Mars Colonization Discussion Thread

[Kerbal7]

1 minute ago, TheKSPBeginner said:

I'm sorry, for WHAT!?

Sounds like the freaky city.

[TheKSPBeginner]

Sounds more like a target for Kerbal armies to destroy.

[Antstar]

10 hours ago, Kerbal7 said:

Everything at Mars wants to kill you. Including the dirt. 

Mars Surface Is Looking Much Deadlier Than We Previously Thought

https://www.sciencealert.com/mars-surface-looks-to-be-much-more-deadly-than-we-previously-thought

I had not seen this. Thanks...

I'm a chemist. I promise you that 1) they are absolutely right: hard UV + perchlorate is bad for organic chemistry, let alone life. 2) perchlorates are not toxic to humans in multi gram amounts. In fact they used to be available as lozenges. As the article implies, UV is the killer here. And the right plastic is like SPF 10000+

8 hours ago, Green Baron said:

Edit: A series of satellites or landstrips does what exactly to create a planetary magnetic field ?

But even a magnetic field would not enable Mars to hold an atmosphere (not enough gravity) and no speculative process can generate one faster than it escapes.

Actually I was going to propose the same thing. Rings around the planet, made of superconducting magnets. Outrageous, but not impossible.

And a CO2 atmosphere is a good start, at least you have pressure and rad protection. It is much easier to build a thick CO2 atmosphere. Just ask Venus

[kerbiloid]

6 hours ago, DAL59 said:

Only one rotating city, for pregnancy.  

The pregnancy would last for 18..21 years until the embryo can buy alcohol and marry by himself.

The body finishes growing at 20..25 age.

5 hours ago, TheKSPBeginner said:

I'm sorry, for WHAT!?

E.T. detected.
Humans do not put eggs outside, they incubate them right inside the body. Funny but true.

[Green Baron]

3 hours ago, Antstar said:

Actually I was going to propose the same thing. Rings around the planet, made of superconducting magnets. Outrageous, but not impossible.

Here's the difference between our views. I think it is impossible because nobody can move the mass and provide the energy, control the dynamics etc. pp. And i still don't see how that works.

The fantasies i read deal with how to heat the core in such way that it starts working as a dynamo. Like blow up the planet with a doomsday bomb, connect a giant battery and heat it by resistance (duracell might sponsor ;-)), coil up a wire around it and send a current through it to heat the core inductively ... this sort of things. All more or less funny and fantastic.

And it still won't help to hold a thick atmosphere.

3 hours ago, Antstar said:

And a CO2 atmosphere is a good start, at least you have pressure and rad protection. It is much easier to build a thick CO2 atmosphere. Just ask Venus

There is not enough atmosphere, Mars isn't Venus. Maybe one could persuade the bound O in the Marsian crust to come out (*), but C isn't really there in quantity. The atmosphere is extremely thin. And the O, once released, will immediately start live out its tendencies to oxidise the place again afap.

(*) timelines and energies needed are handwavingly ridiculous.

Well, be it as it may. Colonization will remain a fantasy for the next couple of decades and probably beyond. Meanwhile hopefully moar data comes in the picture gets moar complete than before ...

[Shpaget]

On 2/21/2018 at 7:32 AM, Kerbal7 said:

We will build a mirror 300 miles across at Mars.

That's what, 0,25% of Mars cross section? Is that going to make a difference?

[kerbiloid]

Btw we can turn Phobosian aluminium into magnetic rings, too. Let's vote.

[Green Baron]

Oh, there is more than a minimum of aluminium in the Marsian crust, you don't need to throw down pebbles from Phobos.

Just bring this:

and the mining stuff and all the industry and people you need to run it. And to use the raw materials it produces.

Aluminium anyone ? For a minimum price ?

Cheers with an aluminiumminimumimmunity :-)

Edit: the water in the background is only the artist's impression

Edited February 22, 2018 by Green Baron

[PB666]

2 hours ago, Green Baron said:

Oh, there is more than a minimum of aluminium in the Marsian crust, you don't need to throw down pebbles from Phobos.

Just bring this:

and the mining stuff and all the industry and people you need to run it. And to use the raw materials it produces.

Aluminium anyone ? For a minimum price ?

Cheers with an aluminiumminimumimmunity :-)

Edit: the water in the background is only the artist's impression

Probably cheaper to extract it in space, what you call an aluminum drop on Mars . . . . . . .a bomb without an explosive charge. Good for dusting up those solar panels or occasionally upgrading the CEO who decided to settle on Mars.

You could make them into aluminum parachutes, of course they would have to be resmelted on the ground.

[NSEP]

 

[kerbiloid]

4 hours ago, PB666 said:

Probably cheaper to extract it in space, what you call an aluminum drop on Mars . . . . . . .a bomb without an explosive charge. Good for dusting up those solar panels or occasionally upgrading the CEO who decided to settle on Mars

They can put solar panels on a mountain and drop metals to its foot. Then pull up with ropes.

[PB666]

7 hours ago, NSEP said:

 

before the question mark as a comma and three more zeros.

But you know if you build you facilities underground in tunnels potentially you can take care of 3 of the major mars problems at once, shielding, deep enough and its not to difficult to hold atmosphere, and also you are able to move freely laterally to transport. The only thing is you need from the start to be very good at forging drilling equipment.

[kerbiloid]

• 2 100 000 000 000 USD = just 21 kharab USD
• 2 100 000 000 000 USD / ~10 000 ~= 210 000 000 BTC.

Boring Company should found a Alaskan subsidiary: Cool Mining Company.
It would mine bitcoins in a cool place and give money for Mars.

P.S.
Later they can use the same equipment on Mars which is even cooler.
This will make Martian colony economically self-sufficient.

Edited February 23, 2018 by kerbiloid

[Diche Bach]

$2.1 Trillion is a lot of "flamethrower" gag gifts . . .

[tater]

16 minutes ago, Diche Bach said:

$2.1 Trillion is a lot of "flamethrower" gag gifts . . .

Easy, just sell a flamethrower to every other human on Earth.

[kerbiloid]

Btw how should their flamethrowers work on Mars? There is no oxygen.

Either they are going to use some mixture which burns in CO₂, or they are preparing for tunnel battles. _{Doom, Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress}

[NSEP]

21 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Btw how should their flamethrowers work on Mars? There is no oxygen.

Either they are going to use some mixture which burns in CO₂, or they are preparing for tunnel battles. _{Doom, Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress}

The flamethrowers would carry their own oxygen.

Anyways, 2.1 trillion is way too low, considering its bassicly the same estimated cost of a Mars mission done by NASA, just to send 6 buddy's to Mars and back.

[YNM]

15 hours ago, NSEP said:

 

If things truly is perfect you won't need 1 million people to start though. Just start with 30 racialy-diverse people, you get yourself a territory.

[Bill Phil]

4 hours ago, NSEP said:

The flamethrowers would carry their own oxygen.

Anyways, 2.1 trillion is way too low, considering its bassicly the same estimated cost of a Mars mission done by NASA, just to send 6 buddy's to Mars and back.

2.1 trillion is too low for colonization, but a flags and footprints mission should only cost hundreds of billions, not trillions.

[wumpus]

On 2/22/2018 at 3:30 AM, Green Baron said:

There is not enough atmosphere, Mars isn't Venus. Maybe one could persuade the bound O in the Marsian crust to come out (*), but C isn't really there in quantity. The atmosphere is extremely thin. And the O, once released, will immediately start live out its tendencies to oxidise the place again afap.

Does Venus have a magnetosphere?  While any colonization of Venus would be the last step in an excruciatingly long-term process (starting with teraforming), I'm curious if it is indeed possible.

[NSEP]

16 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

2.1 trillion is too low for colonization, but a flags and footprints mission should only cost hundreds of billions, not trillions.

An old article, but this is what i based it around.

http://spacenews.com/op-ed-mars-for-only-1-5-trillion/

[Green Baron]

56 minutes ago, wumpus said:

Does Venus have a magnetosphere?

Nope. She rolls along slowly on her path ... not enough movement in the core :-)

[Bill Phil]

9 minutes ago, NSEP said:

An old article, but this is what i based it around.

http://spacenews.com/op-ed-mars-for-only-1-5-trillion/

In that article it gives a ballpark estimate of the first mission costing 230 billion. One mission. 230 billion. Not trillions.

That 1.5 trillion estimate is for 9 missions, and it assumes that the vehicle is expended for each mission. Which is not likely. There are known methods to make reentry less demanding on the vehicle. A ballute system could do the job, making the transfer vehicle reusable and lowering the cost to less than a trillion for the program.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

20 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

One mission. 230 billion. Not trillions.

That 1.5 trillion estimate is for 9 missions

That's all right. Nine attempts. One successful. So, 1.5 trln per this.

 

[Diche Bach]

19 minutes ago, Green Baron said:

Nope. She rolls along slowly on her path ... not enough movement in the core :-)

No foolin'?

Bit of a side-bar, but I'm curious: why all the atmosphere? Like, super DENSE atmosphere, isn't it?

Anyway, it seems clear, only the "cool kid" planets generate a magneto sphere . . .