KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[Yemo]

Hey,

I tried changing the rad_hardness, but to no avail. I can neither change nor delete the module per MM statement.

This is what I tried for delete+replace, the effect was, that 2 module where present, one with the old value and one with the arbitrary value set below.

I guess the plugin runs after the MM patches, which is necessary to use values which are changed by MM.

But unfortunately it also means, that this MODULE is created only after the MM works.

I m not good enough at coding to know whether it is easier to shift this module creation before the MM, or replacing the creation functionality with an MM patch entirely.

Also, I noticed that the 2.5m Nitrogen Inline Radiator is in a different category (fuel tanks) than the other 2 Nitrogen Inline Radiators (utility with the rest of the radiators).

[ABZB]

I noticed that in WARP_PLUGIN_SETTINGS, the PartTechUpgrades node lacks the new tweakscale-intended reactor parts.

[Thorbane]

Understand that an accurate estimation is very hard to implement due to all the variables involved (overheating, multiple power usages, heat throttling) but I might give you an thrust estimation based on last achieved maximum thrust. Hopefully this should work.

The thermal management interface displays the generator efficiency at max power, would it be possible to use that to calculate your max sustainable electrical power? Then you could use that minus what is needed for reactor and ship operation to calculate the max sustainable thrust from a plasma thruster.

[MrNukealizer]

Indeed. TweakScale should rescale the radius, if it doesn't, this is exactly the kind of bug you would expect. But small reactors and large reactor are technically the same. I'm missing something here. Exactly what reactor did you test? What large reactor and what small reactors...

one problem with tweakscale is that it is defined as part of tweakscale ScaleExponents

TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS
{
    name = InterstellarTokamakFusionReator
    radius = 1;
    PowerOutput = 5.13;
    resourceRate = 5.13;
    upgradedThermalPower = 3;
    upgradedResourceRate = 3;
    powerRequirements = 3;
}

Notice something weird, it mentions upgradedResourceRate and upgradedThermalPower, but these do not exist. I assumed this was not harmful, but I'm now starting to doubt. In the past I had problems with InterstellarTokamakFusionReator, as well, related with upgraded power in the VAB, I though I had solved it, at least in the VAB. Perhaps I was wrong.

I haven't had a chance to test multiple reactors yet. I only used the Large Fusion Reactor (the one that corresponds to the config in your post) when I noticed the problem. I used both sizes of generator though. I haven't specifically checked them, but I don't remember having this problem with Gas Core Reactors.

I'm not sure why you say the small reactors are the same as the large one. Looking through the configs, the OMEGA Fusion Reactor has an inertial confinement reactor module while the Large Fusion Reactor has a tokamak reactor module.

I thought of another angle: Maybe the radius of the reactor scales correctly but the radius of the generator scales with an exponent greater than 1. That would cause it to think it's bigger than a 5m reactor before it even hits 3.75m. I can't check right now though.

Speaking of the radius property, isn't the size of parts the diameter rather than the radius? I doubt it matters with the way you use it, but I could see that messing up calculations such as radiator surface area or exit area of engines.

FreeThinker, please.

I have reinstalled your mod three times and the reactors are still stuck at kW power levels. I am absolutely certain that there are no 'Near Future' mod folders in my GameData. I even deleted the near future integration file you had in the WarpPlugin folder.

What do I do?!

Do you have SETI? That's the other mod that causes the power scaling.

If that's not the cause, could you list what mods you do have? There could be something else changing KSPI.

Edited April 9, 2015 by MrNukealizer

[FreeThinker]

I identified and fixed the problem, it was indeed the radius. Somehow it is missing even-though it it defined in ScaleComponents.cfg. I guess it's the false properties that are corrupting Theakscale functionality.

Fortunately there is a very simple fix, simply add it!

@TWEAKSCALEEXPONENTS[InterstellarTokamakFusionReator]:FOR[WarpPlugin]
{
    @PowerOutput = 3.2
    @powerRequirements = 3.2
    partMass = 2.5    
    upgradedPowerOutput = 3.2
    [B]radius = 1[/B]
}

That slves our problem. Tomorrow I will upload the fixed version.

- - - Updated - - -

FreeThinker, please.

I have reinstalled your mod three times and the reactors are still stuck at kW power levels. I am absolutely certain that there are no 'Near Future' mod folders in my GameData. I even deleted the near future integration file you had in the WarpPlugin folder.

What do I do?!

Make sure there is no USI_NF_Mode.cfg anywhere in your GameData folder or subfolders, perhaps you installed it somewhere without knowing

THere is also another simple explanation why you see those number, you are supplying insufficient power. Note that you need to supply 10% of the output of the Fusion Reactor, otherwise, the plasma doesn't fuse resulting in very low power output.

[MatterBeam]

Make sure there is no USI_NF_Mode.cfg anywhere in your GameData folder or subfolders, perhaps you installed it somewhere without knowing

THere is also another simple explanation why you see those number, you are supplying insufficient power. Note that you need to supply 10% of the output of the Fusion Reactor, otherwise, the plasma doesn't fuse resulting in very low power output.

Thank you!

There was a copy of that file that had been renamed and wasn't being replaced by successive re-installs. Problem fixed

[UnanimousCoward]

Hi

Is it intentional that the radiators are practically useless at the beginning of the game? Trying to create a satellite with just 2 small solar panels, and even 12 radial radiators isn't enough to dissipate all the heat:

Or is it that I don't really need to worry about using radiators unless the helper is showing red?

Edited April 10, 2015 by UnanimousCoward

[FreeThinker]

Well the first generation radiators are not very efficient. They are also only good enough for use in the atmosphere.

[UnanimousCoward]

Well the first generation radiators are not very efficient. They are also only good enough for use in the atmosphere.

Yeah, I understood they're better in the atmosphere.

Can I just not bother adding radiators as long as the thermal helper is showing yellow? Or will my satellites eventually shut down for a while due to waste heat?

Adding about 15 radial radiators or several 2.5 m inline radiators to get the thermal helper in the green doesn’t seem practical.

[FreeThinker]

Yeah, I understood they're better in the atmosphere.

Can I just not bother adding radiators as long as the thermal helper is showing yellow? Or will my satellites eventually shut down for a while due to waste heat

Well since I haven't implemented Background processing yet, they should be fine as long as you don't keep them in focus for several months

- - - Updated - - -

I would advise providing players with a pop-up message. And keeping the penalty very small- not more than 5-10 Reputation points (which, with the appropriate strategy, can actually convert to quite a few Science points on a mission- or quite a large discount on a new tech-node at R&D...) for most larger/heavier launches (and less for smaller ones).

in 0.8.12 lauching a 2.5m rocket into orbit full with Hydrazine costed me 10 Reputation. I'm planning or reducing this by half and completely remove the reputation cost for using Ammonia since it would be too low to be significant

Edited April 10, 2015 by FreeThinker

[UnanimousCoward]

Well since I haven't implemented Background processing yet, they should be fine as long as you don't keep them in focus for several months

OK. Cheers for the quick response. If/when you do implement background processing, it would be nice if there was a practical solution to dissipating waste heat from early game satellites/probes.

Thanks for all your work on this mod.

[FreeThinker]

I noticed that in WARP_PLUGIN_SETTINGS, the PartTechUpgrades node lacks the new tweakscale-intended reactor parts.

Good point, I will fix it, perhaps it will help some people

[FreeThinker]

[h=2]Version 0.8.13 for Kerbal Space Program 0.90[/h] Released on 2015-04-10

• Fixed Tweakscale Power Issie with Large Fusion reactors (larger than 2.5m)
  
• Lowered Toxicity Hydozine by 50% and removed Toxicity from Ammonia
  
• Cleaned GUI Reactors
  
• Matched alternative upgrade techs with tweakable parts
  

[Svm420]

I am getting some log spam that I am trying to pin down. I just recently updated so I thought this mod may be related. If you think it may be related Ill uplaod the file.

ArgumentException: An element with the same key already exists in the dictionary.
  at System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[System.String,System.String].Add (System.String key, System.String value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at FNPlugin.PluginHelper.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[FreeThinker]

I am getting some log spam that I am trying to pin down. I just recently updated so I thought this mod may be related. If you think it may be related Ill uplaod the file.

ArgumentException: An element with the same key already exists in the dictionary.
  at System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[System.String,System.String].Add (System.String key, System.String value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at FNPlugin.PluginHelper.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Oops, I think I know what went wrong, going to fix it ASAP

- - - Updated - - -

Version 0.8.14 for Kerbal Space Program 0.90

Released on 2015-04-10

• Fixed Exception spam at startup
  

[MrNukealizer]

Looking good! I would like to help fix some bugs I've found, then put in a pull request in your GitHub repository. Would that work for you? I don't want to waste my time.

Also, I think there are some files you include in the downloads that aren't in the repository. Specifically the configs for NFT-E, Non-Androgynous Docking Ports, whatever TweakScale changes you made, etc. It would really help people help you if all the files were there. Regardless, good work.

[lurkoholic]

Well the first generation radiators are not very efficient. They are also only good enough for use in the atmosphere.

Did this change recently? I don't think I've needed more than one small radiator for a probe at 1AU, but I am using 64K, if that makes a difference.

[Thorbane]

Is anyone else having problems getting the alternate fuel modes of the fusion reactors to work properly? (Also we lack stack He3 cyrostats)

Also how is surface resource extraction handled?

Edited April 11, 2015 by Thorbane

[Thorbane]

... Note that you need to supply 10% of the output of the Fusion Reactor, otherwise, the plasma doesn't fuse resulting in very low power output.

Does this need to be provided by a different reactor? Because it seems that's what's required, but realistically it should be self sustaining (ie. additional power only required for startup, assuming you use the reactor to generate electrical power).

Also having multiple plasma thrusters causes problems.

One pulls more power than the other and you start spinning.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Thorbane

[FreeThinker]

Looking good! I would like to help fix some bugs I've found, then put in a pull request in your GitHub repository. Would that work for you? I don't want to waste my time.

Also, I think there are some files you include in the downloads that aren't in the repository. Specifically the configs for NFT-E, Non-Androgynous Docking Ports, whatever TweakScale changes you made, etc. It would really help people help you if all the files were there. Regardless, good work.

All help is more than welcome. This mods is actually too big to maintain by a single person

- - - Updated - - -

Is anyone else having problems getting the alternate fuel modes of the fusion reactors to work properly? (Also we lack stack He3 cyrostats)

Also how is surface resource extraction handled?

Well I can fix this, I will make the Deuterium/Tritium tank tank switchable

- - - Updated - - -

Also having multiple plasma thrusters causes problems.

http://i.imgur.com/LrBh7Eg.png

One pulls more power than the other and you start spinning.

This is a known issue that is caused by how the Power model functions. The plasma thrusters request the total amount of generated power and then assumes it is all available for propulsion. Which was never the case but fission makes the problem worse. I will see if I can somehow adres this problem. As a layer you can counter it by lowering power requirements (=throttle)

- - - Updated - - -

Does this need to be provided by a different reactor? Because it seems that's what's required, but realistically it should be self sustaining (ie. additional power only required for startup, assuming you use the reactor to generate electrical power).

Well it is assumed that you need a strong external power source to start a reactor. Then the reactor should produce enough power to sustain it's own fusion, but it always requires power to do so. I'm not sure if this is realistic or not. This is how it currently works.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I think there are some files you include in the downloads that aren't in the repository. Specifically the configs for NFT-E, Non-Androgynous Docking Ports, whatever TweakScale changes you made, etc. It would really help people help you if all the files were there. Regardless, good work.

Alright, I uploaded all files

- - - Updated - - -

Did this change recently? I don't think I've needed more than one small radiator for a probe at 1AU, but I am using 64K, if that makes a difference.

No it shouldn't, the calculation for radiators needed seems bugged.

Edited April 11, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Nansuchao]

I tried the same configuration for my last SSTO. A D/T Vista plus two Plasma Thruster but I haven't any issue. The energy was splitted by 50/50 ratio.

[FreeThinker]

Alright, I fixed the Plasma Thrust balance Issue in combination with Fusion reactors:

Notice that it now also correctly scales power if you mixing Plasma Thrusters with different sizes. I'm using 2x 1.25m thrusters and 2x 0.625m thrusters. each 1.25m thruster receives 44.4% of power while the 0.625 only receive 5.56% of avialable power

I also fixed the fusion energy warning message, which was incorrectly displayed

Edited April 11, 2015 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

[h=2]Version 0.8.15 for Kerbal Space Program 0.90[/h] Released on 2015-04-11

• Fixed distribution of power over multiple Plasma engines with Fusion reactors
  
• Supports power balancing over mixed sized plasma thruster
  
• Added Fuel switch to Deuterium/Tritium Cryostat which allows storage of Helium3
  

[Yemo]

Hey,

I tried changing the rad_hardness, but to no avail. I can neither change nor delete the module per MM statement.

This is what I tried for delete+replace, the effect was, that 2 module where present, one with the old value and one with the arbitrary value set below.

I guess the plugin runs after the MM patches, which is necessary to use values which are changed by MM.

But unfortunately it also means, that this MODULE is created only after the MM works.

I m not good enough at coding to know whether it is easier to shift this module creation before the MM, or replacing the creation functionality with an MM patch entirely.

Also, I noticed that the 2.5m Nitrogen Inline Radiator is in a different category (fuel tanks) than the other 2 Nitrogen Inline Radiators (utility with the rest of the radiators).

As an alternative, the adding module code could just be deactivated if the SETI folder is detected in GameData?

So if SETI is not there, it would work as before without MM. And SETI would add the module by MM.

[FreeThinker]

As an alternative, the adding module code could just be deactivated if the SETI folder is detected in GameData?

So if SETI is not there, it would work as before without MM. And SETI would add the module by MM.

Note: there is an exiting WarpPluginSetting called RadiationMechanicsDisabled, which if true will disable all Radiation calculations. By default, this is set to true. Note that even is active, the radiation doesn't have any real effect. I disabled it because of that and it also cause problems with people with extended planet packs installed