totm nov 2023 SpaceX Discussion Thread

[magnemoe]

12 hours ago, RCgothic said:

I assumed they would have an crane on top for stacking starship on superheavy, also to move superheavy from the capture clamps and down on pad or put it on an transporter or perhaps an servicing stand. 
using the capture clamps for this will complicate them a lot and be much more limited.
 

[RealKerbal3x]

Tiles on the nosecone!

Looks like they're going with the 'cut-off tiles' approach to deal with the compound curvature:

[RCgothic]

1 hour ago, magnemoe said:

I assumed they would have an crane on top for stacking starship on superheavy, also to move superheavy from the capture clamps and down on pad or put it on an transporter or perhaps an servicing stand. 
using the capture clamps for this will complicate them a lot and be much more limited.
 

I agree. I'm not sure what they have planned, but I'm looking forward to finding out.

[sevenperforce]

3 hours ago, magnemoe said:

I assumed they would have an crane on top for stacking starship on superheavy, also to move superheavy from the capture clamps and down on pad or put it on an transporter or perhaps an servicing stand. 
using the capture clamps for this will complicate them a lot and be much more limited.

Well, if the capture arms can catch a falling Superheavy booster, then they should also be able to pick up both the booster and the Starship and move them around. The best part is no part. 

They may elect to try and lift Starship by the forward flaps to avoid having lift points poking through the heat shield.

2 hours ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Tiles on the nosecone!

Looks like they're going with the 'cut-off tiles' approach to deal with the compound curvature:

LOL, came here to post that but I guess I'm late to the party.

It definitely looks like those downward-facing triangles mark the bottom of the seam, as previously speculated.

If you look higher on that particular image, you can see what appear to be diamond-shaped fillers, but these could simply be fractured tiles that need to be replaced:

The seams seem (overall) to be much tighter than I would have expected, though. Once we get a cleaner image we might be able to tell whether they are all hexes or if they have some sort of tapered shape.

I'm guessing that they will end up gluing custom tiles to the nosecone, perhaps with one large monolithic hemispheric tile at the very tip. They used glue for custom tiles on the flaps, so....

[Beccab]

Four more raptors today, which makes it 8 in 2 days. If they don't have enough for the booster yet they're getting close

[Beccab]

B4 penultimate stacking before being complete in progress

[RealKerbal3x]

HOLY-

squeals in excitement

Edited July 29, 2021 by RealKerbal3x

[tater]

 

Also...

38 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

HOLY-

Needs to be huge

 

[zolotiyeruki]

Holy toledo, that looks like something out of The Expanse.

[RCgothic]

They're building a rocket with wooden scaffolding boards!

There are over 20 people in that thing!

Under $1000 per ton of thrust is under $230k per unit!

[mikegarrison]

You know ... if my long term goal is to own a Ferrari, that doesn't mean I'm actually going to ever own one.

[RealKerbal3x]

4 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

You know ... if my long term goal is to own a Ferrari, that doesn't mean I'm actually going to ever own one.

That could be said for any aspect of the Starship program.

They may not reach all (or, for that matter, any), of their goals for this vehicle, but they are sure as hell gonna try.

[CatastrophicFailure]

1 hour ago, RealKerbal3x said:

That could be said for any aspect of the Starship program.

They may not reach all (or, for that matter, any), of their goals for this vehicle, but they are sure as hell gonna try.

That's the incredible thing about it, even if it falls short in multiple aspects, it's still an absolute paradigm changer. 

[magnemoe]

25 minutes ago, RCgothic said:

They're building a rocket with wooden scaffolding boards!

There are over 20 people in that thing!

Under $1000 per ton of thrust is under $230k per unit!

Why not use wood, its very easy to cut as you want it, its no load or distance to fall.
I assumed it would be much more internal structure there walls who would be both structure distributing load and being slosh baffles. 
We have the outer skin the half circle stiffeners and downward and inner structure. 

Also its just pipes going off 90 degree, could this cause flow issues like cavitation? Yes this is an very common design as seawater inlets on ships and oil rigs  but then at way lower pressure and you can close the bottom valve to stop any leaks. 

[tater]

New Ferraris are $250k to $500k. My ultimate plan could be to buy one, and it’s still maybe 4-8 times what I would normally pay for a car.

So if SpaceX is off by 10, Raptor is still cheap.

 

Literally 40X cheaper than the similar thrust rs-25

[Beccab]

12 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

Well, if the capture arms can catch a falling Superheavy booster, then they should also be able to pick up both the booster and the Starship and move them around. The best part is no part. 

They may elect to try and lift Starship by the forward flaps to avoid having lift points poking through the heat shield.

LOL, came here to post that but I guess I'm late to the party.

It definitely looks like those downward-facing triangles mark the bottom of the seam, as previously speculated.

If you look higher on that particular image, you can see what appear to be diamond-shaped fillers, but these could simply be fractured tiles that need to be replaced:

The seams seem (overall) to be much tighter than I would have expected, though. Once we get a cleaner image we might be able to tell whether they are all hexes or if they have some sort of tapered shape.

I'm guessing that they will end up gluing custom tiles to the nosecone, perhaps with one large monolithic hemispheric tile at the very tip. They used glue for custom tiles on the flaps, so....

Clear enough? 

[sevenperforce]

8 hours ago, Beccab said:

Clear enough? 

It looks like they are narrower tiles but it’s still not a great angle. 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Given that Texas and the coast of anywhere can be quite windy - and that stacking SS20 is likely to require cm precision (if not mm) - how big of a launch window /authority do they need to not only get the two ships mated, but also launch on a relatively stale day? 

"The average hourly wind speed in Galveston is essentially constant during November, remaining within 0.2 miles per hour of 11.7 miles per hour throughout.

For reference, on December 25, the windiest day of the year, the daily average wind speed is 12.2 miles per hour, while on August 15, the calmest day of the year, the daily average wind speed is 8.4 miles per hour.".  https://weatherspark.com/m/9621/11/Average-Weather-in-November-in-Galveston-Texas-United-States

See reference above - what is the scrub wind speed for stacking / launch? 

 

[Rakaydos]

28 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Given that Texas and the coast of anywhere can be quite windy - and that stacking SS20 is likely to require cm precision (if not mm) - how big of a launch window /authority do they need to not only get the two ships mated, but also launch on a relatively stale day? 

"The average hourly wind speed in Galveston is essentially constant during November, remaining within 0.2 miles per hour of 11.7 miles per hour throughout.

For reference, on December 25, the windiest day of the year, the daily average wind speed is 12.2 miles per hour, while on August 15, the calmest day of the year, the daily average wind speed is 8.4 miles per hour.".  https://weatherspark.com/m/9621/11/Average-Weather-in-November-in-Galveston-Texas-United-States

See reference above - what is the scrub wind speed for stacking / launch? 

 

This may be a factor in the idea to use the catching arms for stacking instead of a crane- more positive control of the upper stage, so less affected by the wind during stacking. 

[RealKerbal3x]

Looks like B4's thrust section (the one Elon tweeted a picture of yesterday)

[Beccab]

[mikegarrison]

First line:

On Friday, July 30, 2021, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) denied protests filed by Blue Origin Federation, LLC, of South Kent, Washington, and Dynetics, Inc.-A Leidos Company, of Huntsville, Alabama.

------------

Huh? There is no such place as "South Kent, Washington". It's just Kent.

Google says:

21218 76th Avenue South Kent, WA 98032

But that is number: "21218", street: "76th Avenue South", city: "Kent", state: "Washington", ZIP code: "98032"

------------

This does not inspire confidence in the rigor involved here.

Edited July 30, 2021 by mikegarrison

[mikegarrison]

Further reading of the press release shows that they did find NASA waived one requirement for SpaceX, but the GAO decided it was insignificant to the award.

Also, the implication is that the other two programs never expected to be the cheapest. They expected to be competing against each other for being the second winner, and were surprised when NASA announced they would only have one winner.

This makes much of what we know more understandable, including Blue Origin's protest that they were not allowed to change their price when they realized they would be competing for a single award and not a multiple award.

I seem to recall that most people here also thought there would be two winners.

Edited July 30, 2021 by mikegarrison

[Beccab]

13 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

This does not inspire confidence in the rigor involved here.

It is literally a press release

[zolotiyeruki]

25 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

This makes much of what we know more understandable, including Blue Origin's protest that they were not allowed to change their price when they realized they would be competing for a single award and not a multiple award.

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong about this, but isn't the whole point of the sealed bid process to encourage the bidders to put forth their last, best offer?  Is BO basically admitting they could have submitted a lower bid, but thought they could pad the cost and still win?  If so, then they deserve a big fat Nelson "ha ha!" and a public shaming.