Boring company

[tater]

7 hours ago, YNM said:

Seriously ?! That's 5 times the size of my parent's house land, and the size of the land of my grandfather's house (which is soo spacious it has an "orchard") ! 500 sq.metre of building is overkill...

My house is 406 m².

I don't consider it terribly large, though it's not small, certainly. My neighbor 3 doors up has a house twice that size. Many people we know with newer houses have considerably larger ones than ours.

[FleshJeb]

13 hours ago, tater said:

@FleshJeb, would there be any prophylactic stuff that could be done legally to protect land that could be used as a negotiating tool? Say Someone formed a company to make the basements of the future that bore under your property to some ridiculous depth, so you can turn your 800 sq ft house into a 10,000 ft² underground palace. Then when Musk wants to bore under, he either moves the tunnel, or pays you what is enough to make you agree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spite_house

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdout_(real_estate)

I'm sure there are instances of creating a (false) business plan to artificially inflate the value of a property, but I can't think of any at the moment. I'm generally in the business of solving problems, not creating them. Of course, my job is to tell the truth through accurate measurement and interpretation of legal documents, so that sometimes reveals problems that landowners already have, but didn't know about. However, this doesn't really become an issue until they decide to sell the property or someone complains.

[YNM]

I've seen a few things "made" by this company :

https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/

https://www.designboom.com/technology/elon-musk-boring-cars-05-29-2017/

Quote

• Increased speed. The controlled autonomous skate allows for speeds of 125 - 150 miles per hour in urban settings.
• Multiple payloads. The electric skate can transport people (mass transit), goods and/or automobiles. And if one adds a vacuum shell, it is now a Hyperloop pod which can travel at 600+ miles per hour.

If this is the case, why not a short rail-train aboveground ? They could be automated as well...

[tater]

2 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spite_house

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdout_(real_estate)

I'm sure there are instances of creating a (false) business plan to artificially inflate the value of a property, but I can't think of any at the moment. I'm generally in the business of solving problems, not creating them. Of course, my job is to tell the truth through accurate measurement and interpretation of legal documents, so that sometimes reveals problems that landowners already have, but didn't know about. However, this doesn't really become an issue until they decide to sell the property or someone complains.

It'll never be an issue for me, I just dislike the idea of someone making money on my property unless I get a piece of it, so I'm vicariously thinking that about people in LA (I have a buddy who lives nearby SpaceX, actually).

[YNM]

3 hours ago, tater said:

... I just dislike the idea of someone making money on my property unless I get a piece of it, so I'm vicariously thinking that about people in LA (I have a buddy who lives nearby SpaceX, actually).

They must be p*ssed to live in London then, for the numerous tubes that runs underground !

 

But yeah, I don't think you'd have any power over such stuff, and in reverse they don't have any power to force it on you. Hence their usual depth. 8 m below ground for average depth, however, is quite surprising - most stuff go for >10 unless very short.

Edited January 30, 2018 by YNM

[tater]

3 hours ago, YNM said:

They must be p*ssed to live in London then, for the numerous tubes that runs underground !

 

But yeah, I don't think you'd have any power over such stuff, and in reverse they don't have any power to force it on you. Hence their usual depth. 8 m below ground for average depth, however, is quite surprising - most stuff go for >10 unless very short.

There are more and more wealthy people digging DEEP basements in London, though, right? With multiple floors, even swimming pools. The trick is that the tubes are already there. If they wanted to dig a NEW tube, and I bought a property with the intent of building a deep basement, that would be a problem.

Also, another example. LA could at some point develop more tall buildings, since real estate there is so valuable. If there is a tunnel under my property (assuming for argument I lived in LA), then when a developer is looking for land to buy to build a skyscraper, he will not build where the Boring tunnel is, since he can't sink foundation piers without hitting tunnels. This decreases the property value in the future in an unpredictable way. Seems like "market value" needs to internalize this fact and bake it in. Otherwise, and such contract should include a rider that if a future use of my property ever needs to interfere witht he tunnel, my property rights take precedence, and the tunnel is toast.

I'd happily let them tunnel with that as a rider (should I, or a future owner ever want to use the volume under the property, then they have to dig a new tunnel elsewhere).

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by tater

[YNM]

@tater : The deep-level tube were dug at a certain point/depth in the London clay. I think they are deep enough that even if you were to drive foundation piles down in it's not going to reach that depth. Guess from this video that depth is about 20 metres in the suburbs (or above-ground) - but I'm well aware that it goes deeper nearer to the center (picking-wise it seems they can go beyond 30 m/100 ft, deepest at 54 m - not in the center though !).

I'm not sure about the soil stratigraphy in LA (not even in London tbh - that's based on what I heard and they list their station depths. LA metro don't list their station depths), but ideally tunnels are made inside hard soil to ensure strength and stability. Foundations only go down to the hard soil, so clasically the two can't meet each other.

 

But with Musk's current plans of digging only 8 metres underground, I'm not sure.

 

 

EXTRA : For information, the other way to build underground lines is cut-and-cover. This one would mean that your basement size *could* be reduced, but in the same time they could be an advantage, as people disembarking the metro can go straight to your premises.

And another deep tunnel extra, some utility tunnels have been dug under developed areas, and they're very deep : this electricity tunnel goes down at 35 m, this sewer goes down at 75 m. Crossrail itself had been said to go down to 40 m, and there's a nice cut-out of elevation.

Edited January 30, 2018 by YNM

[tater]

8 m is really shallow. I'd look at his planned map and have someone dig holes that deep on my property just because if I lived there.

[cubinator]

You know what we need...not a flamethrower, but

Combustible lemons.

[Nibb31]

On 1/30/2018 at 12:23 AM, tater said:

My house is 406 m².

I don't consider it terribly large, though it's not small, certainly. My neighbor 3 doors up has a house twice that size. Many people we know with newer houses have considerably larger ones than ours.

That's seriously huge by European standards. Most average European homes are between 90-150 m2. 150 m2 amounts to something like 6 bedrooms already.

[Green Baron]

I think, but i am not sure, that the calculation in America is different. It includes cellar, patios, balconies, garages(?), walls, etc. while (some countries in) Europe excludes these things, and everything where the headroom is below 2.2m or so.

Keeping a house with 400m² clean is a full time job, so i am not jealous :-)

 

Also, i'd be careful with the wish to get a share of their business. This could be expensive ...

Edited February 17, 2018 by Green Baron

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, Green Baron said:

Keeping a house with 400m² clean is a full time job

If it's a tower, it is possible to broom the storeys one per week from top to down. Then repeat.

[tater]

5 hours ago, Green Baron said:

I think, but i am not sure, that the calculation in America is different. It includes cellar, patios, balconies, garages(?), walls, etc. while (some countries in) Europe excludes these things, and everything where the headroom is below 2.2m or so.

Keeping a house with 400m² clean is a full time job, so i am not jealous :-)

 

Also, i'd be careful with the wish to get a share of their business. This could be expensive ...

It includes only heated, interior space in the US. Always. Garages don't count, and usually not basements, or attics, either.

Those latter 2 spaces count only if finished spaces.

Interior walls are likely counted, however (it's much easier to use the area enclosed in the interior perimeter of the house).

[tater]

PS, the average US single-family, detached house is apparently 249.6 m².

(that might be new construction, since the number has been increasing over the years)

[kerbiloid]

16 hours ago, tater said:

It includes only heated, interior space in the US.

Heated?

Spoiler

 

[cfds]

On 30.1.2018 at 7:02 AM, YNM said:

I've seen a few things "made" by this company :

https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/

https://www.designboom.com/technology/elon-musk-boring-cars-05-29-2017/

If this is the case, why not a short rail-train aboveground ? They could be automated as well...

Don't forget that the most important aspect of Hypeloop and the Boring company is to lobby against anything remotely looking like a high capacity, high speed train system. One might think Mr Musk has some stake in some form of individual traffic....

[YNM]

5 minutes ago, cfds said:

Don't forget that the most important aspect of Hypeloop and the Boring company is to lobby against anything remotely looking like a high capacity, high speed train system. One might think Mr Musk has some stake in some form of individual traffic....

When your 500 sq m houses only houses 2 people where everywhere else a mere 30 sq m can house 6, it's clear that the usual PT won't work.

Shame on land-wasting.

Edited February 18, 2018 by YNM

[Green Baron]

22 hours ago, tater said:

PS, the average US single-family, detached house is apparently 249.6 m².

Wow. There a sauce for this ? Edit: found, it is apparently correct !

I know we're ot. nevertheless and since there's nothing new from the Boring company; a 250sqm house without any ground e.g. near Stuttgart, Germany, would be worth a million, can be much more if it is new and in a preferred area. The average family there are no millionaires, though there are quite a few of them ;-)

250sqm are ~2,700 square feet, right ?

 

Editedit: and i found that it is apparently half that in Germany, though houses are MUCH more expensive. For the average house price in the US (250,000 funds) you get a two room flat (60-70sqm) in a city situation in southern Germany. And you must commit yourself and pay deposit before it's being built. Bloody central bank money. Sorry ... :-))

Edited February 18, 2018 by Green Baron
feet/meter conversion

[KG3]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 9:24 AM, YNM said:

@tater : 

I'm not sure about the soil stratigraphy in LA (not even in London tbh - that's based on what I heard and they list their station depths. LA metro don't list their station depths), but ideally tunnels are made inside hard soil to ensure strength and stability. Foundations only go down to the hard soil, so clasically the two can't meet each other.

 

I think a couple problems with digging a tunnel in Los Angeles is the earthquakes and the oil fields! 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Lake_Oil_Field

The Salt Lake Oil Field is an oil field underneath the city of Los Angeles, California....The field is also notable as being the source, by long-term seepage of crude oil to the ground surface along the 6th Street Fault, of the famous La Brea Tar Pits....The field is one of many in the Los Angeles Basin. Immediately to the west is the San Vicente Oil Field, and to the southwest the large Beverly Hills Oil Field. To the east are the Los Angeles City Oil Field and Los Angeles Downtown Oil Fields,

[Green Baron]

There is a plethora of information about the Los Angeles Basin on the web. It even has a Wikipedia page. The best place to start is surely the USGS. Oil is probably one the lesser "problems". In general wet sediments are difficult to tame, a tunnel network probably needs a lot of steel and concrete.

Publications from a mapping project: https://geomaps.wr.usgs.gov/archive/scamp/html/sc_la.html

A tunnel network is a very limited enterprise, so the regional charts don't help much. The boring people need actually to know what the local conditions at the places were they dig are like.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Green Baron

[tater]

8 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Heated?

  Hide contents

 

It can get surprisingly cold at night here in the desert, sometimes:

That house looks like the southern part of my state, lol.

3 hours ago, cfds said:

Don't forget that the most important aspect of Hypeloop and the Boring company is to lobby against anything remotely looking like a high capacity, high speed train system. One might think Mr Musk has some stake in some form of individual traffic....

Commuter rail in the US always hemorrhages money, except in a few places (like right around NYC). The trouble is that western US cities are too spread out, and people have to walk too far to get to the train, so they don't use it (or need cars to get tot he train). Never works.

3 hours ago, YNM said:

When your 500 sq m houses only houses 2 people where everywhere else a mere 30 sq m can house 6, it's clear that the usual PT won't work.

Shame on land-wasting.

It's not land wasting, it's a different set of expectations. If LA had been built at a different time, it would be a walking city (San Francisco is, for example). Once started as a city of stand-alone homes, not apartment blocks, the geography is sort of set. If you owned a small (LA houses are often small, my friend's house in Hawthrone is probably under 100m². His lot is only slightly bigger than the house (a driveway, and small garden in the back).

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by tater

[YNM]

1 hour ago, tater said:

If LA had been built at a different time, it would be a walking city (San Francisco is, for example).

SF a walking city ??!? With 4 lanes avenue every 300 m ?

2 hours ago, KG3 said:

I think a couple problems with digging a tunnel in Los Angeles is the earthquakes and the oil fields! 

LA has an underground metro that pretty much goes under the fracture area (the Red Line between Hollywood and Universal), and it's never a problem. The movement is indeed universal at depth (soils at the correct depth is pretty much like rocks due to the immense pressure if not for their water content).

Thing is, I'm sure it's waay deeper than Musk's 8 m /26 ft underground.

Edited February 18, 2018 by YNM

[tater]

15 minutes ago, YNM said:

SF a walking city ??!? With 4 lanes avenue every 300 m ?

I walk everywhere, every time I’m in SF, which is about a week a year.

Same with nyc, with larger streets.

[YNM]

Just now, tater said:

I walk everywhere, every time I’m in SF, which is about a week a year.

Same with nyc, with larger streets.

Why hasn't they make those big ugly roads go away then ?

[tater]

17 minutes ago, YNM said:

Why hasn't they make those big ugly roads go away then ?

What big roads in sfo do you mean? California St? Market? There are only a few, and 4 lanes is not a big deal, most nyc avenues are wider, and I walk everywhere in the City.