAtm (being "atmosphere with Oxygen").

I guess, IntakeAtm was introduced to make engines that use atmosphere as a propellant and don't rely on fuel combustion (propellers, nuclear jets) work properly in places like Duna or Eve.

Hmm, yeah that makes sense. I played around a bit with the nuke jets, those things are insane.

[Nertea]

23 hours ago, sturmhauke said:

What's the deal with IntakeAtm vs. IntakeAir? I gather that it has something to do with the Community Resource Pack, but aren't they representing the same thing?

@NHunter is correct.

On 9/26/2018 at 4:28 AM, eberkain said:

So in the VAB my hex truss has EC, but the one I delivered to my station does not...   Any way to fix this without taking another one? 

 

This showed up a few times in the past. We had I think in those cases reduced it to a mod interaction.

[eberkain]

11 minutes ago, Nertea said:

@NHunter is correct.

This showed up a few times in the past. We had I think in those cases reduced it to a mod interaction.

It did indeed return after a save/reload as @Streetwind suggested.   Its a weird bug.  

[sturmhauke]

I found a bug when switching between fuel tank settings on the LV-601-4 Orbital Maneuvering Engine Cluster. Sometimes when you do this, the context menu fills up with multiple instances of Monoprop level bars and other weirdness. The most reliable way to reproduce is to set mirror symmetry on, place the engines, then go straight to the fuel tank switch.

Also possibly related: several parts that have alternate meshes seem to have a tendency to display all of them at once when first placing the part. Cycling through the relevant setting seems to fix it.

screenshot:

Spoiler

 

 

output_log.txt segment:

Quote

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

DragCubeSystem: Part 'orbital-engine-375' has defined a procedural drag cube setup
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

[Part orbital-engine-375] [ModuleB9PartSwitch 'meshSwitch'] Switched subtype to Integrated
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

[Part orbital-engine-375] [ModuleB9PartSwitch 'meshSwitch'] Switched subtype to 2.5m
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/DebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 51)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at UIPartActionResourceItem.SetSymCounterpartsAmount (Double amount) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UIPartActionResourceEditor.OnSliderChanged (Single obj) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UIPartActionResourceEditor.Setup (.UIPartActionWindow window, .Part part, UI_Scene scene, .UI_Control control, .PartResource resource) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UIPartActionWindow.AddResourceEditorControl (.PartResource r) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UIPartActionWindow.SetupResourceControls (.PartResource r, Boolean clearFirst, UI_Scene scene, System.Int32& controlIndex) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UIPartActionWindow.CreatePartList (Boolean clearFirst) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UIPartActionWindow.UpdateWindow () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UIPartActionController.UpdateActiveWindows () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UIPartActionController.UpdateEditor () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UIPartActionController.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

Edited September 29, 2018 by sturmhauke
formatting

[Nertea]

7 hours ago, sturmhauke said:

I found a bug when switching between fuel tank settings on the LV-601-4 Orbital Maneuvering Engine Cluster. Sometimes when you do this, the context menu fills up with multiple instances of Monoprop level bars and other weirdness. The most reliable way to reproduce is to set mirror symmetry on, place the engines, then go straight to the fuel tank switch.

Also possibly related: several parts that have alternate meshes seem to have a tendency to display all of them at once when first placing the part. Cycling through the relevant setting seems to fix it.

screenshot:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

output_log.txt segment:

Never seen that before and I use a lot of switching in all my mods. Are there any other switchers misbehaving?

[sturmhauke]

52 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Never seen that before and I use a lot of switching in all my mods. Are there any other switchers misbehaving?

Not that I've seen.

[Jesusthebird]

 NF-Aero Intakes!! WOOOOT!

[pyro1997]

Is the CoM for the nuclear engines in the Aeronautics Pack meant to be outside the engines?

[Streetwind]

@pyro1997 Yes, it is. Most if not all atmospheric jet engines have their CoM artificially shifted forward - including those of stock KSP. This is because the part you can see (and attach) is actually just the nozzle. And the mass of a jet engine is definitely not concentrated in the nozzle.

Squad at one point experimented with adding the actual turbine section to the models, so that players could see their true size and shape. It would clip inside the plane's body when attached. But ultimately, the playerbase was in favor of keeping the jet engines nozzle-only, as the large turbine sections would make VTOLs and other designs in need of compact engine arrangements practically impossible.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Streetwind

[pyro1997]

@Streetwind I suppose that makes sense, I hadn't thought of that! Thanks!

[SpaceMouse]

On 10/8/2018 at 5:00 AM, Streetwind said:

@pyro1997 Yes, it is. Most if not all atmospheric jet engines have their CoM artificially shifted forward - including those of stock KSP. This is because the part you can see (and attach) is actually just the nozzle. And the mass of a jet engine is definitely not concentrated in the nozzle.

Squad at one point experimented with adding the actual turbine section to the models, so that players could see their true size and shape. It would clip inside the plane's body when attached. But ultimately, the playerbase was in favor of keeping the jet engines nozzle-only, as the large turbine sections would make VTOLs and other designs in need of compact engine arrangements practically impossible.

I always wondered why the jets were just a tiny portion of a actual jet. Makes sense. not hard to put a empty tank in front of it anyway.

[RocketSquid]

I can't find a long enough runway for my Eeloo-based spaceplane to take off. I think I'm going to have to make it a seaplane, or a vtol.

[sturmhauke]

14 minutes ago, RocketSquid said:

I can't find a long enough runway for my Eeloo-based spaceplane to take off. I think I'm going to have to make it a seaplane, or a vtol.

You just need more lift. I made this the other day:

Spoiler

Now, mine probably also needs more lift (among other things), but it does take off before reaching the end of the runway. Besides, in my experience sea/spaceplane hybrids are much more difficult, as they have somewhat contradictory requirements. You need a ton of lift to overcome the water drag (sitting higher in the water helps), but that means more atmospheric drag and dead weight when you're trying to reach orbital speeds.

Edited October 9, 2018 by sturmhauke
clarification

[RocketSquid]

7 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

You just need more lift. I made this the other day:

  Hide contents

Now, mine probably also needs more lift (among other things), but it does take off before reaching the end of the runway. Besides, in my experience sea/spaceplane hybrids are much more difficult, as they have somewhat contradictory requirements. You need a ton of lift to overcome the water drag (sitting higher in the water helps), but that means more atmospheric drag and dead weight when you're trying to reach orbital speeds.

The seaplane thing was half joking, what I really need to do is get the Mk4 parts pack. I'd like to make a nuclear zeppelin at some point, but that's mostly just for fun.

[Cyrious]

Are there any particular requirements to transferring nuclear fuel from one container/part to another (Ex Whirlijig to 2.5M fuel drum on another section of the station) other than the heat requirement? I'm trying to pull a small bit of nuclear fuel out of some Whirlijigs attached to my station to put them into the storage drums, but doing the right-click on the reprocessor then left-click on the target part is not working (not even going from one reprocessor to another). I click on the MF-2 nuclear fuel drum I want the fuel to go to, but it wont do anything. If i click on any of the other parts or into empty space, it will give the "no valid target selected, exiting mode" excuse. Yes, there is an engineer onboard, he's lv2.

I'm hoping its not a mod interaction preventing it from happening (I have USI's reactor pack and Kontainers also installed), as I have a couple of smaller craft running about with USI reactors instead of NFT Reactors onboard.

 

Edit: did a little bit of pad experimenting, I can transfer nuclear fuel freely between containers, both USI and NFT containers, but not more active parts (Reactors and the reprocessor). Anything transferred to the reactors or reprocessor then refuses to leave/go to the container it just got pulled from, even if they're stone cold.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Cyrious

[juanml82]

26 minutes ago, Cyrious said:

Are there any particular requirements to transferring nuclear fuel from one container/part to another (Ex Whirlijig to 2.5M fuel drum on another section of the station) other than the heat requirement? I'm trying to pull a small bit of nuclear fuel out of some Whirlijigs attached to my station to put them into the storage drums, but doing the right-click on the reprocessor then left-click on the target part is not working (not even going from one reprocessor to another). I click on the MF-2 nuclear fuel drum I want the fuel to go to, but it wont do anything. If i click on any of the other parts or into empty space, it will give the "no valid target selected, exiting mode" excuse. Yes, there is an engineer onboard, he's lv2.

I'm hoping its not a mod interaction preventing it from happening (I have USI's reactor pack and Kontainers also installed), as I have a couple of smaller craft running about with USI reactors instead of NFT Reactors onboard.

 

Edit: did a little bit of pad experimenting, I can transfer nuclear fuel freely between containers, both USI and NFT containers, but not more active parts (Reactors and the reprocessor). Anything transferred to the reactors or reprocessor then refuses to leave/go to the container it just got pulled from, even if they're stone cold.

IIRC you need an engineer on board

[Cyrious]

Just now, juanml82 said:

IIRC you need an engineer on board

Re-read my post. There is an engineer on board, both for the station and for the ground-testing. And like i said, I can transfer between containers freely, but active components will not release any enriched uranium they have or get, only take it. If it was just reactors not releasing their Enriched Uranium I would understand, but the Whirlijig not doing it is an issue I need rectified

[NHunter]

11 minutes ago, Cyrious said:

Re-read my post. There is an engineer on board, both for the station and for the ground-testing. And like i said, I can transfer between containers freely, but active components will not release any enriched uranium they have or get, only take it. If it was just reactors not releasing their Enriched Uranium I would understand, but the Whirlijig not doing it is an issue I need rectified

AFAIR, you need engineer on EVA to transfer from reactors.

[Cyrious]

12 minutes ago, NHunter said:

AFAIR, you need engineer on EVA to transfer from reactors.

Ground testing trying that only gives "Repair Reactor" for either NFT or USI reactors, and any clicking on a container while on EVA with an engineer does not give a context menu or a prompt at all.

Edit: and trying to extract fuel from the whirlijigs on the fuel station via EVA had no effect either, as I got no menu or prompt as well.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Cyrious

[NHunter]

4 minutes ago, Cyrious said:

Ground testing trying that only gives "Repair Reactor" for either NFT or USI reactors, and any clicking on a container while on EVA with an engineer does not give a context menu or a prompt at all.

Guess, I was remembering things wrongly then.

And I can't really boot the game up right now, so any testing on my side will have to wait till tomorrow... Still, taking a peek at an NFE part's code:

	MODULE
	{
		name = RadioactiveStorageContainer
		DangerousFuel = DepletedFuel
		SafeFuel = EnrichedUranium
		// What enginer level is needed to transfer the safe fuel
		EngineerLevelForSafe = 1
		// What enginer level is needed to transfer the dangerous fuel
		EngineerLevelForDangerous = 3
		// Max temp for transferring fuel into or out of the part
		MaxTempForTransfer = 400
		// kW of heat per unit of waste
		HeatFluxPerWasteUnit = 5
	}

If I read this right, you need lvl1 engineer to transfer enriched fuel and lvl3 engineer to transfer depleted fuel. Do you actually have an engineer of appropriate level?

On the second thought, "nuclear fuel tanks" have same module. Perhaps something might have broken in transfer logic after all...

[Cyrious]

5 minutes ago, NHunter said:

Guess, I was remembering things wrongly then.

And I can't really boot the game up right now, so any testing on my side will have to wait till tomorrow... Still, taking a peek at an NFE part's code:

	MODULE
	{
		name = RadioactiveStorageContainer
		DangerousFuel = DepletedFuel
		SafeFuel = EnrichedUranium
		// What enginer level is needed to transfer the safe fuel
		EngineerLevelForSafe = 1
		// What enginer level is needed to transfer the dangerous fuel
		EngineerLevelForDangerous = 3
		// Max temp for transferring fuel into or out of the part
		MaxTempForTransfer = 400
		// kW of heat per unit of waste
		HeatFluxPerWasteUnit = 5
	}

If I read this right, you need lvl1 engineer to transfer enriched fuel and lvl3 engineer to transfer depleted fuel. Do you actually have an engineer of appropriate level?

On the second thought, "nuclear fuel tanks" have same module. Perhaps something might have broken in transfer logic after all...

Yeah I saw that when I was digging through my own files. In my main career file I had a lv2 engineer for both space and ground attempts, and since I'm only trying to move Enriched Uranium around its not that big of a deal he's not lv3. I've also tried in a sandbox save I have specifically for when something needs testing/has gone wrong, and using a LV5 engineer there has produced the exact same results.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Cyrious

[Cyrious]

I suppose a quick and dirty fix would be to go into the CommonResources.cfg file in Community Resource Pack and set both Depleted and Enriched Uranium transfer modes to Pump instead of None, but that does have the potential to horrifically break something. Kinda dont want to blow up or otherwise ruin a rather expensive space station.

 

Edit: Did some more experimenting, the switching transfer to Pump works for Enriched Uranium. Also, for some reason, instead of using Depleted Uranium for waste fuel, its using Depleted Fuel for the waste, which is under KSPI-E in the CommonResources.cfg, and I know I dont have Interstellar installed.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Cyrious

[Streetwind]

7 hours ago, Cyrious said:

Also, for some reason, instead of using Depleted Uranium for waste fuel, its using Depleted Fuel for the waste, which is under KSPI-E in the CommonResources.cfg, and I know I dont have Interstellar installed.

Community Resource Pack allows any mod to use any resource in it. The sections in the config only describe which mod primarily curates that resource (i.e. which mod maker decides the parameters like density and such). I admit that I didn't really pay attention, but perhaps Nertea just decided to go with the KSPI-curated waste product?

[NHunter]

7 hours ago, Cyrious said:

Edit: Did some more experimenting, the switching transfer to Pump works for Enriched Uranium. Also, for some reason, instead of using Depleted Uranium for waste fuel, its using Depleted Fuel for the waste, which is under KSPI-E in the CommonResources.cfg, and I know I dont have Interstellar installed.

Ah, right, KSPI-E, that's where I must be remembering the on EVA thing from (unless you don't need it even there. Quite honestly, I never got to play KSPI-E all that much, and that was awhile ago)

Anyway, I finally got to run some tests this morning, and in the sandbox mode everything had worked fine. The problem is likely somewhere on your side, @Cyrious. Check your install for rogue configs, it looks like you have one somewhere that is screwing you up.

[Nertea]

On 9/29/2018 at 11:00 AM, sturmhauke said:

Not that I've seen.

Just so you know I haven't forgotten, keeping an eye on it even though I can't reproduce it.

22 hours ago, Cyrious said:

Are there any particular requirements to transferring nuclear fuel from one container/part to another (Ex Whirlijig to 2.5M fuel drum on another section of the station) other than the heat requirement? I'm trying to pull a small bit of nuclear fuel out of some Whirlijigs attached to my station to put them into the storage drums, but doing the right-click on the reprocessor then left-click on the target part is not working (not even going from one reprocessor to another). I click on the MF-2 nuclear fuel drum I want the fuel to go to, but it wont do anything. If i click on any of the other parts or into empty space, it will give the "no valid target selected, exiting mode" excuse. Yes, there is an engineer onboard, he's lv2.

I'm hoping its not a mod interaction preventing it from happening (I have USI's reactor pack and Kontainers also installed), as I have a couple of smaller craft running about with USI reactors instead of NFT Reactors onboard.

 

Edit: did a little bit of pad experimenting, I can transfer nuclear fuel freely between containers, both USI and NFT containers, but not more active parts (Reactors and the reprocessor). Anything transferred to the reactors or reprocessor then refuses to leave/go to the container it just got pulled from, even if they're stone cold.

Hey so it kinda sounds like you're using an old version of the mod. There was an issue a couple of builds ago that had issues very much like you describe. Specifically, you should be using version 0.10.2 with KSP 1.4.5. Anything older is unsupported.

I just tested things in my current master version (0.10.2 on 1.4.5) and am not seeing what you describe.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Nertea