kerbiloid Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Canopus said: Salyut is a Space station though not a service Module i don't see the connection there. About the delta v, i guess not they don't need that much for the Missions planned with the Orion. It seems like it doesn't take as much fuel to get to the Distant Retrograde Orbit or near rectilinear Halo orbit as opposed to low Lunar Orbit. It has second port to insert a booster. Edited October 12, 2017 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, kerbiloid said: It has second port to insert a booster. Yeah but sending an entire space station with even less Delta v every time you fly an Orion doesn't sound like a reasonable alternative to the ESM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Canopus said: sending an entire space station The entire space station weights less than Orion itself (even equipped) and can stay in orbit till the next occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: It has second port to insert a booster. How would this give Orion a reasonable dv alone, much less combined with Salyut? Apollo CSM was 2800 m/s (unsure if this figure includes mission segments with the LEM or not). Orion is ~1800. Saltut and Soyuz only have <400 m/s, right, and that's moving themselves, not more massive craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, kerbiloid said: The entire space station weights less than Orion itself (even equipped) and can stay in orbit till the next occasion. Orions mission is to reenter from high orbits as to enable human exploration beyond low earth orbit. I don't see how an old Russian Spacestation could fill that role unless itself was equipped with a big service module to break into LEO and meet with a Soyuz. Orion (the Capsule only) weighs 10 tons. Salyut 7 was 20 tons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, tater said: Saltut and Soyuz only have <400 m/s With the fuel in their inner tanks. That's why I mention the second port - for an external booster. 2 minutes ago, Canopus said: Orion (the Capsule only) weighs 10 tons. With not only capsule ~20. Salyut ~19. Edited October 12, 2017 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, kerbiloid said: With not only capsule ~20. Salyut ~19ю Yes it weighs more with Service module, but it also has way more Delta V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, Canopus said: Yes it weighs more with Service module, but it also has way more Delta V. Than a 20 t external fuel tank with an engine, attached to the opposite Salyut docking port? ("Old" - that's funny. What can be "old" in an aluminium can, especially compared to another aluminium can - ATV?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Than a 20 t external fuel tank with an engine, attached to the opposite Salyut docking port? ("Old" - that's funny. What can be "old" in an aluminium can, especially compared to another aluminium can - ATV?) So instead of just making a SM that isn't useless, Orion should dock to a station almost its own mass with SM, then design a new docking SM upper stage and dock that to the station docked to Orion? Seems even less likely than a decent SM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Yeah i really don't get the idea here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, tater said: Orion should dock to a station almost its own mass with SM 14 minutes ago, Canopus said: Orion (the Capsule only) weighs 10 tons. As after connecting to Salyut, Orion no longer needs its own SM, then total mass is just 1.5 times greater than a single Orion and more or less the same as for Orion with extended SM.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Orion requires a SM, it's not just propellants, it's also power and life support. Bad idea regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, tater said: it's also power and life support. Salyut is this. No need to launch it every time, it just waits for you in LEO. With a booster attached from the opposite side. Edited October 12, 2017 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 25 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Salyut is this. No need to launch it every time, it just waits for you in LEO. With a booster attached from the opposite side. So you are proposing a reusable shuttle that flies from leo to lunar orbit and back? If that was an option we wouldn't need the Orion Capsule anyway. I don't really see why it would have to be a Salyut though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, Canopus said: If that was an option we wouldn't need the Orion Capsule anyway. Why not. CST-100 is enough to deliver the crew to Salyut and back. 14 minutes ago, Canopus said: I don't really see why it would have to be a Salyut though. It also doesn't have to be ATV. Salyut just has two docking ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: It also doesn't have to be ATV. Salyut just has two docking ports. Well the ESM is only loosely based on the ATV anyway so it has no docking ports. Docking Ports aren't the point of the Service module Edited October 12, 2017 by Canopus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (Offtopic here, but just by the way. 2-3 months ago I have suggested in SpaceX thread to make a Dragon-v1+ATV TKS-style ship... I'm really frightened now. Do they get ideas from a game forum?..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, kerbiloid said: (Offtopic here, but just by the way. 2-3 months ago I have suggested in SpaceX thread to make a Dragon-v1+ATV TKS-style ship... I'm really frightened now. Do they get ideas from a game forum?..) ESM was devised in 2013 so i guess not. You also seem to be missing the point a little. The ESM will have no pressurized space so its not an equivalent of the whole TKS situation, it provides only life support, power and propulsion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, Canopus said: The ESM will have no pressurized space so its not an equivalent of the whole TKS situation, it provides only life support, power and propulsion. Ah. Then I see now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibb31 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) Salyut is dead. There are no DOS hulls left and the last FGB module is Nauka, which has been delayed mostly because of aging problems (cracks and contamination). Russia has no production lines for building new modules. The tooling and supply chains are gone. Building a new Salyut would be like building a new Skylab. You would be better off starting from scratch. 'Tis a silly idea. Edited October 13, 2017 by Nibb31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) @kerbiloid's choice of mission vehicle is amusing in its unfeasibility, but he's not too far off a certain train of thought. The Augustine Commission recommended Orion/Constellation (by then close to current configuration) to be restricted to spaceflight only, with launch and reentry carried out by Commercial Crew. Yeah... it already had a working RV by then. Which brings us back to the elephant in the room. Orion delenda est. Edited October 14, 2017 by DDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Augustus_ Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 2 hours ago, tater said: At this rate I think that EUS will be cancelled and EM-1 will be flown manned under order of POTUS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotius Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Mhmm. Another nice CGI clip. I wouldn't mind such graphics in Kerbal Space Program 2. As for the craft and mission itself, i'll believe when NASA will have flight-worthy rocket in the VAB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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