zolotiyeruki Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 58 minutes ago, mikegarrison said: The bigger a spaceship is, typically, the higher the mass/area ratio will be, so the thermal effects will happen slower. But they will still happen. If the ship absorbs more heat than it radiates, it will still get hot. It will just take a little longer. At the same time, the hotter it gets, the more energy it radiates. It'll still reach an equilibrium, just at a different temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 48 minutes ago, tater said: Yeah, Starship will also need radiators. That or the thermal control for reentry can also be used. If they have a system to circulate cryos between skin layers, maybe they use that. As the thernak control system will be open that would not work well. That is unless parts are closed and you can route that as an radiator. They might need cooling for the methane and oxygen to at least for mars missions, that has to be an extended one as the hull will be to warm to liquidize. this could easy be used to cool systems and crew compartment by an heat excanger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, zolotiyeruki said: At the same time, the hotter it gets, the more energy it radiates. It'll still reach an equilibrium, just at a different temperature. Of course, but if that equilibrium is dangerous (or even uncomfortable), then what? The point is that size does not negate the need for thermal regulation. The ISS is very large and has lots of thermal regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolotiyeruki Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 18 hours ago, mikegarrison said: Of course, but if that equilibrium is dangerous (or even uncomfortable), then what? The point is that size does not negate the need for thermal regulation. The ISS is very large and has lots of thermal regulation. That makes me think of another question: could you just unfurl some sort of sun shade (a la Skylab) to reduce any cooling needs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 17 minutes ago, zolotiyeruki said: That makes me think of another question: could you just unfurl some sort of sun shade (a la Skylab) to reduce any cooling needs? Yes, but that could be complicated. It has to stay between you and the sun or else it's worse than useless (you wouldn't want it blocking your radiation out to deep space). And of course it's not massless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racescort666 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I suppose this is relevant: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Phil Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, zolotiyeruki said: That makes me think of another question: could you just unfurl some sort of sun shade (a la Skylab) to reduce any cooling needs? Only from solar irradiance. Internal systems also release heat (computers) and of course keeping the crew at a comfortable temperature requires a complex system that produces waste heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickSawyer Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Right, but by minimizing the additional thermal input from the sunlight, you also reduce the loads that your radiators have to handle. It's also going to significantly simplify whatever you do to keep the propellants liquid... if you don't mind having normal cryogens, instead of SpaceX's current approach of deep cryo/densified propellants. Curious to see how they plan on tackling that particular issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 22 hours ago, zolotiyeruki said: the hotter it gets, the more energy it radiates. In both directions, lol. Inside and outside. See Spiral nose for details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 25 minutes ago, MaverickSawyer said: Right, but by minimizing the additional thermal input from the sunlight, you also reduce the loads that your radiators have to handle. It's also going to significantly simplify whatever you do to keep the propellants liquid... if you don't mind having normal cryogens, instead of SpaceX's current approach of deep cryo/densified propellants. Curious to see how they plan on tackling that particular issue. Deep cryo is only necessary for launch, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 hours ago, mikegarrison said: Yes, but that could be complicated. It has to stay between you and the sun or else it's worse than useless (you wouldn't want it blocking your radiation out to deep space). And of course it's not massless. One idea for an mars ship might be to have it fold out behind, you have this bottom cargo holds, use one of them. it could be just an thin fabric or an solar panel. radiators are a bit more complex as you run liquid trough them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 It's still gonna need thermal control with humans aboard, including radiators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricktoberfest Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, magnemoe said: One idea for an mars ship might be to have it fold out behind, you have this bottom cargo holds, use one of them. it could be just an thin fabric or an solar panel. radiators are a bit more complex as you run liquid trough them Could this be radiation shielding too? Solves another problem if so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ricktoberfest said: Could this be radiation shielding too? Solves another problem if so On something like ISS yes On an starship no, you need space or insulation. both cost volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Psst... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Also relevant: Sound like FH might actually be overkill for STP-2, but man, that’ll be bad-S! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Oh, just clear out one of the parking lots around there, it'll be good enough. No, that's not good enough... Land it on the VAB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzon Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Who knows, the VAB would probably be fine. Though how would they get it down? Refill it then do another hop to the actual landing sites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Unlisted hi res SpaceX video of F9: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuyWithALongUsername Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, tater said: Unlisted hi res SpaceX video of F9: Now THAT'S what I call a marketing video! Seriously, imagine showing this (or maybe the FH recap vid, now that I think about it) to just any random person as little as 10 or 15 years ago. SpaceX is just so undoubtedly the coolest company on Earth... or perhaps I should rephrase that. Edited March 27, 2019 by ThatGuyWithALongUsername Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL59 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Hey @Ultimate Steve you are always complaining you can't watch spacex launches due to youtube being blocked at school. However, you can get past this without hacking or downloading vpns and breaking your school device agreement- simply go to Khan Academy, watch a video there, put it to full screen, then click the title of the video- it will open up youtube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Hmm, i can imagine that he knows how to circumnavigate the block, but maybe he is a good guy, leaves it be, and watches in peace and quiet after school ;-) --------- There was no firing up of the Hopper this week, or have i missed it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Green Baron said: There was no firing up of the Hopper this week, or have i missed it ? Still Waiting, ferociously.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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