Mars Colonization Discussion Thread

[Antstar]

11 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

• 2 100 000 000 000 USD = just 21 kharab USD
• 2 100 000 000 000 USD / ~10 000 ~= 210 000 000 BTC.

Boring Company should found a Alaskan subsidiary: Cool Mining Company.
It would mine bitcoins in a cool place and give money for Mars.

P.S.
Later they can use the same equipment on Mars which is even cooler.
This will make Martian colony economically self-sufficient.

Or, we can just mine bitcoins in space. Because space

[kerbiloid]

3 minutes ago, Antstar said:

Or, we can just mine bitcoins in space. Because space

In space you need radiators, otherwise you farm melts.

Mars has ice caps. The mining farm will melt them, so you get bitcoins, Mars gets a hydrosphere.

Edited February 23, 2018 by kerbiloid

[Antstar]

1 minute ago, kerbiloid said:

In space you need radiators, otherwise you farm melts.

LOL space is cold. Just hide behind your solar panels and black body to space (I was joking by the way)

[Kerbal7]

9 hours ago, Diche Bach said:

$2.1 Trillion is a lot of "flamethrower" gag gifts . . .

If you're a good flim-flam man, government subsidies could get you by with half that number. When the spécialité de la maison is the fantastical others are easily beguiled. While a inchoate understanding for the necessity of practicality can't stop the daydreamer.    

The will and capital doesn't exist to fix the city of Detroit. Here. On this planet.  Why believe we are going to fix a city 140 million miles away on another. And when that other is so utterly death-dealing, the absurdity of it screams out NO in a paroxysm of disgust for the realist.

But the cult members think he's taking them to Mars in the magic rocket. Hell, they think he invented the electric car. 

[Green Baron]

28 minutes ago, Diche Bach said:

No foolin'?

No :-)

28 minutes ago, Diche Bach said:

Bit of a side-bar, but I'm curious: why all the atmosphere?

So am i. Hypothesis is that a runaway greenhouse effect occurred. Exact reasons unclear ...

[tater]

10 minutes ago, Kerbal7 said:

But the cult members think he's taking them to Mars in the magic rocket.

 

This magical spacecraft that NASA has said will take us to Mars for 10+ years now, or a different one?

[Antstar]

11 minutes ago, Kerbal7 said:

If you're a good flim-flam man, government subsidies could get you by with half that number. When the spécialité de la maison is the fantastical others are easily beguiled. While a inchoate understanding for the necessity of practicality can't stop the daydreamer.    

The will and capital doesn't exist to fix the city of Detroit. Here. On this planet.  Why believe we are going to fix a city 140 million miles away on another. And when that other is so utterly death-dealing, the absurdity of it screams out NO in a paroxysm of disgust for the realist.

But the cult members think he's taking them to Mars in the magic rocket. Hell, they think he invented the electric car. 

As a non-American I can't see, why would anyone spend a cent on Detroit?? But if the US pres wanted, he could tell some people they are fired, make it a national priority, and it could be fixed in 12 months at huge expense to the rest of the country.

Speaking of flim flam men, nice picture of another man who didn't invent a thing is his life I take your point that Musk is given a lot of credit by the public for things he didn't really do himself...

[Kerbal7]

6 minutes ago, tater said:

This magical spacecraft that NASA has said will take us to Mars for 10+ years now, or a different one?

What do you find magical about the Orion capsule?

[tater]

1 minute ago, Kerbal7 said:

What do you find magical about the Orion capsule?

It's not taking us to Mars, which is how NASA has been selling it for years now (obviously not these days, as Mars is not the primary destination of record at the moment).

Currently, Orion is not magical itself, it's about as real as Crew Dragon or CST-100... OK, a little less real than those, but close.

[Kerbal7]

Just now, tater said:

It's not taking us to Mars,

If an attempt is made to take people to Mars in the next 25 years, Orion is going to be part of that mission plan.

[tater]

Just now, Kerbal7 said:

If an attempt is made to take people to Mars in the next 25 years, Orion is going to be part of that mission plan.

NASA has oversold Orion. You and I might know that Orion would just be a taxi to the real spacecraft, but I've seen it in kid's magazines in school (that my kids have brought home), sold as the spaceship that will take humans to Mars. NatGeo. NASA stuff as well. Regular people think that astronauts just climb aboard, and it send them to Mars. People are not smart, and they believe the flim-flam. That can come from NASA, as well as Musk.

The last bit I posted is important, as well. Assuming no delays, both commercial crew spacecraft will fly "all up" to ISS later this year (unmanned, but otherwise flight article). Orion has not flown once in 13 years. It will not in fact fly unitl EM-2, as the EM-1 mission is not a real, "all up" Orion CSM.

[NSEP]

10 minutes ago, Kerbal7 said:

If an attempt is made to take people to Mars in the next 25 years, Orion is going to be part of that mission plan.

Orion and BFR are two of the very few things in development that could take humans to Mars, so its pretty obvious. But like @tater said, Orion is just a taxi spacecraft, and can't go to Mars all by itself.

BFR and Orion are extremely different however. Orion is a spacecraft, designed to transport a couple of well trained Astronauts through deep space. BFR is a reusable rocket, with a refillable upper stage, that also has a pressurized living space or cargo bay.

Edited February 23, 2018 by NSEP

[Kerbal7]

12 minutes ago, tater said:

NASA has oversold Orion. You and I might know that Orion would just be a taxi to the real spacecraft, but I've seen it in kid's magazines in school (that my kids have brought home), sold as the spaceship that will take humans to Mars. NatGeo.

NatGeo is not NASA. These pop magazines love to stretch for a good story. That's why your man is so popular. I've never seen anyone in any credible position expect the Orion capsule to carryout a manned Mars mission by itself. Show me that NASA video or publication and you've got something.   

[tater]

22 minutes ago, Kerbal7 said:

NatGeo is not NASA. These pop magazines love to stretch for a good story. That's why your man is so popular. I've never seen anyone in any credible position expect the Orion capsule to carryout a manned Mars mission by itself. Show me that NASA video or publication and you've got something.   

I did, above. That's a NASA page.

 

 

I could go on. NASA has been calling Orion our ride to Mars for years now.

There are thousands of these official Orion posts, just on Twitter. NatGeo was quoting NASA.

Edited February 23, 2018 by tater

[Green Baron]

Not to Marsian ground if that was the impression but into its "vicinity", according to https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/orion/about/index.html

Edit: if (insert usual conditional stuff here) ... :-)

Edited February 23, 2018 by Green Baron

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, Kerbal7 said:

The will and capital doesn't exist to fix the city of Detroit. Here. On this planet.

Why?

Spoiler

 

[Canopus]

8 minutes ago, tater said:

I did, above. That's a NASA page.

 

 

I could go on. NASA has been calling Orion our ride to Mars for years now.

There are thousands of these official Orion posts, just on Twitter. NatGeo was quoting NASA.

Well all the Mars mission concepts for the last 15 years have an Orion at their core. For Crew launch, operations in Martian orbit (rendevouz with a Lander) and reentry.

[tater]

Just now, Canopus said:

Well all the Mars mission concepts for the last 15 years have an Orion at their core. For Crew launch, operations in Martian orbit (rendevouz with a Lander) and reentry.

I know. Everyone one of us HERE knows that Orion is just a taxi. My point is they have knowingly pushed it as the Apollo CM for Mars, where people think that that;s all it is. Orion, and a lander. There are tweets where they answer questions, and they say (paraphrased by me), "Orion is the size of an office cubicle inside, so there will be a habitat". That sounds like Orion, a bigelow, and a lander is all that is going. Not, "Orion brings crew to a giant spacecraft that actually does everything to get them to and from Mars."

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, tater said:

 

 

This magical spacecraft that NASA has said will take us to Mars

Roswell, New Mexico? They are really here?

 

[Kerbal7]

41 minutes ago, NSEP said:

Orion and BFR are two of the very few things in development that could take humans to Mars, so its pretty obvious.

I'm no one's rocket scientist and not eccentric enough to get into the nitty gritty details of the field. I do however listen to the experts in credible positions to skim the surface and get a good ideal of capabilities. I've yet to read or see a single expert in this field believe the BFR is anything but a joke. When talking about the BFR and SpaceX on forums the aerospace engineers crawl out of the woodwork singing its praises in blind faith. However, once again, I've yet to see or read anything about this magic rocket but things like ludicrous and bananas from those with certifiable, credible expertise.   

[NSEP]

5 minutes ago, Kerbal7 said:

I'm no one's rocket scientist and not eccentric enough to get into the nitty gritty details of the field. I do however listen to the experts in credible positions to skim the surface and get a good ideal of capabilities. I've yet to read or see a single expert in this field believe the BFR is anything but a joke. When talking about the BFR and SpaceX on forums the aerospace engineers crawl out of the woodwork singing its praises in blind faith. However, once again, I've yet to see or read anything about this magic rocket but things like ludicrous and bananas from those with certifiable, credible expertise.   

I'll keep my mouth shut untill the maiden flight or cancellation of the BFR.

[Kerbal7]

34 minutes ago, tater said:

I did, above. That's a NASA page.

 

 

I could go on. NASA has been calling Orion our ride to Mars for years now.

There are thousands of these official Orion posts, just on Twitter. NatGeo was quoting NASA.

Good god man. They're speaking colloquially with a pinch of fun on twitter. Not presenting serious Mars mission plans. If you can't tell the difference your judgement is beyond repair.   

[Bill Phil]

7 minutes ago, Kerbal7 said:

Good god man. They're speaking colloquially with a pinch of fun on twitter. Not presenting serious Mars mission plans. If you can't tell the difference your judgement is beyond repair.   

We can tell the difference. But John Q. Public may have some trouble.

NASA's Mars program has a big rocket, and it hasn't flown yet. SpaceX's future general purpose vehicle hasn't flown either. Yes, it could go to Mars, but that's just one of many possibilities. Almost no one here thinks it will be sending people (or anything, for that matter) to Mars before the early 2030s, at the earliest.

[DDE]

9 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Btw how should their flamethrowers work on Mars? There is no oxygen.

Do you even have to ask in a Kerbal forum?

Boring Flamethrower Mk II takes ClF5 canisters.

1 hour ago, Kerbal7 said:

If an attempt is made to take people to Mars in the next 25 years, Orion is going to be part of that mission plan.

1 hour ago, tater said:

NASA has oversold Orion. You and I might know that Orion would just be a taxi to the real spacecraft, but I've seen it in kid's magazines in school (that my kids have brought home), sold as the spaceship that will take humans to Mars. NatGeo. NASA stuff as well. Regular people think that astronauts just climb aboard, and it send them to Mars. People are not smart, and they believe the flim-flam. That can come from NASA, as well as Musk.

While I don't have a link, some 'science' 'journo' was so shellshocked by an SLS-related testfire that they've expressly written that Orion is capable of Mars ascent and landing.

Yes, the 'Journey to Mars' PR blitz has been that affective (Freudian slip, meant to say 'effective'). BFR doing something largely similar probably adds to the confusion in the plebs' minds.

Edited February 23, 2018 by DDE

[kerbiloid]

A 9 month long fly-by of Mars with ground samples collecting would be easier than 2.5 year long mission with landing.

The ship would be much lighter, probably 200..300 t instead of 1500 or so.