tater Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 New LockMart lander proposed for Moon. Looks like it's the Mars lander minus the aerodynamics and other Mars specific elements: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 hours ago, tater said: New LockMart lander proposed for Moon. Looks like it's the Mars lander minus the aerodynamics and other Mars specific elements: Looks very Kerbal-ish! Im geussing those engines are RL10s but could they be replaced by a BE-3U, or would that be too overpowered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Phil Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 3 hours ago, tater said: New LockMart lander proposed for Moon. Looks like it's the Mars lander minus the aerodynamics and other Mars specific elements: How do they plan to get that thing there? It's 60+ tonnes. Unless the plan is to launch it empty on an SLS or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Bill Phil said: How do they plan to get that thing there? It's 60+ tonnes. Unless the plan is to launch it empty on an SLS or something. Maybe on the mythical Block 2.... now farther away (as we expected): Edited October 3, 2018 by tater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 SLS and JWST are in a competition to see which can launch last... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Dry mass of that Moon lander is 22 tons. Presumably you could send it partially filled to the Gateway (since they're all about the Gateway), then use a commercial vehicle to fill it with props (hydrolox). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brotoro Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 5 hours ago, tater said: New LockMart lander proposed for Moon. Looks like it's the Mars lander minus the aerodynamics and other Mars specific elements: Such a smooth moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Here is the paper: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/space/documents/ahead/LM-Crewed-Lunar-Lander-from-Gateway-IAC-2018-Rev1.pdf?_ga=2.116053317.291590913.1538592165-885407726.1538592165 8 minutes ago, Brotoro said: Such a smooth moon. Sounds like an album name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rocket Scientist Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 25 minutes ago, Canopus said: Sounds like an album name DSG and the MADV's - Smooth Moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Phil Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 2 hours ago, tater said: Dry mass of that Moon lander is 22 tons. Presumably you could send it partially filled to the Gateway (since they're all about the Gateway), then use a commercial vehicle to fill it with props (hydrolox). Probably. They do want to make it reusable, if built, so there'll need to be a decently sized depot in orbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) If we're talking about assembling 62 tons outside the ionosphere, can't they go all the way and make the lander with nuclear pulse propulsion? Edited October 3, 2018 by juanml82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL59 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 The lunar BFR will be in use by the time the Boeing moon lander is used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) Spoiler 1. Who made the photo? And where are the stars? 2. Will they learn from the past mistakes and take care about the lander visibility from the Earth? Say, have a big spotlight or so. Also if set the spotlight horizontally, the Earth astronomers would be watching the 100m long shadows of crew members running and jumping on the Moon. Edited October 4, 2018 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Augustus_ Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 18 hours ago, tater said: Maybe on the mythical Block 2.... now farther away (as we expected): At this rate, by the time SLS flies, there will be two new HLVs (Vulcan and New Glenn) capable of lifting Orion and DSG components to TLI. And that's if we ignore BFR..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 hours ago, kerbiloid said: 1. Who made the photo? And where are the stars? It's daytime in the image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, _Augustus_ said: At this rate, by the time SLS flies, there will be two new HLVs (Vulcan and New Glenn) capable of lifting Orion and DSG components to TLI. And that's if we ignore BFR..... Doubt that NG or Vulcan can throw 25t+ to TLI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 49 minutes ago, sh1pman said: Doubt that NG or Vulcan can throw 25t+ to TLI. Vulcan can throw 16t to GTO and New Glenn can send 13t to GTO. Im pretty sure the Delta-V required to reach GTO is much lower than to reach the a Trans-lunar injection, so you can expect the TLI payload te be lower than the GTO payload. Neither Vulcan nor New Glenn (2 stage) can send a 25t+ payload to the Moon. So you are right. Falcon Heavy might just be able to send the lander to a TLI, but im not sure if SpaceX is willing to expend their boosters and maybe also expand their cargo bay. Maybe the 3 stage New Glenn can send it to the Moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Phil Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 29 minutes ago, NSEP said: Vulcan can throw 16t to GTO and New Glenn can send 13t to GTO. Im pretty sure the Delta-V required to reach GTO is much lower than to reach the a Trans-lunar injection, so you can expect the TLI payload te be lower than the GTO payload. Neither Vulcan nor New Glenn (2 stage) can send a 25t+ payload to the Moon. So you are right. Falcon Heavy might just be able to send the lander to a TLI, but im not sure if SpaceX is willing to expend their boosters and maybe also expand their cargo bay. Maybe the 3 stage New Glenn can send it to the Moon. Well if we're talking about Lockheed's lander concept, it could be launched into LEO fully loaded with propellant and then could do TLI itself. From what I can find it's a single stage design, so it may just have the delta-v. Of course, you then need to refuel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, Bill Phil said: Well if we're talking about Lockheed's lander concept, it could be launched into LEO fully loaded with propellant and then could do TLI itself. From what I can find it's a single stage design, so it may just have the delta-v. Of course, you then need to refuel it. Then it would probably be possible on an New-Glenn/Vulcan rocket doing it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) Does it have enough dV to land and then launch back to NRHO as a single stage? Edited October 4, 2018 by sh1pman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, sh1pman said: Does it have enough dV to land and then launch back to NRHO as a single stage? The dv of the thing is ~4600 m/s. It could actually make LLO from LEO. It cannot sortie from Gateway to the surface and back as far as I can tell. It's ~750 m/s to LLO from Gateway, then 1800-2200 each way to the surface and back. (did I mention that Gateway is stupid yet?) Edited October 4, 2018 by tater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, tater said: (did I mention that Gateway is stupid yet?) Everyone knows that already . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Phil Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 32 minutes ago, tater said: The dv of the thing is ~4600 m/s. It could actually make LLO from LEO. It cannot sortie from Gateway to the surface and back as far as I can tell. It's ~750 m/s to LLO from Gateway, then 1800-2200 each way to the surface and back. (did I mention that Gateway is stupid yet?) Well, gateway is supposed to have ion engines and significant maneuvering capacity, right? Could probably rendezvous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, sh1pman said: Does it have enough dV to land and then launch back to NRHO as a single stage? "A Delta V capability of 5 km/s covers the round trip between the Gateway and the surface." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 35 minutes ago, tater said: (did I mention that Gateway is stupid yet?) I think you did, significantly more than once... So the reason why the Gateway will be at NRHO is because Orion can't visit any lower orbit. It is this way, because Orion's ESM is a copy of ATV service module and has 2 times less fuel than Apollo CSM. NASA decided to keep it small because SLS Block 1 can't send more than 26t to TLI... Did I get everything right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts