Jaff Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 If DIVH is still in Vandy when iridium 8 launches does that mean another barge landing just offshore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 39 minutes ago, Jaff said: If DIVH is still in Vandy when iridium 8 launches does that mean another barge landing just offshore? Probably so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rocket Scientist Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 About reentry on Starship: I think it will aerobrake in multiple passes when coming back from cislunar or interplanetary space to help with the peak thermal loading on the steel structure. In the past, this has (IIRC) never been used, since most spacecraft have life support equipment in a service module that has to detach before reentry. The only other vehicles to not have that limitation have been either unmanned (and lighter, making the thermal load much lower) or confined to LEO, where multi-pass reentry doesn't make sense. It's quite frequently used in KSP to reduce peak thermal and aerodynamic loads, and if Starship does use some kind of heat sink cooling (not strictly heat sink, but dumping heat into the fuel counts), this will allow that to work far better, as the radiators will have a chance to remove heat between passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 hour ago, tater said: I don’t remember seeing that black stripe down the side before. Did I never see that angle or is it new? Painting the weld line black to quickly locate it for inspection between flights? That strongback looks fit for a Heavy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rocket Scientist Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said: I don’t remember seeing that black stripe down the side before. Did I never see that angle or is it new? Painting the weld line black to quickly locate it for inspection between flights? Looks like the FTS/cableway thing that all the cables and tubes go along. I think it has always been there, just never painted black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 25 minutes ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said: Looks like the FTS/cableway thing that all the cables and tubes go along. I think it has always been there, just never painted black. Not painted, just another sexy bare composite structure on the B5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said: About reentry on Starship: I think it will aerobrake in multiple passes when coming back from cislunar or interplanetary space to help with the peak thermal loading on the steel structure. In the past, this has (IIRC) never been used, since most spacecraft have life support equipment in a service module that has to detach before reentry. The only other vehicles to not have that limitation have been either unmanned (and lighter, making the thermal load much lower) or confined to LEO, where multi-pass reentry doesn't make sense. There has only ever been one manned re-entry vehicle that has come back with such speeds (Apollo). So it's kind of strange to write about it as if this is some sort of general rule. Anyway, Apollo did kind of feature a sort of multi-pass aerobraking. The re-entry profile featured a first dip into the atmosphere, then a bounce upward (not all the way out), and then a final descent. I believe this was to moderate peak heating and g loading. Edited January 3, 2019 by mikegarrison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said: About reentry on Starship: I think it will aerobrake in multiple passes when coming back from cislunar or interplanetary space to help with the peak thermal loading on the steel structure. In the past, this has (IIRC) never been used, since most spacecraft have life support equipment in a service module that has to detach before reentry. The only other vehicles to not have that limitation have been either unmanned (and lighter, making the thermal load much lower) or confined to LEO, where multi-pass reentry doesn't make sense. It's quite frequently used in KSP to reduce peak thermal and aerodynamic loads, and if Starship does use some kind of heat sink cooling (not strictly heat sink, but dumping heat into the fuel counts), this will allow that to work far better, as the radiators will have a chance to remove heat between passes. That's just gradual aerobrake; combined with the considerable lifting power of the huge empty fuselage, you should be able to skip quite a few times. 75% success rate during Zond. @mikegarrison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 BEHOLD! IT RISES! [ominous science chanting] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 On 12/28/2018 at 8:13 PM, tater said: I just skimmed that, where did he say that? It's certainly a test article. As for actual starship (orbital)... Dunno. He missed in that it was mounted on an concrete slab and did not have engines. Some talk on the nasa forum that it might only have internal tanks as in header tanks or larger. Also it looks more dented than it is because its shiny. That makes dents show way stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 As an example, look at F9 boosters. Entry burn, landing burn. The hopper needs only the landing burn, and a burn to get to to whatever target altitude it starts from. This is a tiny subset of propellant compared to full tanks. Also: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rocket Scientist Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 9 hours ago, mikegarrison said: There has only ever been one manned re-entry vehicle that has come back with such speeds (Apollo). So it's kind of strange to write about it as if this is some sort of general rule. True, but Orion and most other theoretical interplanetary missions include capsules with service modules. 9 hours ago, mikegarrison said: Anyway, Apollo did kind of feature a sort of multi-pass aerobraking. The re-entry profile featured a first dip into the atmosphere, then a bounce upward (not all the way out), and then a final descent. I believe this was to moderate peak heating and g loading. 8 hours ago, DDE said: That's just gradual aerobrake; combined with the considerable lifting power of the huge empty fuselage, you should be able to skip quite a few times. 75% success rate during Zond. @mikegarrison I'm wondering if we'll see something beyond even this, like nearly a full orbit to allow the heat in the fuel or structure to be radiated away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) StarShip has far better lifting characteristics than the Apollo CM and a wider allowable AoA than the Shuttle. Are we assuming the holes cut in the central column are for thrusters? Edited January 4, 2019 by sevenperforce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, sevenperforce said: Are we assuming the holes cut in the central column are for thrusters? I have no idea what they are for. I'm in full wait and see mode---and unlike other wait and see issues in the past, we might literally know in a few days at the rate they are working. One morning there will be a tweet and the holes will have thruster bells in them (or not) and we'll know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 27 minutes ago, tater said: I have no idea what they are for. I'm in full wait and see mode---and unlike other wait and see issues in the past, we might literally know in a few days at the rate they are working. One morning there will be a tweet and the holes will have thruster bells in them (or not) and we'll know The holes looks weird, some sort of large tubing inside them. Would you also not put one set of thrusters high and one low for stability. having an ring around the center is weird. One issue with BFS is that its way less aerodynamic stable then landing than the Falcon 9 lower stage who is pretty aerodynamic stable with the drag from the grind fins and the interstage hole. BFS is bullet shaped with huge fins on the bottom, it also has to go from the sideways drag mode to vertical for landing. One idea I have read is that it eiter just have internal heater tanks as only tanks or just the bottom part is tanks and the top is pretty much an cap, this makes some sense. and it can explain why the top thrusters are so low. But then it should have more thrusters at bottom. On the other hand as I understand grasshopper did not use RCS just engine gimbal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just one more stacking! Unless they have internal work to do or decide to make it even huger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 27 minutes ago, tater said: They are literally assembling a rocket in a big open field with sheet metal. I can't even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, sevenperforce said: They are literally assembling a rocket in a big open field with sheet metal. I can't even. Yeah, like, even kerbals build their rockets indoors. They seem to be treating it like a seaship instead of a spaceship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 39 minutes ago, sevenperforce said: They are literally assembling a rocket in a big open field with sheet metal. I can't even. I can't express how much I love that this is happening. We go from waiting for tweets, or IAC meetings... to watching crowd-sourced images of it being built in front of our eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 19 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said: Yeah, like, even kerbals build their rockets indoors. Kerbals also test their new rockets with full crew on board. If it fails, it was a test, otherwise it’s a mission. Hopefully, SpaceX isn’t going to outperform kerbals in that particular way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, tater said: I can't express how much I love that this is happening. We go from waiting for tweets, or IAC meetings... to watching crowd-sourced images of it being built in front of our eyes. Apparently Elon Time finally downloaded the Ludicrous update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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