Additions to The Game?

[RedPandaz]

"Posted October 8, 2015 (edited)
One of my biggest complaints about KSP has been the lack of things to do. Once you get where you're going, there's really no point in being there and nothing to do when you do get there. The planets are lifeless, the science is a gooey joke and the only reason to be on the surface of a planet is to say you've been there or drill for ore so you can reach further destinations and do... what? I can't even begin to calculate the number of rockets, aircraft, rovers and bases that I've created in the past few years only to scrap them entirely when the 'mission' was complete? Why? No point in them existing.

But Squad has been too busy adding useless things, like heat and silly pointy aerodynamic overlays that serve no purpose other than eye candy, rather than providing a continuing source of entertainment.

Well, someone was listening.

Astroneer

And guess what they're comparing it to?

MSN Article on Astroneer

If fear if Squad continues their ostrich approach to immersion that it's going to be just like many of the games we remember, like Age of Empires. It may define a genra of games but if they don't wake up, it's going to quickly become another dust collector on the shelf.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Fengist"

 

This is still a very real problem in-game, and something that I would like adressed- And I have some ideas

-Weather

       -Weather would be an amazing thing to experience, and possible design around? A dust storm on Duna or maybe storms on Kerbin, Laythe, or Eve? They could range from small showers to massive hurricanes  

-More Contracts?

-Tourist contracts to other points on Kerbin, potentially the other bases; You could have little hopper runs to the Island runway, or long-haul flights to KSC 2? More places to 

-Life support and better Base Building

-Kerbals should need food, water and oxygen. I know there are already mods for this, but stock support would be great. Something I would also like are large glass domes for building cool sci-fi biospheres, and also recreational facilities, such as lounges and movie theaters?

 

What do you think of my ideas? and I really want to fly through a Cat-5 hurricane in KSP, that would be an interesting challenge

 

[Just Jim]

Honestly, and I'm gonna be brutal... this just sounds like another "Wish List" thread. 

There are a lot of mods that add weather effects, and most make my frame rate drop unacceptably low. I would hate to have them make weather effects permanent.

And Squad is already working on the contract editor, which sounds like a huge improvement.

Again, sorry if I'm being too blunt, but there are a lot of threads complaining about KSP, and how this or that player could make it better, if someone would listen.

This sounds like another one of those.

[Helmetman]

But my dear @RedPandaz kerbal space program started as a indie game. (google the term I f u d o n t k n o w w h a t I t m e a n s)

That said, they done great business getting the game on steam and for sale on most any console. They're not even into the depth of technicalities that most modders are. But they did great in general imho. So all Hail Squad, right here right now, (jk)

If you want to expand the game you can use mods. Generally when a game says it's a version starting with the number 1 followed by a comma and a null that it is not going to be expanded much. As for most of your points, I just named the guys. Go to ksp mod release page. I made this very easy for you but it was actually 2 clicks from here. Don't tell anybody though.

There you can download most of anything you wished for. Weather is a dynamic that is not properly supported by the game engine this game is progammed with. And can thus not be simulated correctly. Personally I think Squad has created a ill version of a atmosphere in answer to souposphere (pre 2015 or something) so I wouldn't be the one to recommend of them to add weather. Even if the engine did allow it I would go ask this on the mod page. Just my two cents... 3 or 4 cents actually.

[RedPandaz]

1 minute ago, Helmetman said:

But my dear @RedPandaz kerbal space program started as a indie game. (google the term I f u d o n t k n o w w h a t I t m e a n s)

That said, they done great business getting the game on steam and for sale on most any console. They're not even into the depth of technicalities that most modders are. But they did great in general imho. So all Hail Squad, right here right now, (jk)

If you want to expand the game you can use mods. Generally when a game says it's a version starting with the number 1 followed by a comma and a null that it is not going to be expanded much. As for most of your points, I just named the guys. Go to ksp mod release page. I made this very easy for you but it was actually 2 clicks from here. Don't tell anybody though.

There you can download most of anything you wished for. Weather is a dynamic that is not properly supported by the game engine this game is progammed with. And can thus not be simulated correctly. Personally I think Squad has created a ill version of a atmosphere in answer to souposphere (pre 2015 or something) so I wouldn't be the one to recommend of them to add weather. Even if the engine did allow it I would go ask this on the mod page. Just my two cents... 3 or 4 cents actually.

Trying to fly at mach 2 through a tornado would be cool tho

Maybe a weather mod could just directly edit the plane's velocity, like +10 left, -50 down, etc? with a visual effect for the cloud?

[Just Jim]

I apologize if my earlier response was rude... I have a really bad cold that's making me a grouch, and the subject of hurricanes hit me kinda wrong.

Sorry.

 

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, RedPandaz said:

"Posted October 8, 2015 (edited)
One of my biggest complaints about KSP has been the lack of things to do. Once you get where you're going, there's really no point in being there and nothing to do when you do get there. The planets are lifeless, the science is a gooey joke and the only reason to be on the surface of a planet is to say you've been there or drill for ore so you can reach further destinations and do... what? I can't even begin to calculate the number of rockets, aircraft, rovers and bases that I've created in the past few years only to scrap them entirely when the 'mission' was complete? Why? No point in them existing.

(...)

MSN Article on Astroneer

If fear if Squad continues their ostrich approach to immersion that it's going to be just like many of the games we remember, like Age of Empires. It may define a genra of games but if they don't wake up, it's going to quickly become another dust collector on the shelf.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Fengist" (...)

That is, if you consider KSP and Astroneer "the same genre." Aside from having a common "space exploration" theme the games differ significantly.

Astroneer is like Playmobil. The world you're in is made out of pre-made parts, all wonderfully detailed and functional (the functional part in Astroneer might be lacking, but that's because it's in pre-alpha). The attraction of the game is exploration, discovery, and world-building.

KSP is like Lego. The world you live in is crude and detail depends on the parts you built, and what you built into them. The attraction of the game is building various crafts, and see how they live up to their intended task.

Both are fine but offer a different experience, and which of the two experiences is better is mostly a matter of taste. I like Astroneer, it's fun and it looks pretty. But unless there is a radical amount of new game mechanics to be introduced I doubt it will ever log the amount of hours that KSP has for me.

Would it be nice if there were Astroneer-like worlds in KSP? Absolutely. But essential? Far from it. I'd rather see the bugs fixed, and I'll welcome extensions like the one they're working on now. But I doubt the game will be relegated to obscurity by games that offer pretty landscapes but not the depth that KSP offers.

[sevenperforce]

Overlays are HUGELY important for telling me how my vehicle is handling and whether the re-entry characteristics are within acceptable limits.

That being said, I would love to see expansion into colonization and bases that's more than what is currently available. The ability to build offworld VABs, for example.

[Spricigo]

21 hours ago, RedPandaz said:

The only reason to be on the surface of a planet is to say you've been there 

 

Funny enough. That is the entire point of the game for many players and more than enough to keep them entertained for long time.

You reach that lifeless rock once, then you want to reach that lifeless rock again using a different method, then reach that lifeless rock while doing a extra stop in a different lifeless rock...nothing to do when you arrive there, but the travel is what really matter.

 

 

[Just Jim]

20 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

The ability to build offworld VABs, for example.

Yeah, I could get behind this as well.  

[adsii1970]

I think Squad should add the ability to actually colonize and build on the planets colonized. But before I get slammed for "you can already do this with mods..." please hear me out.

When .90 "Beta than ever" came out, I was hoping that it would have given us a reason for detailed studies and missions of the various stock planets in KSP. Eventually, the survey parts were added, but there was no real way to actually make something useful out of the data we gained. Then Squad added the ability (after many mods did the same thing) to turn stuff into fuel, and then that's where the development stopped.

One of the things that needs to be added is the ability to do what has been suggested by @sevenperforce and @Just Jim - the ability to build off-Kerbin. There are so many things that could be done within this area. Mods such as Extraplanetary Launchpads have demonstrated it can be done and should be done by Squad. After all, even NASA, JSA, the ESA, Russian and Chinese space agencies are all trying to figure out how to construct things in space beyond low Earth orbit space stations. Our own future in space depends on being able to use resources on-hand and to adapt them to our needs through processing and construction techniques. It seems that KSP should implement some sort of similar path into the game - and it would make career and science modes more fascinating to play.

I would like to see life forms added to the stock planets. Even if it were something simple as a puddle of bacteria or even plants, I think it would add another reason to bring scientists onto the missions. It would be fun, say to track down all the single-celled bacteria throughout the Kerbin system... and then, if that's done, make it some sort of desired objective with either a huge science payout OR a big contract boost. It would add a sense of urgency to the game.

There are a number of folks who want to see weather added to the game and we've been begging for that, at least for clouds, since .24 came out. I can understand why @SQUAD is hesitant to do this. Adding weather as a feature would mean the game would have to have another engine within it, meaning a heck of a lot of programming, testing, etc. It would be easier to simply add that feature into Kerbal Space Program 2.0 rather than reworking the current version to include weather. And then, what would it be once it is included? The hard-core KSP player would not just want weather on Kerbin, but on every body of the stock system. This would mean a lot more coding, the potential for more bugs, and so forth.  I really do not see how adding weather would be feasible for KSP 1.X. And if I were Squad, I simply would not offer it for the current version of KSP  - unless it came as a DLC expansion pack. But even then, I am not sure if I would do it.

[James M]

2 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

I think Squad should add the ability to actually colonize and build on the planets colonized. But before I get slammed for "you can already do this with mods..." please hear me out.

When .90 "Beta than ever" came out, I was hoping that it would have given us a reason for detailed studies and missions of the various stock planets in KSP. Eventually, the survey parts were added, but there was no real way to actually make something useful out of the data we gained. Then Squad added the ability (after many mods did the same thing) to turn stuff into fuel, and then that's where the development stopped.

One of the things that needs to be added is the ability to do what has been suggested by @sevenperforce and @Just Jim - the ability to build off-Kerbin. There are so many things that could be done within this area. Mods such as Extraplanetary Launchpads have demonstrated it can be done and should be done by Squad. After all, even NASA, JSA, the ESA, Russian and Chinese space agencies are all trying to figure out how to construct things in space beyond low Earth orbit space stations. Our own future in space depends on being able to use resources on-hand and to adapt them to our needs through processing and construction techniques. It seems that KSP should implement some sort of similar path into the game - and it would make career and science modes more fascinating to play.

Im not sure whether weather (lol) is really an option and I love your idea of searching for life forms as an objective in the game, however I have to agree that off-Kerbin construction NEEDS to be a thing if Squad wants to take this game any further. Sure, we could keep following the Moar Boosters method and build colossal 2000 part rockets and SSTO's but seriously.. theres a limit to even that. By then your CPU is dying and the game stops being "fun". Hopefully squad realizes it soon.

[adsii1970]

4 minutes ago, James M said:

Im not sure whether weather (lol) is really an option and I love your idea of searching for life forms as an objective in the game, however I have to agree that off-Kerbin construction NEEDS to be a thing if Squad wants to take this game any further. Sure, we could keep following the Moar Boosters method and build colossal 2000 part rockets and SSTO's but seriously.. theres a limit to even that. By then your CPU is dying and the game stops being "fun". Hopefully squad realizes it soon.

I would not oppose an announcement that off-world construction would be a DLC or expansion pack feature. I'd gladly pay for that.

[RedPandaz]

20 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

Overlays are HUGELY important for telling me how my vehicle is handling and whether the re-entry characteristics are within acceptable limits.

That being said, I would love to see expansion into colonization and bases that's more than what is currently available. The ability to build offworld VABs, for example.

Like an incorporated and intuitive Extraplanetary Launchpad mod?

[Spricigo]

Noticing that the idea of building off-Kerbin is an (interesting) idea is gaining some momentum in this thread, I'd like to address that a economic system that change how we deal with in-kerbin building can also be interesting (either as a stock feature or as a mod).

Right now we have a contract system that throw money at us so we can exploit the infinite resources of Kerbin to wander around wherever we want.

[Alshain]

Astroneer is nothing like KSP, Astroneer and Minecraft have more in common.

If you want another game to compare it to... Maybe scrap mechanic... But even that isn't a very good comparison.

Its a completely different genre.

[sevenperforce]

I play almost exclusively in sandbox, and even I would absolutely love the ability to build offworld VABs and launch pads. It's like ISRU; just because I CAN ship as much fuel as I want directly from Kerbin in sandbox mode doesn't mean I don't like using ISRU when applicable. Building offworld would be similar in that it would allow more flexibility and give even sandbox players the ability to greatly enrich their exploration and mission experience. 

Not to mention that you could also do this on Kerbin -- build a second VAB and launchpad at one of the poles, for example. 

Of course the potential for enriched career mode play is huge. Instead of just grinding contracts for money endlessly, players could choose to invest in a Minmus VAB in order to launch more payload for cheaper. To complete a tourist trip to Val, for example, you could build a fairly small crew vehicle on Kerbin, launch it into LKO, and then build your transfer and return vehicle on Minmus without the huge added price of building a ginormous launcher to get it off the ground.

[Spricigo]

19 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

...you could build a fairly small crew vehicle on Kerbin, launch it into LKO, and then build your transfer and return vehicle on Minmus without the huge added price of building a ginormous launcher to get it off the ground.

Even before that a nice advantage would be to send materials to build ships off-world instead of relying on pre-built modules that are bulky and need to be assembled with docking ports. It may even turn out to be more expensive than launching the complete craft from Kerbin surface but have a convenience edge.

 

Sadly, I don't see that happening in stock any time soon.

[sevenperforce]

1 minute ago, Spricigo said:

Even before that a nice advantage would be to send materials to build ships off-world instead of relying on pre-built modules that are bulky and need to be assembled with docking ports. It may even turn out to be more expensive than launching the complete craft from Kerbin surface but have a convenience edge.

Sadly, I don't see that happening in stock any time soon.

Sending bulk material, yeah. Or being able to convert ore into bulk material.

There could be some stuff you could build from refined ore onsite (tanks, structural elements, etc.) and some stuff (like engines, instruments, etc.) that you'd have to send from Kerbin, but once you send them you can use them to assemble. Career mode could have a whole tech tree for what you and can't build offsite.

Heck, even just being able to ship the parts themselves in a standard, compact cargo bay and reassemble them at an offworld VAB, then deploy them, would do wonders. You could build so much.

[Helmetman]

I would like a simple stock form of life support because I think any form of life support is a space travel fact. A being alive fact tbh. it's the basic life needs after all.

It should really be simple. Life support should even be passively contained without user input once certain bases and modules are used and Kerbals being contained (only a few select are needed to not overload the current part selection)

In addition to this I would want to have excavate areas. And if you were to ask me that is any area on any planetary surface. Objects in the game can exist in negative elevation.
So why not give Kerbals a spade, pickaxe, drilling equipment and other such stuff. Everytime you dig the ground it re-renders itself to create a excavated area. Minecraft style but then not so blocky

In there you can drive stuff like habitats and domes.
Doing this will protect you from radiation if Kerbals shelter there.
There is passive radiation in space. Stay to long in EVA mode and you'll get sick and can't use the kerbal.

There is a overlay button showing solar storms in map view (can be toggled off)
There is also a alarm system when a ship lies in it's path.

You need a special shielded module that kerbals need to occupy when a solar storm hits. Failing to do so gives a 50% mortality rate for the next 1 to 2 years. A large medical investment per Kerbal gives a 80% change of survival within the same timeframe if applied in time.

Being re-exposed to a 2nd storm is instant death. There is a 1-3% chance of instant death on first contact with any solar storm for any kerbal on board.

Just a thought from the top of my head. 

[ZooNamedGames]

On 9/20/2017 at 5:03 PM, RedPandaz said:

Trying to fly at mach 2 through a tornado would be cool tho

No. Just everything about this equals no.

Whether from a realism perspective or gameplay I can list a menagerie as to why not.

Just...

NO

[sevenperforce]

7 hours ago, Helmetman said:

I would like a simple stock form of life support because I think any form of life support is a space travel fact. A being alive fact tbh. it's the basic life needs after all.

I could see that as a good thing.

7 hours ago, Helmetman said:

It should really be simple.

Agreed.

7 hours ago, Helmetman said:

I would want to have excavate areas. And if you were to ask me that is any area on any planetary surface. Objects in the game can exist in negative elevation.
So why not give Kerbals a spade, pickaxe, drilling equipment and other such stuff. Everytime you dig the ground it re-renders itself to create a excavated area. Minecraft style but then not so blocky

Um.

7 hours ago, Helmetman said:

In there you can drive stuff like habitats and domes.

Okay, but....

7 hours ago, Helmetman said:

Doing this will protect you from radiation if Kerbals shelter there.
There is passive radiation in space. Stay to long in EVA mode and you'll get sick and can't use the kerbal.

There is a overlay button showing solar storms in map view (can be toggled off)
There is also a alarm system when a ship lies in it's path.

You need a special shielded module that kerbals need to occupy when a solar storm hits. Failing to do so gives a 50% mortality rate for the next 1 to 2 years. A large medical investment per Kerbal gives a 80% change of survival within the same timeframe if applied in time.

Being re-exposed to a 2nd storm is instant death. There is a 1-3% chance of instant death on first contact with any solar storm for any kerbal on board.

Just a thought from the top of my head. 

Ugh, noooooo.

[Helmetman]

@sevenperforceWell, you made your opinion crystal clear 

[sevenperforce]

20 minutes ago, Helmetman said:

@sevenperforceWell, you made your opinion crystal clear 

LOL, sorry if I was too snarky.

[RedPandaz]

1 hour ago, ZooNamedGames said:

No. Just everything about this equals no.

Whether from a realism perspective or gameplay I can list a menagerie as to why not.

Just...

NO

Go on?

[RatchetinSpace]

On 9/21/2017 at 7:03 AM, RedPandaz said:

Trying to fly at mach 2 through a tornado would be cool tho

Maybe a weather mod could just directly edit the plane's velocity, like +10 left, -50 down, etc? with a visual effect for the cloud?

Can someone PLEASE make this, PLEASE