New Star Trek premieres on the 24th Sep!

[Pawelk198604]

What do you think about new Star Trek: Discovery?
And more specific about it's 3 rd Episode? 
I love Star Trek i'm avid fan of it :-)

 

I bought subscription on Netflix to watch it, because Netflix Europe (I'm Polish) has broadcasting rights for European continent :-)   

When i saw captain of eponymous "USS Discovery" spaceship i found that guy a little creepy.

He remember me the other creepy guy from Mass Effect :-)
And he also remind me Haytham Kenwaym, he might be Templar!,   from other famous fictitious universum  if you knew what i mean ;-)

But returning to Star Trek universum i'm 100% sure that Gabriel Lorca work for Section 31 xD 

Edited October 2, 2017 by Pawelk198604

[KamenRiderzero1]

And I really don't think that's fair to the Klingons to shoehorn them into such a role. You want a Far right allegory in Trek, you call the Cardasians. 

 

The thing about the Klingons many overlook, and most alien species, is how much of their behavior falls under what TV tropes calls "Blue and Orange Morailty". 

They felt threatened by the "Federation" because from their viewpoint, it's a "Human Empire" because democratic, republican methods of government are almost alien to them. (To offer a real world comparison, the British monarchists who say a republic was tried once, under Cromwell and failed, so the monarchy should stay) The Klingons are afraid of the "multiculturalism" next door because to them, to their understanding, it's a lie.

a species that evolved in a different environment under different circumstances is not automatically going to develop the same kind of moral code. 

 

And that code is not automatically wrong. Take the character Nessus from the "Known Space" books by Larry Nevin.

Humanity's name for his race is "Pierson's Puppeteers" due to the similarities to a kids TV show puppet. Every single Puppeteer any other species has ever met is insane. Their evolution as herd animals, plus a "science experiment" where they concluded they don't have souls, has made them extremely focused on self preservation to the point normal Puppeteers refuse to leave their homeworld. Humans consider them cowards. For the Puppeteers, this is just common sense.

 

going back to the Klingons, look at Star Trek 3 and 4. Note how they always refer to Genesis using weapons terms, notably "Genesis Torpedo", where as the federation characters (hell, even Khan and company) are more likely to just call it a "device", and view it as a tool. Christopher Loyd's character Kurge wanted the device out of a desire to enforce parity with the Federation, not use it himself, not understanding that while it could be used as a weapon, that's not their intention. They watch how they talk and act like it's existence is the greater crime than destroying U.S.S. Grissom , killing David Marcus in cold blood or attacking Enterprise 

[Nuke]

expect a merge into the other thread, think the mods have merged 3 into it already.

captain seems more like a serial killer than a starfleet captain. especially that scene in the dissection lab with bits of alien critters everywhere. hardly creepy at all. was that a gorn skeleton?

[Matuchkin]

0/10 shields aren't at 50.

[WinkAllKerb'']

17 hours ago, Nuke said:

... a captian that has more in common with hannibal lecter or jeffery dahmer than picard or james kirk ...

anyone remind the ender ending ? that kid leaving it's kind to find a planet for a giant ant ? might has something to do with this "temper" diff ^

Edited October 3, 2017 by WinkAllKerb''

[Nuke]

klingons didnt take the path of self elevation into a space faring civilization (the path the post prime-directive federation prefers other races to take). another race attempted to enslave them and the klingons revolted, seizing their technology in the process and later developing their own and expanding their empire. hence the mistrust for outsiders. they have learned that when another species 'comes in peace', that enslavement is soon to follow. they have been there before and arent going to risk it happening again. its also why the klingons have such a cultural-tech disparity. they have values of a feudal iron age warrior culture but tech superior to starfleet at this point in the timeline.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Nuke

[WinkAllKerb'']

"enslavement"( but let's say "encounter" with two civilization with different history) use to be a mutual process (kinda like symbiosys or parasitism), it just not always appear clearly at first, sometime it's longer, and drawback and/or benefit are common due to contrast over time 

Edited October 3, 2017 by WinkAllKerb''

[Bill Phil]

What I find funny is that the first shuttle orbiter was named after the Enterprise from Star Trek. Now we have two Star Trek series that are named after space shuttle orbiters...

[steve_v]

On 10/2/2017 at 11:04 PM, FreeThinker said:

The old Klingons were too much human-like and they needed to be dehumanised, into monstrous fascist subhumans so the just and righteous Starfleet can kick their BUD with righteous indignation.

That's my take on this too.
Step one to dehumanise your bad guy: Obscure the face... Hence the new makeup, I presume.

Right through TOS & TNG Klingons were portrayed as a warlike and somewhat savage race... but not without honour, and not unreasonable. A reminder perhaps, of tendencies the glorious federation had learned to overcome, and a way to explore understanding of alien cultures.
War with the Klingons was the last thing the federation wanted. This new show seems to be setting them up as a punching bag.

[snip]

ST aged so well because the issues it tackles are timeless and universal. If this new show survives we'll look back on it and ask: What was all that about?
It's barely coherent now, it'll make no sense at all in 20 years time.

Besides, using Star Trek as a vehicle for a p........ crusade is sacrilege.

---

12 hours ago, KamenRiderzero1 said:

And I really don't think that's fair to the Klingons to shoehorn them into such a role. You want a Far right allegory in Trek, you call the Cardasians.

The thing about the Klingons many overlook...

Unfortunately, I can only like this post once... Hole in one, my good sir.

[WinkAllKerb'']

food for thought series: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/François_Rabelais


Wisdom entereth not into a malicious mind, and that knowledge without conscience is but the ruin of the soul
 

• Variant translation: Wisdom entereth not into a malicious mind, and science without conscience is but the ruin of the soul.
• Original: Science sans conscience n'est que ruine de l'âme.
  
  but it somehow has to do with the klingon version 1950 and klingon now (series were really kitch back in the days, they were also much less tv channel, much less tech everywhere in lot of peoples lifes ; also . . .)

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by WinkAllKerb''

[KamenRiderzero1]

22 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

What I find funny is that the first shuttle orbiter was named after the Enterprise from Star Trek. Now we have two Star Trek series that are named after space shuttle orbiters...

It's a meta-referncial paradox.

 

nx01 is named after the OV101 which is named after 1701 which in universe was probably named after the NX01.

 

though really the series got its name because the writers were tired of everything being "Star Trek Colon Something" and wanted to go a different angle, a nessesity on a long running show if you ask me*. They said to themselves "What word will envoke the idea of Star Trek without actually saying it?" Hence why the show was just titled  "Enterprise" for two seasons.

 

 

* awesome example I read this week about is the 2018 "Super Sentai" (Japanese parent show of Power Rangers now in its 41st season) which will be essentially  two different shows running simultaneously with two different teams, one made up of police (Police Sentai Patoranger) and one made of "gentlemen thieves" (Kiato Sentai Lupinranger) taking turns being featured each week until the two are forced to merge after a set amount of time.

[WinkAllKerb'']

exactly what bring the "fart proudly"-benjamin franklin- (hurtaut & etc.) thematic, context, and problematic ; kinda ...

one word and it's interesting disambiguations: https://imgur.com/crO3MJE

Edited October 3, 2017 by WinkAllKerb''
(but well history proven thoose writers weren't wrong, still what's they were writing was much less distracting than vernes for exemple)

[Pawelk198604]

2 hours ago, Nuke said:

expect a merge into the other thread, think the mods have merged 3 into it already.

captain seems more like a serial killer than a starfleet captain. especially that scene in the dissection lab with bits of alien critters everywhere. hardly creepy at all. was that a gorn skeleton?

The same thing I thought, because he sounded like some kind of psychopath, this eccentric biological genius, was 100% rational about his person, because he reminds me of Luther Sloan from DS9 and he worked for Section 31 and  Gabriel Lorca is most likely too   and. I would not be surprised if Sloan was his distant descendant since Star Trek Discovery, is a prequel to TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY  .

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by kerbiloid

[Randox]

I've seen one of the episodes so far (the second one I think). Not sure what to think. The tone is very different. The Star Trek I'm familiar with put a lot of emphasis on understanding and looking at things from new points of view (I mostly watched TNG and Voyager, as well as the TOS movies). Peaceful resolution, mutual understanding, self defence. Not sure I'm going to get that with this show.

 

I'm kind of biased against it though just from the visual design of Discovery itself. It's basically what the Constitution Class would look like if it were built by the Klingons, or if a Constitution and K't'inga had a baby. It's just...it's weird. It's more weird because the Federation and Klingons are at war, and as I understand it this isn't even an alternate universe. Oh, and there is a science ship from that era that with a modern look would actually be pretty cool (it's always been one of my favorites at least). It's the one from Wrath of Khan, the Miranda class. Given that the Akira class which was built to look like a warship has the same basic layout, I think they probably could have spruced the design up into something that would work for them.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Randox

[TheKosmonaut]

Oh boy, it seems like I am doing more oppressing moderating than I normally would today. 

Look, people. Trek has always been a progressive show. Discussion about the politics *of* Star Trek are fine, but, let's not draw the current political climate into this discussion as well. 

Some posts in this thread have been or will be trimmed. No more talk of current politics, you all should know this by now.

[WinkAllKerb'']

(out of like for today but) @kos a philosophical sub forum anyone xDr ... aie aie aie ... sometime it slip slowly like if nothing ...

[monstah]

14 hours ago, Nuke said:

expect a merge into the other thread, think the mods have merged 3 into it already.

Yup. Threads merged.

Edited October 3, 2017 by monstah

[Nuke]

15 hours ago, steve_v said:

That's my take on this too.
Step one to dehumanise your bad guy: Obscure the face... Hence the new makeup, I presume.

Right through TOS & TNG Klingons were portrayed as a warlike and somewhat savage race... but not without honour, and not unreasonable. A reminder perhaps, of tendencies the glorious federation had learned to overcome, and a way to explore understanding of alien cultures.
War with the Klingons was the last thing the federation wanted. This new show seems to be setting them up as a punching bag.

[snip]

ST aged so well because the issues it tackles are timeless and universal. If this new show survives we'll look back on it and ask: What was all that about?
It's barely coherent now, it'll make no sense at all in 20 years time.

Besides, using Star Trek as a vehicle for a p........ crusade is sacrilege.

---

Unfortunately, I can only like this post once... Hole in one, my good sir.

i want to say that the show is using this as a commentary on the political bipolarization we are currently going through in the usa. i dont think its so much as pushing one side or the other (but a clear bias exists simply that the side represented by the klingons is the opposite side from the one that runs hollywood). i want to say that they are using the show as a whole to show that its possible for both sides to understand eachother and help close the divide. i want to think that, but i have a feeling that the bias will be exploited to push someones agenda. i dont want to be too political but this seems to be the direction the show is going.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Nuke

[Just Jim]

41 minutes ago, Nuke said:

i want to say that the show is using this as a commentary on the political bipolarization we are currently going through in the usa.

I get the same impression... and quite simply, without taking one side or the other... I just don't want to hear it. I watch Sci-fi to get away from reality, not to see it all play out... again... in a fictional setting, no matter what the reason. So basically, the more a show tries to mirror real-life stuff, the less I want to watch it.

 

[MrChumley]

3 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

I get the same impression... and quite simply, without taking one side or the other... I just don't want to hear it. I watch Sci-fi to get away from reality, not to see it all play out... again... in a fictional setting, no matter what the reason. So basically, the more a show tries to mirror real-life stuff, the less I want to watch it.

 

I agree completely.  I only watched the first episode...

[WinkAllKerb'']

yup and gettin' old prolly doesn't help with some specific thing, but we all have some period with more this or that's could it be a tv show, a sport, some art, foods and etc. and etc.

by design it's impossible not do something

Edited October 3, 2017 by WinkAllKerb''

[TheKosmonaut]

2 hours ago, Just Jim said:

I get the same impression... and quite simply, without taking one side or the other... I just don't want to hear it. I watch Sci-fi to get away from reality, not to see it all play out... again... in a fictional setting, no matter what the reason. So basically, the more a show tries to mirror real-life stuff, the less I want to watch it.

 

If you wanted to watch Sci-Fi without commentary on contemporary socio and geo-political issues... oh boy, I got news for you. 

Star Trek has always been like this, it's just that some of the issues tackled in the show are commonly accepted now, or are part of history that really isn't connected to the current viewing generation as it was to the demographic in the 80s and 90s. Though, I think the very focused story-arc in this series is throwing people for a loop. They're used to seeing a relatively isolated episode in a week, which I don't think it's a bad thing, really. That said, I don't see political issues being tackled in this iteration that are exactly new, ultranationalism has been an issue forever in human history, it's a part of us, and the show has always been a reflection on us as a species. The aliens are just metaphors for certain aspects of our collective personalities. 

 

That said, this series is obviously a slightly darker take on Trek, which is off-putting for some. This is before the establishment of the Prime Directive as it's known in TNG, DS9, Voyager etc. There are General Orders that were mentioned but that's sort of a proto-PD. So I think this series will probably show why the UFP created a Prime Directive, IIRC there was a mention in another series that the Prime Directive was written in response to a conflict between the UFP and Klingon Empire. Which makes this series seem to be the impetus for such establishment of the rules. Capt. Lorca seems to also be a part of Section-31, which is also hinted by the fact that some of the people on the ship have black badges, also the last two digits of the ship registration number are 31, which may be a coincidence, but given the amount of easter eggs and attention to detail given thus far, I think it's deliberate. 
My personal theory is that the Discovery has the predecessor to the Iconian Gateway on board, and it will be used as a weapon's delivery platform which will be far beyond anything Starfleet/UFP will accept. Section 31 has been the skunkworks department for a while so it'll probably get shut down by the end of the series. Perhaps Burnham will commit an act of mutiny again, but this time it will be to save the Klingons from a certain fate that Lorca has planned. Lorca seems less than honest and has certain quirks when he lies (He looks away before telling a lie, and it's pretty consistent). 

TLDR: The show is darker because they're not exactly the utopian vision of humanity that Roddenberry has envisioned, yet.

[Just Jim]

19 minutes ago, TheKosmonaut said:

Star Trek has always been like this, it's just that some of the issues tackled in the show are commonly accepted now, or are part of history that really isn't connected to the current viewing generation as it was to the demographic in the 80s and 90s.

Yeah... true. maybe it's I just can't deal with reality like I used to when I was a kid... 

[TheKosmonaut]

23 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Yeah... true. maybe it's I just can't deal with reality like I used to when I was a kid... 

That's really true, as a kid I absolutely hated Deep Space 9, now that I'm older (not really any wiser), I think DS9 is probably my favorite of them all. Tastes and understanding changes over time.