[1.12.2] BARIS - Building A Rocket Isn't Simple

[Qarisma]

It seems like after a few launches the mod stops affecting my vehicles at staging. I can launch my vehicles without integrating with no consequences.

[Angelo Kerman]

1 hour ago, Tyko said:

I installed 1.3.9.3 Pre-Release and found a couple of bugs in the vehicle integration screen of the VAB

1. I'm playing science mode so have 4 bays. The integration dialog box didn't resize to show all 4 bays. It's narrow enough that I can only see about 1.8 bays and the remaining require scrolling to the right.
2. I can't add workers. It says I have 0/50 workers but when I press the "+" button it doesn't increase the number of workers. It stays at 0

Thanks for working on this! It's really cool!

1. The integration screen is narrow to avoid taking up real estate.

2. You add workers from the Space Center, which also shows their cost. For more information, please consult the KSPedia or wiki.

[Geschosskopf]

3 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

1. The integration screen is narrow to avoid taking up real estate.

I noticed another problem with the integration screen.  Suppose you're editing Ship 1 and put it in integration.  If you then open Ship 2 to edit and put it into integration, the integration screen will show the correct name Ship 2 but will show the illustration of Ship 1 which you were editing before.  This is purely cosmetic---at the end of Ship 2's integration, Ship 2 will be ready to go, not Ship 1.  But it is rather confusing.

[Geschosskopf]

On 9/14/2017 at 7:58 AM, Benjamin Kerman said:

Yes there is. I belive it is in the escape menu. 

RE:  Is there a way to change BARIS settings in-game?

Well, I have tried this and it didn't work.  I have ZERO ability to change BARIS settings in-game.  The ONLY time I get to change BARIS settings is at the start of a new game.  If during that game I later want to change BARIS settings, there' is no way to do so from within the game.

• From any in-game screen, if I hit the BARIS button on the stock toolbar, the only things shown deal with integration.  If I'm in the VAB or SPH, I can put designs into integration and assign workers.  I've I'm at the KSC screen, I can hire workers and view the progress of vessels currently in integration.  That's it.
• If I hit ESC / Settings, there is nothing dealing with BARIS at all.  Just an abbreviated list of graphics and sound settings.
• If I hit ESC / Exit to Main Menu / Back / Settings, there is nothing dealing with BARIS at all.  Just the usual things dealing with sound, graphics, keymapping, etc.
• If I hit ESC / Exit to Main Menu / Back / Add-ons & Mods, my browser launches to the KSP Curse page.  Nothing specific to BARIS]

As a result, I cannot play with any of the new settings in the latest version of BARIS without manually editing my persistence file.

So what am I doing wrong here?  When a new version of BARIS comes out, I delete \Game Data\Wildblue\000BARIS before installing the new version, and overwrite any  other files elsewhere (like in the DONOTDELETE folder) that need it.  But it's always the same story.  No in-game way to change settings.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Geschosskopf

[Galileo]

12 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

RE:  Is there a way to change BARIS settings in-game?

Well, I have tried this and it didn't work.  I have ZERO ability to change BARIS settings in-game.  The ONLY time I get to change BARIS settings is at the start of a new game.  If during that game I later want to change BARIS settings, there' is no way to do so from within the game.

• From any in-game screen, if I hit the BARIS button on the stock toolbar, the only things shown deal with integration.  If I'm in the VAB or SPH, I can put designs into integration and assign workers.  I've I'm at the KSC screen, I can hire workers and view the progress of vessels currently in integration.  That's it.
• If I hit ESC / Settings, there is nothing dealing with BARIS at all.  Just an abbreviated list of graphics and sound settings.
• If I hit ESC / Exit to Main Menu / Back / Settings, there is nothing dealing with BARIS at all.  Just the usual things dealing with sound, graphics, keymapping, etc.
• If I hit ESC / Exit to Main Menu / Back / Add-ons & Mods, my browser launches to the KSP Curse page.  Nothing specific to BARIS]

As a result, I cannot play with any of the new settings in the latest version of BARIS without manually editing my persistence file.

So what am I doing wrong here?  When a new version of BARIS comes out, I delete \Game Data\Wildblue\000BARIS before installing the new version, and overwrite any  other files elsewhere (like in the DONOTDELETE folder) that need it.  But it's always the same story.  No in-game way to change settings.

Hit Esc  and go to Settings/ Difficulty Options click BARIS then make your changes.  You do not have to go back to the main menu ever. It says this in the window that opens right at the start of a game. Read that, and you would know. 

[Geschosskopf]

9 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Hit Esc  and go to Settings/ Difficulty Options click BARIS then make your changes.  You do not have to go back to the main menu ever. It says this in the window that opens right at the start of a game. Read that, and you would know. 

Thanks for the tip, but not the snarky comment.  I didn't see the difficulty options button on ESC/Settings, and almost missed it just now even when I was looking for it, apparently because it's a new feature to that menu since last time I played the game.  My brain simply failed to register its presence because it didn't agree with the saved image of that screen in my long-term memory.

But anyway, now that I know, I won't forget.  And all is now good with the world (except parts break and explode).  So thanks.

[Angelo Kerman]

If this feature from the DLC makes its way into the stock game, then my job of managing BARIS will be much easier.

From this week's dev notes:

Quote

In addition, other significant advancements were achieved, like the implementation of failure states for part modules. This will allow Mission Creators to trigger a failure in a specific module during a mission , for example, an Engine-Module can fail by: Shutdown, reduced thrust limit (by %), loss of throttle control, loss of gimbal control, and so on. What made this specific task so laborious was we had to build a list of all modules and their failure possibilities, and as you know, the module’s list is quite big by itself.

@Geschosskopf I'll take a look, I did notice some oddities regarding the thumbnails.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Angel-125

[Geschosskopf]

2 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

If this feature from the DLC makes its way into the stock game, then my job of managing BARIS will be much easier.

From this week's dev notes:

@Geschosskopf I'll take a look, I did notice some oddities regarding the thumbnails.

Exploding pods and heatshields  will always make BARIS distinct  

[toric5]

Is there a way in settings to 'rename' the equipment resource? I am trying to change the equipment resource into matkits, for compatability with MKS.

better yet, can we make the resource needed to repair configurable per module/part? that way, you could have a fuel tank that just needs a patch of metal welded on to be repaired, wheras an ISRU may need Machinery (quite hard to manufacture in MKS) to repair.

[Angelo Kerman]

4 hours ago, toric5 said:

Is there a way in settings to 'rename' the equipment resource? I am trying to change the equipment resource into matkits, for compatability with MKS.

better yet, can we make the resource needed to repair configurable per module/part? that way, you could have a fuel tank that just needs a patch of metal welded on to be repaired, wheras an ISRU may need Machinery (quite hard to manufacture in MKS) to repair.

Equipment is the official repair resource for BARIS, but if you want to use a different resource, such as RocketParts, you can edit MM_BARIS.cfg to add the desired resource to the entries that add ModuleQualityControl. Consult the wiki entry for ModuleQualityControl to find what field you need.

[toric5]

8 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Equipment is the official repair resource for BARIS, but if you want to use a different resource, such as RocketParts, you can edit MM_BARIS.cfg to add the desired resource to the entries that add ModuleQualityControl. Consult the wiki entry for ModuleQualityControl to find what field you need.

ahh, ok. i was confused, as none of the configs in the mod used that line... closing my issue on git, then.

[Assassinsat]

Can someone explain how to design a proper static fire test? Should I just keep the clamps closed on the launchpad and burn the thrusters? If so for how long and how many such tests are ideal before the actual launch?

[Tarheel1999]

10 minutes ago, Assassinsat said:

Can someone explain how to design a proper static fire test? Should I just keep the clamps closed on the launchpad and burn the thrusters? If so for how long and how many such tests are ideal before the actual launch?

This would be greatly appreciated. I ran multiplte static fire tests and didn't see any notable improvements. Some guidance on how it's intended to work would be helpful. 

[Galileo]

Hey @Angel-125 I was playing around with the latest BARIS today and noticed when I disable the requirement for materials for repairs, I still get a window that pops up when something breaks say it will cost X amount of material to fix the part. It may just be a false positive as I haven't actually checked to see if I really need the material. This was in a stock, modless game (besides Baris). It hasn't been a bother to me, I just happened to notice and found it odd.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Galileo

[Angelo Kerman]

On 9/18/2017 at 10:58 AM, Tarheel1999 said:

This would be greatly appreciated. I ran multiplte static fire tests and didn't see any notable improvements. Some guidance on how it's intended to work would be helpful. 

Static fire tests work just like flights; if the staging event succeeds, you gain experience. If it fails, there's also a chance that the parts will gain experience. You can adjust that chance in the settings menu- check out the KSPedia for details.

20 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Hey @Angel-125 I was playing around with the latest BARIS today and noticed when I disable the requirement for materials for repairs, I still get a window that pops up when something breaks say it will cost X amount of material to fix the part. It may just be a false positive as I haven't actually checked to see if I really need the material. This was in a stock, modless game (besides Baris). It hasn't been a bother to me, I just happened to notice and found it odd.

Thanks, I'll take a look.

[Tarheel1999]

I think we are curious about how much improvement you are supposed to see and if failures affect the experience gain on all parts or just those that failed.  I reduced the flights for experience variable to 3 and increased the chance of experience on failure to 80%. I ran about 5-7 test fires and didn't see any quality improvement on the parts I was testing. I have seen some minor improvement on parts that were involved in almost every launch in my career but haven't seen any improvement from parts that I ran multiple successful test fires on. 

PS - none of this is meant as a criticism and more just idle curiousity about whether things are working as intended. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Tarheel1999

[Geschosskopf]

@Angel-125, Is it possible in general for a mod to adjust the rate at which the stock contract system evolves over time?  By that I mean slowing down how fast the contract system changes the type and difficulty of the contracts it offers.  It seems that these days, the contract system will stop offering certain types of contracts fairly quickly if you don't accept any of them, and start offering other types that are usually more challenging.

However, BARIS increases the time and expense required to develop various degrees of mission capability, and this slows down the acquisition of the Science! needed to unlock the necessary parts.  The amount of delay and extra expense varies depending on how you set up BARIS, either a little or a lot.  Plus, what funds you do have get funneled into VAB, SPH, and Astronaut Complex upgrades at the expense of Mission Control, so you often lack the ability to accept contracts today just to save them for the future  Thus, by the time you've developed the capability to accomplish certain types of missions, those types of contracts are no longer being offered.  This makes it difficult to pay the bills.

Granted, BARIS is supposed to make the game harder.  I'm wondering, though, if always being behind the power curve in terms of mission capability is part of the plan.  That's a rather big increase in difficulty over and above the added expenses and frequent frustrations, because it can reduce your income significantly.  Thus, if it's possible to throttle the rate of contract evolution, you might want to consider adding this to BARIS at some point, once you get the main systems to your liking.

[Angelo Kerman]

3 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

@Angel-125, Is it possible in general for a mod to adjust the rate at which the stock contract system evolves over time?  By that I mean slowing down how fast the contract system changes the type and difficulty of the contracts it offers.  It seems that these days, the contract system will stop offering certain types of contracts fairly quickly if you don't accept any of them, and start offering other types that are usually more challenging.

However, BARIS increases the time and expense required to develop various degrees of mission capability, and this slows down the acquisition of the Science! needed to unlock the necessary parts.  The amount of delay and extra expense varies depending on how you set up BARIS, either a little or a lot.  Plus, what funds you do have get funneled into VAB, SPH, and Astronaut Complex upgrades at the expense of Mission Control, so you often lack the ability to accept contracts today just to save them for the future  Thus, by the time you've developed the capability to accomplish certain types of missions, those types of contracts are no longer being offered.  This makes it difficult to pay the bills.

Granted, BARIS is supposed to make the game harder.  I'm wondering, though, if always being behind the power curve in terms of mission capability is part of the plan.  That's a rather big increase in difficulty over and above the added expenses and frequent frustrations, because it can reduce your income significantly.  Thus, if it's possible to throttle the rate of contract evolution, you might want to consider adding this to BARIS at some point, once you get the main systems to your liking.

To be honest I don't know. I haven't played with the contract weighting system, which I think controls how and when contracts are offered. There are other ways to get science and funds though, such as MOLE's general science research system, and mining for valuable resources.

[WintericeUK]

I've got a couple of questions regarding static fire tests and BARIS...

Is there benefit to having multiple of the same part type on a test fire stand? (e.g. two RT-10 HAMMER SRBs) and if yes, then should you stage them separately or does that not matter?

Thanks in advance

Edited September 23, 2017 by WintericeUK
Fixed a punctuation problem.

[White Owl]

Just built up a new install to try different mods, and my first impressions of BARIS in a new career are generally positive. It's fascinating that I now have to determine exactly what quality level I need for a booster to be manrated. And I love the natural pacing that emerges from the vehicle integration system. Fun mod.

[Geschosskopf]

On 9/23/2017 at 6:57 PM, WintericeUK said:

I've got a couple of questions regarding static fire tests and BARIS...

Is there benefit to having multiple of the same part type on a test fire stand? (e.g. two RT-10 HAMMER SRBs) and if yes, then should you stage them separately or does that not matter?

Thanks in advance

I don't think you get extra credit for multiple engines of the same type, but I'm not sure.  It does, however, seem that the engine actually has to stage to get any credit at all.  For instance, even though I generally use the same lifter and upper stage engines together, both on the test stand and in flight, the lifter engine shows WAY more flights than the upper stage engine (looking in the persistence file), probably because frequent launch failures prevent the upper stage engine from ever firing.  OTOH, I sometime use clusters of the lifter engine, so PERHAPS I am getting extra credit for that.

The whole experience thing is something of a mystery.  I note that it even tracks Kerbals, not just rocket parts.  Hmmmm....

Speaking of Kerbals, @Angel-125 I recently noticed I had 2 more dead Kerbals I don't remember killing.  I went to the astronaut complex recently and was surprised to see the number on the KIA tab at 7 when I only remember killing 5.  So I looked on the KIA tab and saw 2 more entries than expected.  The dead Kerbals are listed in the order of dying, and these 2 extra ones had been dead a long time, happening before the most recent death I know happened, which was about 100 days ago..

I have "Kerbals can die in training" checked, but I never got any notification of any training fatalities.  I have, however, several times gotten the "stir oxygen tanks" even card pop up a few times saying a ship in flight had malfunctioned.  However, I got no part failure emails for these, nor could I find any new malfunctions by checking all my ships in space.  So I'm wondering if the wrong event card came up, and it should instead have said some Kerbal got killed.

[Ernos]

Not sure if anyone else is having this issue, but i have been using the 1.3.1 experimental, and every time i load the game, it crashes, i only have 4 other mods. I will attach logs and screenshot of gamedata.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1vOBrqQvR8Lc2Q1S1pYMnlqZ0U

 

 

[Angelo Kerman]

18 hours ago, Munar pilot said:

Not sure if anyone else is having this issue, but i have been using the 1.3.1 experimental, and every time i load the game, it crashes, i only have 4 other mods. I will attach logs and screenshot of gamedata.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1vOBrqQvR8Lc2Q1S1pYMnlqZ0U

 

 

Are you installing BARIS into a new save or into an existing one? There are problems with enabling BARIS on an existing save that I haven't figured out yet.

[Ernos]

I cant even launch the game, it crashes on the main loading menu, so i cant even say if it is having issues with BARIS on an existing save

[White Owl]

Let's say I wanted to tweak the overall integration time, to make the default longer or shorter. Would changing the min and max number of workers in the constants file be a good way to accomplish that?