KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[FreeThinker]

Well technically it is exactly like this if you replace the Real Resource by KSP Resources (HTP =Hydrogen Peroxide , Hydrazine => Mono-propellant, LqdHyrogen => LiquidFuel, LqdOxygen => Oxidiser). Technically someone with a MM script could do this. The only problem is that it would horrible overpower KSPI, as it's design around real resources which have lower density more difficult storage requirements. You would therefore also need to nerve down everything.

Edited May 11, 2015 by FreeThinker

[Neouni]

Well technically it is exactly like this if you replace the Real Resource by KSP Resources (Hydrogen Peroxide => HTP, Hydrazine => Monopropellant, LqdHyrogen => LiquidFuel, LqdOxygen => Oxidiser). Technically someone with a MM script could do this. The only problem is that it would horrible overpower KSPI, as it's design around real resources which have lower density more difficult storage requirments. You would therfore also need to nerve down everything.

That just leaves KSPi on the shortlist to be removed I guess,

since it doesn't play well with ksp or other mods and wants to create it's own game

[PlayMp1]

Okay, I can't tell if I'm being a moron, but I can't seem to get the Thermal Rocket Nozzle to produce any thrust with any fuel except Hydrolox (which of course has pretty poor dV). I have it attached to an unupgraded Gas Core reactor and I've tried every other form of fuel, and none of them work. That said, I am trying this from the launchpad. I need to know if this is working as intended, where the fuels don't work on the surface of Kerbin, or not.

[FreeThinker]

hmm? You mean if it works as written in the update explanation? or is the function useful?

In the former meaning, it works as written.

For the latter meaning, my old hydrazine-ATTILA rocket needs to limit thrust because of the too high TWR at max thrust. But that means I can make orbit with low-thrust high-ISP fuel. So changing fuel should help increase delta-V.

oh, and Unless I limit thrust, it works poorly with mechjeb autopilot. But that not a big problem since mechjeb hates variable-thrust engines any way.

Is this what you mean? sorry if this isn't it.

I guess the combination of ATILA Lower BaseIsp with Hydrazine thrust bonus can result in spectacular thrust. Any Idea that would be a good upper limit in terms of power consumper / thrust?

The problem might not be that they are too powerfull. It might be that the technology is available too early. Instead of nerving them, I'm thinking about balancing them like the other engines, which is to unlock higher performance with higher tech nodes. I could unlock ArcJet Variable Isp with Advanced Gridded Thrusters (1500 science) and Variable Plasma Thrusters Isp with Advanced Electromagnetic Systems (2250 science). The Plasma Thrusters ability to use vacuum plasma could be unlocked with Specialized Plasma Generation (4000 science. This would be a nice reason research those techs.

Edited May 11, 2015 by FreeThinker

[NeoAcario]

Well technically it is exactly like this if you replace the Real Resource by KSP Resources (Hydrogen Peroxide => HTP, Hydrazine => Monopropellant, LqdHyrogen => LiquidFuel, LqdOxygen => Oxidiser). Technically someone with a MM script could do this. The only problem is that it would horrible overpower KSPI, as it's design around real resources which have lower density more difficult storage requirments. You would therfore also need to nerve down everything.

Have you considered making some tweaks to this version of KSPI to play a bit better with all of the new features in KSP 1.0? I've always preferred to play without TOO many mods... but I really enjoy the potential level of complexity/difficulty that KSPI can add.

~Steve

[FreeThinker]

Have you considered making some tweaks to this version of KSPI to play a bit better with all of the new features in KSP 1.0? I've always preferred to play without TOO many mods... but I really enjoy the potential level of complexity/difficulty that KSPI can add.

~Steve

Well, if you have an bright idea, bring it forward! I'm know to have implemented many ideas into KSPI

Edited May 11, 2015 by FreeThinker

[etheoma]

It should work, but perhaps you need some power tot start the reaction. You need 500 MW to start the fusion reaction.

The KTEC solid generator doesn't work unless you have another generator or reactor, and you can't use electric charge if you had enough to start it up which you could do in the old KSPI so I assume this is a bug.

Anyway something else I noticed while testing is that the radiators are not compatible with NuFAR

I assume its because of the transformation. Not something that is of high priority right now I know as getting the core mod working 100% on its own is your first priority but I thought I would mention it anyway.

Edited May 11, 2015 by etheoma

[FreeThinker]

The KTEC solid generator doesn't work unless you have another generator or reactor, and you can't use electric charge if you had enough to start it up which you could do in the old KSPI so I assume this is a bug.

No it's not, it's a realism feature. You also have to take into account the performance of many reactors are significantly higher. This was a precondition for making it more realistic which in the case of fusion reactor, makes it significantly harder. You are not supposed to be able to start a fusion engine using a battery, you going to need at least another nuclear reactor to do it.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway something else I noticed while testing is that the radiators are not compatible with NuFAR

I assume its because of the transformation. Not something that is of high priority right now I know as getting the core mod working 100% on its own is your first priority but I thought I would mention it anyway.

Well I don't know anything about modeling, or how to improve it. So I would really appreciate if someone who does, will.

[Sekmeth]

I made CKAN metadata files for this mod. Here is Github repo: https://github.com/A2K/KSP_InterstellarExtended_CKAN

Installation instructions (advanced):

• Simply add the github URL to CKAN as metadata repository and look for "Interstellar Extended" in mod list
  

Installation instructions (simplified):

1. Click menu: Setting > CKAN Settings
   
2. Click "New" under "Metadata repositories"
   
3. Copy this into input line on the bottom on the window which just appeared:

   Interstellar Extended | https://github.com/A2K/KSP_InterstellarExtended_CKAN/archive/master.zip

   and click "OK"
   

4. Close "Settings" window and click "Refresh" on the toolbar
   
5. Now "Interstellar Extended" should be available to install in mod list, simply install it like any other mod.
   

The mod installed in such way seems to work correctly (game does not crash and lots of new parts are available), but I am new to KSP and I don't know what exactly this mod is supposed to add to game, so some stuff could be missing. This method does not install that weird toolbar, extended filters, TechManager, and fuel switch mods. I don't know if those mods are required for Interstellar to work correctly.

Your CKAN installation has CommunityTechTree and CommunityResourcePack included instead of marked as a dependancy. THis makes it very fickly to install if you have any other mods that are dependant on those two mods. Easily fixable by setting them as a prerequisite instead of including them.

Besides that nice work getting this awesome mod on CKAN, and awesome work to the developers of this mod =)

EDIT/UPDATE:

Here is a link to CKAN, shows you how to add dependencies :

https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/CKAN-support/wiki/Adding-a-mod-to-the-CKAN

Edited May 11, 2015 by Sekmeth
Additional information

[NeoAcario]

Well, if you have an bright idea, bring it forward!

I'm just about to start playing with KSPI Extended.. first time since 0.9... so we'll see how it goes.

Right off the top of my head: Have you added a KSPI module to the in game ISRU to do KSPI reactions? Have you integrated requiring the now in-game drills to extract mineral resources?

I was very pleased to see on the front page that a few parts are now scale-able.. instead of having everything of each size. I recall KSPI having quite a bit of part bloat, that was pleasant to see. Are there any other parts worthy of merging? I'll get back to you with any other ideas I have once I start playing with KSPI Extended here in about an hour.

I should also probably apologize for never trying this while Fractal_UK was still more or less around. I'm glad you stuck with it and took the time to keep it compatible and even fixed a few issues and (it seems) revert that horrible thermal nozzle nerf.

~Steve

[etheoma]

No it's not, it's a realism feature. You also have to take into account the performance of many reactors are significantly higher. This was a precondition for making it more realistic which in the case of fusion reactor, makes it significantly harder. You are not supposed to be able to start a fusion engine using a battery, you going to need at least another nuclear reactor to do it.

- - - Updated - - -

Well I don't know anything about modeling, or how to improve it. So I would really appreciate if someone who does, will.

Well atleast for the test fusion reactor in the the UK they do actually use a battery bank to store energy from the grid for tests so... Its more because the energy demand is so high that it would put a strain on the infrastructure. But at the same time if you have enough energy to power the reactor you have enough energy to power the reactor, if you want to raise the bar for initiating fusion that's fine but artificially creating a way in which you can't do it is not realistic because I might have a battery bank of 100k or something like that which should easily be able to start a fusion reaction, especially in a large array of fusion reactors it would be easy to have enough electric charge to start 1 then activate the rest.

Do what you want but I wouldn't use realism as the excuse, game play sure that's a valid reason but realism it is not. Having enough electric charge the reactor for 30 seconds or even 1 minute would effectively have the same effect and is somewhat realistic as although as keep the reaction going should not take that much power starting the reaction should require a large amount of power because at first you have to heat the fuel to 10x the temp of the sun after that though the energy produced by heats inside the reactor is enough.

And I should say that a fission reaction is not enough to create those kind of temps. Modern fission reactors only run at around 300C and proposed molten salt reactors would only run at 650C. You would need to turn this into electricity and focus the energy to start a fusion reactor so not being able to start the fusion reaction from electric charge makes no sense what so ever as long as you have enough of it, in fact the only real way to store enough energy to initiate fusion reactor portably would be with high capacity capacitors or high output batteries AND an constant energy source.

As I said Game play is a valid reason but realism is not.

Also I should mention there are solutions for high capacity capacitors graphene capacitors are one root which you could output enough energy for just about long enough that would be compact and light enough to actually do it, obviously there is a higher leakage than batteries but really its the only way to do it.

Edited May 11, 2015 by etheoma

[FreeThinker]

Okay, I can't tell if I'm being a moron, but I can't seem to get the Thermal Rocket Nozzle to produce any thrust with any fuel except Hydrolox (which of course has pretty poor dV). I have it attached to an unupgraded Gas Core reactor and I've tried every other form of fuel, and none of them work. That said, I am trying this from the launchpad. I need to know if this is working as intended, where the fuels don't work on the surface of Kerbin, or not.

THey work exactly as they should, the problem is you are using a High Temperature Reactor (which causes high Isp) with a Nozzle which is optimized for Vacuum Isp. Even though you are using a 1.5 GW reactor, due to the Large exist nozzle size, the atmospheric presure is actually higher than the Static presure possible by this Reactor + Nozzle Size. To Fix it, you got 2 options: make the nozzle smaller (using tweakscale) in the VAB (which also predicts your thrust) or replace the Gas Core Reactor by a reactor is optimized for High thrust (instead o High Isp but low thrust) like the Particle Reactor. I understand you didn't know this because KSP doesn't teach the physics correctly. I need to add some status message telling people static pressure is too High.

- - - Updated - - -

Well atleast for the test fusion reactor in the the UK they do actually use a battery bank to store energy from the grid for tests so... Its more because the energy demand is so high that it would put a strain on the infrastructure. But at the same time if you have enough energy to power the reactor you have enough energy to power the reactor, if you want to raise the bar for initiating fusion that's fine but artificially creating a way in which you can't do it is not realistic because I might have a battery bank of 100k or something like that which should easily be able to start a fusion reaction, especially in a large array of fusion reactors it would be easy to have enough electric charge to start 1 then activate the rest.

Well, I intend to create some High Power capacitors in the future which you can charge using Electric Charge and then release to start the fusion process. But the currently Ksp batteries are simply not supposed to release 500 MW in a split second.

Edit : I think about this a bit longer and I think I can implement a Jump start button which becomes available when you have enough Battery Charge Power (1/20 * 500 MW) to start the fusion process. At least that way, it won't drain all your battery power if you don't have enough charge to start it.

Edited May 11, 2015 by FreeThinker

[ABZB]

yeah - back in .25, I installed the capacitors from Nearfuture exclusively for that very reason (well, mainly that when the fusion reactor was off, I often had no battery either).

[etheoma]

Well, I intend to create some High Power capacitors in the future which you can charge using Electric Charge and then release to start the fusion process. But the currently Ksp batteries are simply not supposed to release 500 MW in a split second.

Edit : I think about this a bit longer and I think I can implement a Jump start button which becomes available when you have enough Batter Charge Power (1/20 * 500 MW) to start the fusion process. At least that way, it won't drain all your battery power if you don't have enough charge to start it.

When you put it that way I do agree that KSP batteries should no be able to release even like 100th of there charge in 1 second, but as long as you have plans in the works for high capacity capacitors I don't really have a problem with batteries not working at all, and the leakage would mean you would at least have to have batteries to keep the capacitors topped off.

That's the solution I would like at least so that both batteries and capacitors are useful, Capacitors with lower capacity, lose charge over time but can discharge extremely quickly were as batteries have higher capacity, do not lose charge at least as quickly "because I do think batteries should lose charge over time" but cannot discharge or charge more than like 500th of there charge per second.

Although batteries should last like 3 - 5 years from 100% charge to 0%, where as I would like to see capacitors lose there charge in like an hour maybe 4 hours.

Edited May 11, 2015 by etheoma

[FreeThinker]

Also I should mention there are solutions for high capacity capacitors graphene capacitors are one root which you could output enough energy for just about long enough that would be compact and light enough to actually do it, obviously there is a higher leakage than batteries but really its the only way to do it.

I would be nice if someone created a model for this.

[marzharkon]

That's hard to answer but I suggest you wait a little with CKAN support, I'm close to a full Beta Release which no longer requires Boris 0.90 Port.

I understand people are Impatient, but doing it faster won't speed up anything

I will wait patiently I love this mod and will start using it again as soon as you update it all

Keep up the fantastic work!

[etheoma]

I would be nice if someone created a model for this.

Well if its something you could do just by rewriting the .cfg you could use the stock battery model for now and just give them different properties, just as a place holder.

Although I would suggest an increase in mass as the stock batteries are still too light, also having the capacitors discharge quickly could also add to your waste heat not something that needs to be implemented but it would be realistic.

Also the jump start button when you get the capacitors could work with batteries and capacitors to take charge slowly from the batteries and charge up the capacitor, also a button on the capacitor to charge it or discharge to batteries would be nice if you do end up implementing the capacitors not being able to hold charge well.

Edited May 11, 2015 by etheoma

[NeoAcario]

I will wait patiently I love this mod and will start using it again as soon as you update it all

Keep up the fantastic work!

Oh, he's working on a stand alone version? I'll just wait then, I suppose.

~Steve

[FreeThinker]

[h=2]Version 1.0.13 for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.2[/h] Released on 2015-05-11

• Updated CRP to 0.4.1
  
• Added Warp Icon for KSPI Filter Extensions
  
• Fixed some Model scaling
  
• Fixed some minor Tweak Scale Issues
  
• Cleaned some files
  

[etheoma]

[h=2]Version 1.0.13 for Kerbal Space Program 1.0.2[/h] Released on 2015-05-11

• Updated CRP to 0.4.1
  
• Added Warp Icon for KSPI Filter Extensions
  
• Fixed some Model scaling
  
• Fixed some minor Tweak Scale Issues
  
• Cleaned some files
  

Just encase the Omega fusion reactor still reactors still shows up as being 1.25m when the its actually 1.875m, and not the KSPI number show it up as being 1.25 m when its actually 1.875 which means when you scale it down to 1.25m it shows up as 0.805m in the KSPI numbers which means the power output is reduced to 122.2MW power output and 293.5 Thermal output.

Where as at 1.25m it should be 500MW power output and 1200MW thermal output. I know you probably know this but I just wanted to make sure.

Although the Tweekscales and KSPI numbers now match up but when I say its actually 1.875m I mean the model that shows up in the editor and in-flight is 1.875m

As I said I'm sure your aware and working on it but I wasn't 100% clear so I thought I would reiterate.

Although not being able to scale it down is fixed now so I assume that was what you were talking about. Also why is the Omega fusion reactor so expensive, its more expensive than the full sized reactor at 1,000,000 for the Omega fusion reactor and 100,000 for the normal fusion reactor.

Actually taking a closer look at the prices of the reactors there all over the place you have the Antimatter reactor at 50k then the Gas Core Reactor at 1.55 million, which seems a little backwards.

Ok looking into it even more.

Deuterium/Tritium Radial Cyrostat 1.3 million

Helium 3 Radial Cryostat 630k

Large Antimatter Containment Device 8.12M

Small Antimatter containment drive 1.03M

Therium Terraflouride (ThF4) Tank 572k

DT Vista Inertial Fusion Engine 490k

Alcubierre Drives

1.25 - 11.25 mill

2.5m - 4.5 mill

3.75m - 13.5 mill

I get the last three should maybe in the realms of 500k - 2 mill but that's going a little far, I assume you haven't done price balancing yet and some of the old prices are leaking though from KSPI before Career mode.

Although I do think some things need a price increase, because KSPI parts should be more expensive than stock by quite a bit and you should have to be smart with how you use reactors and engines as they are complicated prices of hardware which should be recovered / reused, for example I don't actually have a problem with the DT Vista Inertial Fusion Engine being as expensive as it is, its just its completely out of wack with everything else.

Edit: sorry my bad in the end if you actually put the fuel parts on they are not that expensive.

Edited May 11, 2015 by etheoma

[MatterBeam]

Just a bit of feedback:

-loving the extra tabs in the parts menu.

-I don't think tech node placement of the parts can get any better

-just wondering if we can select kW/MW/GW power scales for the reactors ourselves instead of adjusting automatically for other mods (such as NF-E), or if we had some sort of config file where we could put in our own power scale/multipliers.

[Nubage]

Something i clearly not installed correctly. Most likely you ModuleManager isn't up to date.

Module manager 2.6.3 installed. I even went back and downloaded a new KSP 1.0.2, installed KSPI extended and made sure module manager was installed. Nothing. Any other ideas? to be clear, the parts appear in the career tech tree, but I only get interstellar fuel tanks in the sandbox mode.

[NeoAcario]

...I know you haven't done a price balance yet but I was more just laughing about how stupid expensive some things are.

You want to afford a warp drive for every ship? Change the price.

Credits in game are infinite and very easy to get. I do agree with you about the AM magnetic containment (storage containers), but yeah... I too would eventually love a cost balance pass.

Well, until I 100% the K3 area... then screw it. I'll add KSPI and deal with it.

Keep up the good work, FreeThinker!

~Steve

EDIT:

Quick question: Does this mod already have zzz's collapsible warp drive models? If not, why not?

Edited May 12, 2015 by NeoAcario

[etheoma]

You want to afford a warp drive for every ship? Change the price.

Credits in game are infinite and very easy to get. I do agree with you about the AM magnetic containment (storage containers), but yeah... I too would eventually love a cost balance pass.

Well, until I 100% the K3 area... then screw it. I'll add KSPI and deal with it.

Keep up the good work, FreeThinker!

~Steve

EDIT:

Quick question: Does this mod already have zzz's collapsible warp drive models? If not, why not?

Well considering the cost of antimatter reactors fusion reactors etc excluding the Omega fusion reactor and Gas Core Reactor and Antimatter Imitated Reactor 2 million is way more than any other part.

Tbh I'm not so much worried about the price of stuff except maybe the Omega Fusion reactor being 500k - 1.55M its just when everything else is SOOOOO cheap in comparison it makes absoultely no sense for the warp drive to be SOOOO expensive, when your talking about the thing that powers it the antimatter reactor being 50k and the warp drive its self being 14 million that's just plain stupid.

If the antimatter reactor were even 500k to 1 million it would make some sense but it being out by a factor of 280 times 50k vs 14 million its just ridiculous.

[stringfields]

The problem might not be that they are too powerfull. It might be that the technology is available too early. Instead of nerving them, I'm thinking about balancing them like the other engines, which is to unlock higher performance with higher tech nodes. I could unlock ArcJet Variable Isp with Advanced Gridded Thrusters (1500 science) and Variable Plasma Thrusters Isp with Advanced Electromagnetic Systems (2250 science). The Plasma Thrusters ability to use vacuum plasma could be unlocked with Specialized Plasma Generation (4000 science. This would be a nice reason research those techs.

I agree to add new tech nodes but isn't the science needed a bit too steep? I know it's a end game content but by the time I acquire all the KSPI tech I'll have nothing to do with it. It would be nice if you put the needed science for this new tech down a tier.

By the way, what's up with the aluminum hybrid engine in the newest update? The connection nodes are too offset and floating in air! Plz fix:confused: