Spaceplane off EVE!!??

[qzgy]

31 minutes ago, herbal space program said:

Solar panels don't work? On Kerbin those provided plenty of power for a copter when I tried it before. I was able to pretty high up that way IIRC.

Don't those also cause drag though, something we want to avoid on Eve?

But yeah, those might work too, apart from the requirement for sunlight.

[sevenperforce]

1 hour ago, qzgy said:

Don't those also cause drag though, something we want to avoid on Eve?

But yeah, those might work too, apart from the requirement for sunlight.

I thought there was virtually no sunlight on Eve's surface.

[herbal space program]

3 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

I thought there was virtually no sunlight on Eve's surface.

That's news to me, but then I haven't been on Eve since like 0.90.....

[qzgy]

2 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

I thought there was virtually no sunlight on Eve's surface.

Hmm, never really seriously been there, let me check.

Well, it seems the big static solar panels optimally generate a little less than 3/5 of the EC generated in orbit. This is also while being pointed directly at the sun, in both cases.

 

[herbal space program]

33 minutes ago, qzgy said:

Hmm, never really seriously been there, let me check.

Well, it seems the big static solar panels optimally generate a little less than 3/5 of the EC generated in orbit. This is also while being pointed directly at the sun, in both cases.

 

I wouldn't have noticed that doing what I was doing, so I'm guessing it's the same since the last time I went there.

[sdj64]

1 hour ago, sevenperforce said:

I thought there was virtually no sunlight on Eve's surface.

Environmental Visual Enhancements causes that, at least visually?  Yet the solar panels still produce some electricity.  The main problem with solar powered propellers is that your solar panels have to be on the propeller shaft, so they're spinning around and not always facing the sun.  Say you have 8 of them and at any given moment, 1 is facing directly into the sun, 2 are facing at a 45 degree angle, the other 5 can't see the sun at all.  So for the weight of 8, you get the generation of 2.4 panels.  That's bad for any plane, never mind an Eve plane.

You might be able to save overall weight with a disposable propeller and wings, then a rocket second stage.  I don't think you could SSTO, the propeller would be too draggy in the upper atmosphere.

 

Spaceplane landing on Eve, that's a good idea (to aim for a landing spot).  But I dropped the wings before taking off.

Edited June 28, 2017 by sdj64

[Dark Lion]

On 6/16/2017 at 0:48 AM, Arugela said:

But it's just nagging me how easily this could be missed given how little people understand space planes and how much Delta V you can really skim off with a space plane if you actually do the calculations. If you do sufficient wing load and sufficient thrust to weight especially.

"given how little people understand space planes"

Which computer are you having problems with again? Maybe your processor isn't pushing the required hertz... Mine hertz juts trying to figure out if this is a challenge or a discussion. Maybe a challenge discussion. 

To be clear: I've tried this "SSTO to Eve and back" a fair few times now, with a variety of craft. The only success I've ever had left staging junk all over Eve, all the way back to Kerbin, thus, not an SSTO. The bigger spaceplanes want to burn up in atmo and the smaller ones just don't have the fuel capacity to even bother. Verdict? Face it: you're gonna lose money on Eve missions EVEry time.

[GoSlash27]

 As the others have said, SSTO spaceplanes do not "reduce the ⌂V required", they actually increase it. The reason they reduce the fuel mass required on Kerbin is the fact that they use air-breathing engines for most of the velocity.

 An SSTO from Eve is just barely possible if you launch it from a mountaintop, but that's a vertical lifter. A spaceplane to do the same thing is a flat- out impossibility.

Best,
-Slashy

[WinkAllKerb'']

45 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

Best,
-Slashy

senpaï , it's a long road you k ^^

[fourfa]

It seems like the OP is still confused as to the difference between delta-V, and raw propellant mass.  The discussion will continue spinning in the mud until this is corrected.

[BlackWise]

Your post inspired me to create this. Very efficient design, this craft is a SSTO on Kerbin and can reach orbit on Eve from alsmot sea level altitude. Having 0.65 Eve TWR its a true spaceplane.

Edited February 5, 2020 by BlackWise

[Muetdhiver]

I think that for Eve a Roton type rocket or an electric prop space plane makes a whole lot more sense than a mamoth or vector powered spaceplane.

However, propeller/helo blades will be a nightmare to get intact to eve surface ^^

 

[Jetski]

Check out this work of art - last video of the 3 around 6:45 @Kergarin does a lovely Eve SSTO.  It looks like the trick is you can shield the rotor blades inside a 2.5m Service Bay.  This changes everything lol

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Jetski

[Arugela]

I was thinking the new fuel dump thing, if it works on eve, might work well with prop planes and extend fuel efficiency off eve. Would Eve allow air intakes to spit out stuff regardless of not being a pure oxygen atmosphere?

Edited February 23, 2020 by Arugela

[Jetski]

17 hours ago, Arugela said:

I was thinking the new fuel dump thing, if it works on eve, might work well with prop planes and extend fuel efficiency off eve. Would Eve allow air intakes to spit out stuff regardless of not being a pure oxygen atmosphere?

Air intakes on Eve unfortunately do not produce the IntakeAir resource that is used for the drains exploit.  I'll stand corrected if someone wants to test it, but when you fire up a jet engine on Eve it gives the message "no IntakeAir"

[Arugela]

2 hours ago, Jetski said:

Air intakes on Eve unfortunately do not produce the IntakeAir resource that is used for the drains exploit.  I'll stand corrected if someone wants to test it, but when you fire up a jet engine on Eve it gives the message "no IntakeAir"

That kind of sucks considering it should be able to take in any gas or atmosphere to do it. But not activate the engines from lack of oxygen. If balanced correctly it could be used to get small paylods of eve and make it a little nicer to use. Then tylo would be harder. Or at least harder for spaceplanes.

They could even change the output based on the atmosphere gas or something. Then not all atmospheres are equal for thrust. We could use it in jools atmosphere too.

If it took in any gas would the thicker gases in crease or decrease the output? Would/should you get more or less thrust in eve and jools atmosphere? Would it change at all from different gases realistically. Would it change from different intakes and parts in real life?

Edited February 23, 2020 by Arugela

[sturmhauke]

Certain mods (NF Aero for instance, although it's not updated past 1.7 due to technical issues) will patch intakes to accept the "intakeAtm" resource, which certain mod engines can use. It might also work with the drain bug, but remember that it's a bug and will probably be fixed soon.

[Arugela]

After messing up my eve auto edit it finally blew me up on return to launch.

I am the boulder!!!

https://imgur.com/a/WCNX4yO

It won't give me controls as there is no thrust or controls sadly.

I should have ran it in fast forward. I wonder if there are any secret alien UFO easter eggs or anything.

I don't know the numbers. But a high wing area electric or gas plane could be easily figured out as far as tonnage and weight per cargo ton with minimum parts. I wonder what the sanity level is in general for tonnage off eve with a massive wing bearing plane with props. Electric of course has the advantage of potentially using ion engines. And gas can be minimized for getting of kerbin. But not mined obviously... 8( Hope they add gas mining for ion engines with newer stuff and sun/jool scoops. Of course ion fuel can always be transported to the vehicle and attached via docking ports and changed out if needed. And the wings could be modular and come off for places like tylo.

Has anyone done electric props on jool and eve's atmosphere to adjust velocity? I would think those would be insane in their atmosphere as far as delta v savings go.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Arugela

[Lt_Duckweed]

16 hours ago, Arugela said:

After messing up my eve auto edit it finally blew me up on return to launch.

I am the boulder!!!

https://imgur.com/a/WCNX4yO

It won't give me controls as there is no thrust or controls sadly.

I should have ran it in fast forward. I wonder if there are any secret alien UFO easter eggs or anything.

I don't know the numbers. But a high wing area electric or gas plane could be easily figured out as far as tonnage and weight per cargo ton with minimum parts. I wonder what the sanity level is in general for tonnage off eve with a massive wing bearing plane with props. Electric of course has the advantage of potentially using ion engines. And gas can be minimized for getting of kerbin. But not mined obviously... 8( Hope they add gas mining for ion engines with newer stuff and sun/jool scoops. Of course ion fuel can always be transported to the vehicle and attached via docking ports and changed out if needed. And the wings could be modular and come off for places like tylo.

Has anyone done electric props on jool and eve's atmosphere to adjust velocity? I would think those would be insane in their atmosphere as far as delta v savings go.

As a matter of fact, I have used props in Jool's atmosphere!  As far as I am aware, SSTO from Jool 0 altitude is currently one of the most exclusive clubs in the game, having been done by only 2 or 3 people.

 

[Jetski]

a few thoughts on this: Its not too hard with the DLCs to make a nice little prop plane that can fly indefinitely on Eve. 2 small service bays with rotors inside facing opposite directions (8 blades) makes a good propulsion that will run off a single large fixed solar panel. add a few wings etc, you are good to go. given patience you can nurse it up to 20k or so. the problem is all that lovely lift becomes drag for an ion or chem boost to space. one good point is solar is VERY good on Eve

[kspnerd122]

Use breaking ground this makes it so easy I did it a month after it came out

[Arugela]

What is the maximum payload off eve? Can anyone get 1,000t off eve?

Edited April 1, 2020 by Arugela

[sevenperforce]

6 hours ago, Arugela said:

What is the maximum payload off eve? Can anyone get 1,000t off eve?

No maximum payload. If you want a bigger payload just bring a bigger rocket.