totm dec 2019 Russian Launch and Mission Thread

[DDE]

5 hours ago, GearsNSuch said:

Ditto. You'd think they would have markings on the hoses and fuelports or something...

Oh, confusing between the two propellants would be an immediate showstopper.

For starters, I’m pretty sure kerosene’s lack of autogenous pressurization would be very noticeable.

[MaverickSawyer]

1 hour ago, sh1pman said:

For every idiot-proof design there will be one really persistent idiot with a sledgehammer...

Hence why I use the term "idiot resistant", not "idiot proof".  There is no such thing as idiot proof, because nature will always make a better idiot. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by MaverickSawyer

[MinimumSky5]

Idle speculation on a series of events... 

1. "Engineers" connect LOX and kerosene pipes back to front. 

2. After a few liters of propellant is loaded, problems are noted. 

3.Rather than delay launch, they simply reconnect the pipes in the correct orientation, and carry on regardless

4. LOX in the kerosene tank simply vents relatively harmlessly, but kerosene in the LOX tanks becomes a viscous gel in the LOX, which would likely float as LOX is quite dense. 

5. In the latter stages of engine burn, a semi solid lump of kerosene enters the feed line. Some form of sensor detects the lump, and shuts the engine down. 

OR

Lump of kerosene enters the LOX turbopump or preburner, and causes a RUD of at least that part of the engine. 

6. Fregat saves the day! Egypt starts spying on us. 

I know that LOX will ignite with most things given half a chance, but LOX + kerosene is not hypergolic, so could this situation last long enough for kerosene ingestion into the oxygen side of the engine? 

[sevenperforce]

2 minutes ago, MinimumSky5 said:

Idle speculation on a series of events... 

1. "Engineers" connect LOX and kerosene pipes back to front. 

2. After a few liters of propellant is loaded, problems are noted. 

3.Rather than delay launch, they simply reconnect the pipes in the correct orientation, and carry on regardless

4. LOX in the kerosene tank simply vents relatively harmlessly, but kerosene in the LOX tanks becomes a viscous gel in the LOX, which would likely float as LOX is quite dense. 

5. In the latter stages of engine burn, a semi solid lump of kerosene enters the feed line. Some form of sensor detects the lump, and shuts the engine down. 

OR

Lump of kerosene enters the LOX turbopump or preburner, and causes a RUD of at least that part of the engine. 

6. Fregat saves the day! Egypt starts spying on us. 

I know that LOX will ignite with most things given half a chance, but LOX + kerosene is not hypergolic, so could this situation last long enough for kerosene ingestion into the oxygen side of the engine? 

As probable a solution as any. Kerosene is ridiculously hard to ignite.

[MinimumSky5]

That's why I'm thinking this is the solution. Hit a puddle of kerosene with a blowtorch, and it'll happily sit there, heating up and silently mocking you. 

[GearsNSuch]

5 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Better idea: make the connectors different enough that one physically cannot mistakenly cross them up.

The way I see it, if they managed to hammer in an altimeter backwards, they’d figure out a way to switch the fuel pipes, too.

Which brings up another thing, the Roscosmos Equation:

 

s = -v(t+d)

where

s = the degree of success of a mission. A negative denotes sub-optimal performance or total failure.

v = the amount of vodka, in liters, consumed by any member of the construction crew within the past day. If the engineer has consumed no vodka, this number is the negative of the usual amount of the beverage consumed in one day by someone in an equivalent position. v is dependent on various factors such as management, pay, weather conditions, water temperature when they last went fishing, and the like.

t = the amount of tools, such as drills, hammers, tape, and screwdrivers, the construction crew has.

d = the amount of delicate equipment present.

 

As is plainly visible in the equation, great things can be accomplished by a bunch of Russians with screwdrivers and a spaceship (Salyut 7, for example) if the variable v is negative, which is dependent on the sociological and economical situation. In the event of an emergency, negative s values can possibly be counteracted by whacking the math with a hammer. And vodka.

[Reactordrone]

6 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Better idea: make the connectors different enough that one physically cannot mistakenly cross them up. It's something I call "designing with a high level of idiot resistance". 

I doubt they loaded into the wrong tanks, they just loaded the incorrect amount into the right tanks. LOx tank only got 9 cubic metres and the Kerosene tank maxed out at 9 cubic metres despite them trying to jam in more (there just physically isn't more than 9 cubic metres of space in the kerosene tank).

[tater]

Soyuz from French Guiana up already almost an hour.

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by tater

[sevenperforce]

31 minutes ago, Reactordrone said:

I doubt they loaded into the wrong tanks, they just loaded the incorrect amount into the right tanks. LOx tank only got 9 cubic metres and the Kerosene tank maxed out at 9 cubic metres despite them trying to jam in more (there just physically isn't more than 9 cubic metres of space in the kerosene tank).

I can't see how they would have managed to get enough LOX to get as high as they did.

[Reactordrone]

1 hour ago, sevenperforce said:

I can't see how they would have managed to get enough LOX to get as high as they did.

Doing some rough calculations, the third stage usually shuts down with about 3t of unused propellant so if it runs 9 tonnes of oxidiser dry it'll come up about 500m/s short compared to a normal burn.

[DDE]

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/oneweb.html

Factually accurate, if overly dramatic.

[kerbiloid]

O.Kononenko has tested the fire extinguishers onboard ISS during the planned replacement, first time in the history.

American modules of ISS use CO2 extinguishers (similar to terrestrial ones), while the Russian modules are equipped with liquid ones, containing distilled liquid water and some amount of foam agent.

"The mixture is safe for people, electric equipment, and wires, as distilled water is bad conductor. The foam is sticky and doesn't fly around, but sticks to the walls.

https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/652527

[DDE]

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

O.Kononenko has tested the fire extinguishers onboard ISS during the planned replacement, first time in the history.

American modules of ISS use CO2 extinguishers (similar to terrestrial ones), while the Russian modules are equipped with liquid ones, containing distilled liquid water and some amount of foam agent.

"The mixture is safe for people, electric equipment, and wires, as distilled water is bad conductor. The foam is sticky and doesn't fly around, but sticks to the walls.

https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/652527

Looks like Roscomos has been reliving every one of its Mir FUBARs this week.

[DDE]

https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/330051-russia-beat-moon-race

For an RT version of early 2010s Buzzfeed ran by the parliamentary newspaper of record that has annual interviews with astrologists... this wasn’t half bad.

I’m surprised they’ve chosen Lukashik of buran.ru as the contrarian, he’s... less politically mainstream and more pessimistic than Zak, even.

[kerbiloid]

47 minutes ago, DDE said:

Lukashik of buran.ru

?
Lukashevich

48 minutes ago, DDE said:

annual interviews with astrologists

But why study the space if it's useless for the horoscopes?

[sh1pman]

On 3/1/2019 at 4:30 PM, DDE said:

https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/330051-russia-beat-moon-race

For an RT version of early 2010s Buzzfeed ran by the parliamentary newspaper of record that has annual interviews with astrologists... this wasn’t half bad.

I’m surprised they’ve chosen Lukashik of buran.ru as the contrarian, he’s... less politically mainstream and more pessimistic than Zak, even.

Good, they understand. Lukashevich isn't wrong. Years pass, more and more technology and experience of Soviet era is being lost. New rockets and spacecraft are constantly postponed and over-budget as corruption and incompetence increases. At the same time, usual boasts from administration that our engines are the best, that THEY have to fly to space on our rockets, that booster landing is cheap publicity stunt. Pathetic to the extreme.

[CatastrophicFailure]

 

I wasn’t even anywhere near it, I swear, I just got up for Krakenk’s sake! 

 

[kerbiloid]

That's why all those lightweight Martian ship projects are doomed.
It needs redundancy. A lot of it.

Edited March 4, 2019 by kerbiloid

[DDE]

Zak is beginning to go off the deep end.

It’s merely an excessive nitpick about the guy being employed by a subsidiary, contrary to his Facebook profile. Very important... in the mind of a bureacrat.

Not to mention, unlike Rogozin’s trampolines, going on a rant about filthy plebs on Facebook is rather politically incorrect.

Quote

(On a post about Moscow’s housing renovation programme) “Not bad, but the ‘contingent’ from the khruschevkas is going to excrements it up in a few years”

”What, you butthurt? Which category of khruschevka cattle are you: a drunk, a stoner, do you throw trash out your front door, shout in the dead of night, or all of the above?”

Not to mention it’s become a bit fashionable for Russian bureaucrats to cause public scandals by ragging on the hoi polloi.

[kerbiloid]

"khruschevka" = "cheap public housing"

(including but not limited with the "social housing")

Edited March 5, 2019 by kerbiloid

[sh1pman]

Well, he was being a d#%^! on the internet, using his own account, in his spare time. Does it warrant a firing? That's a bit too extreme if you ask me. 

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, sh1pman said:

Well, he was being a d#%^! on the internet, using his own account, in his spare time.

It was his cat's revenge.

[DDE]

3 hours ago, sh1pman said:

Well, he was being a d#%^! on the internet, using his own account, in his spare time. Does it warrant a firing? That's a bit too extreme if you ask me. 

It’s rapidly becoming a global standard, though.

[sh1pman]

 

[DDE]

24 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

 

But undoable, not in form Musk is used to. The RD-193 was never designed for aerial restart or precision shutoff.

And then of course there are the logistical impossibilities of fetching it from non-RTLS sites.

Finally, Angara has been left in the cold by the manned program, and Khrunichev’s passion for Proton is proving unkillable. It’s actually a poor vehicle to place bets on.

Edited March 7, 2019 by DDE