[1.12.x] Whirligig World Planetary System: An Absurd Homeworld In An Alien Solar System. 0.13.0: Dermun! Ice worlds! Better Scatterer!

[Whirligig Girl]

On 8/16/2022 at 4:51 AM, tilliepops said:

@GregroxMun after Whirligig World whats next?

girliwig world. after that? who knows. the great beyond is a mystery we all face one day.

[tilliepops]

On 8/19/2022 at 9:42 PM, GregroxMun said:

the great beyond is a mystery we all face one day

wize words

 

[yoarebignoob]

are there easter eggs

[Leganeski]

I recently started a career mode save in this system, and it's amazing! The challenges starting from Mesbin are totally different than on Kerbin, and it's really fun to explore them. For example, after setting up a refueling base at Thresomin, I eventually got it to work, but not before running into problems that I totally didn't see coming.

(Minor spoilers for docking in Thresomin orbit. Everything I describe is a logical consequence of information already on this thread, but it was fun to discover for myself, and you might feel the same way.)

Spoiler

• Thresomin orbits so close to Mesbin that the capture burn doesn't fit inside its SOI (unless your craft's TWR is above 90 m/s² for some reason). The mid-burn SOI change resets the maneuver display, making it unreliable for inserting into a specific orbit. I was able to get around this switching SAS from "hold maneuver" to "hold orbital retrograde" right after entering the SOI, and capturing into whatever orbit that resulted in. Once in orbit, maneuvering to rendezvous with the refueling base was cheap and easy due to Thresomin's small size.
   
• Mesbin is still quite large in the sky, and eclipses Kaywell-Limnel about 14% of the time (12 minutes of each 85-minute day). None of Mesbin's atmosphere is visible, so no refraction occurs, and when using Scatterer eclipses, the craft is in complete darkness. This happened during my docking attempt, and everything was so dark that I couldn't see where the craft that I was trying to refuel was. I was using an untrained pilot, so I had to manually keep pointing the base's claw at the target indicator on the navball. It took multiple tries, but I eventually got it to attach successfully (at a weird angle, but that doesn't matter for resource transfer).
   
• During the docking maneuver, I used the standard procedure of matching velocities with the target, and then firing the engines to go at about 1 m/s towards the target. Normally, this works fine, but here, the initial orbit was only at a velocity of 8 m/s, and the added impulse was enough to lower the periapsis of the docked crafts to an altitude of 600 m. It was still above zero, so I didn't notice the problem until I activated time warp (to wait for Mesbin to stop blocking Kaywell), and they crashed into a mountain.

After reloading back to right after docking and raising my periapsis into a stable orbit, I was able to get my lander to Kerbmun successfully. Using the base was way cheaper than going there directly, and it made the mission quite a bit more fun and interesting!

 

Also, I really like the diversity of moons in the system. So many other planet packs focus too much (in my opinion) on the planets, with only a few moons. Whirligig World does the exact opposite: there are moons everywhere, of all shapes and sizes, making the system feel so much more complete. The Mesbin-Derbin system, for instance, has nine explorable bodies plus a binary trojan and an asteroid belt, and its diversity is completely unmatched by any other planetary system I've ever seen in KSP.

[Whirligig Girl]

On 9/9/2022 at 6:40 AM, yoarebignoob said:

are there easter eggs

Sort of, but no custom surface constructs. Monoliths, randoliths, and various stock 'easter egg' constructs can be found on whirligig world's planets, but these are just due to the fact that most Kopernicus planets use templates of stock planets, and i haven't bothered individually removing the PQSCity instances from whirligig world's worlds.

There's some funny references in flavor text, but perhaps the best easter eggs are the [redacted]

Spoiler

There is a sort of an easter egg progression in whirligig world. i won't tell you anything about it or how to do it, and if you think you've found it, feel free to direct message me on discord or private message me on the forums to share your progress, but please, keep your revelations a secret for everyone else. If you want to know how it starts, consider:

Spoiler

Kerbals aren't able to explore the north pole of Mesbin on foot, the gravity's too high. So there's a lot about that gravitational environment that we just don't know about.

 

--------------------------------------

On 9/26/2022 at 10:32 PM, Leganeski said:

Also, I really like the diversity of moons in the system. So many other planet packs focus too much (in my opinion) on the planets, with only a few moons. Whirligig World does the exact opposite: there are moons everywhere, of all shapes and sizes, making the system feel so much more complete. The Mesbin-Derbin system, for instance, has nine explorable bodies plus a binary trojan and an asteroid belt, and its diversity is completely unmatched by any other planetary system I've ever seen in KSP.

I'm glad you're enjoying Whirligig World.

In general I do feel that satellite planets and minor planets are overlooked in science communication about the real world solar system, so I make sure to provide plenty of representation for both in Whirligig World. Satellite planets are where the real action is, not just from a planetary science standpoint, but from an orbital mechanics standpoint. They're so much more interesting to maneuver around and between compared to the hurry up and wait of interplanetary transfers.

On 8/16/2022 at 4:51 AM, tilliepops said:

@GregroxMun after Whirligig World whats next?

Week World Planet Jam --a collaboration between 10 modders to make a solar system within one week. It's now released.

Edited September 28, 2022 by GregroxMun
the link embed was to the wrong mod? huh?

[tilliepops]

57 minutes ago, GregroxMun said:

Week World Planet Jam --a collaboration between 10 modders to make a solar system within one week. It's now released.

oh yes that will be fun 

[yoarebignoob]

Spoiler

Quote

Kerbals aren't able to explore the north pole of Mesbin on foot, the gravity's too high. So there's a lot about that gravitational environment that we just don't know about.

i did sort of get to the north pole also by a rover and some lovely glitch abusing. (i reloaded and loaded saves to get science on deez poles)

i sort of did go to the north and south pole by rovers. (not the 90 degree on south)

should i land kerbals on reander due to the fact that it has a solid surface???

Edited September 30, 2022 by yoarebignoob

[Syczek]

Is possible to add this solar system as standalone one not replacer??

[halleyyy]

its great to see another gal (back in/still in) the KSP modding community!! im not sure if you remember me (formerly noah the smol, used to be extraordinarily irritating) but im so happy to see that whirligig still works and you're still doing well!

[MrCATZS]

I just want an sience report saying you spin me right round round

[Whirligig Girl]

On 11/5/2022 at 2:47 PM, MrCATZS said:

I just want an sience report saying you spin me right round round

sure thing

On 10/2/2022 at 6:51 AM, Syczek said:

Is possible to add this solar system as standalone one not replacer??

it has compatibility with an old mod called Interstellar Consortium, which handles homeworld swapping with other star systems installed, though i have no idea if that plugin still works.

[Space_Nerd123]

Fun fact: massive spoiler, do not click. You have been earned

Spoiler

FINAL WARNING

Spoiler

there's a secret terraformed file, it's up to you to find the config. gregox I do apologise, it's just cool to know.

 

 

[king of nowhere]

i'm planning a grand tour with kerbalism, with the caveat that i must use atmospheric CO2 to make fuel. kerbalism replaces regular isru with a more complex chain, and all those tiny body conveniently placed to be mined are just too convenient for my purposes.

CO2 seem absent from most atmospheres, though. in particular i got no CO2 - or 0.04%, which is below the treshold that can be mined - on kerbmun, tannor, oshan, egad, totooa, gannovar. even the other planets have a tiny tiny amount of CO2, with the sole exception of derbin, which is not suitable for refueling anyway.

is it intentional? CO2 is very abundant everywhere

[Leganeski]

17 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

CO2 seem absent from most atmospheres, though. in particular i got no CO2 - or 0.04%, which is below the treshold that can be mined - on kerbmun, tannor, oshan, egad, totooa, gannovar. even the other planets have a tiny tiny amount of CO2, with the sole exception of derbin, which is not suitable for refueling anyway.

is it intentional? CO2 is very abundant everywhere

Tannor, Lito, and Totoöa are all icy, so they might not have had the same volcanism processes that rocky planets do. The oceans of Kerbmun and Gannovar, and to a lesser extent Valyr, Imterril, and Lowel, have locked up most of the CO₂ from those atmospheres. I'm not really sure why Oshan has so little; maybe it used to have a liquid ocean?

Egad, though, is definitely supposed to have a lot of CO₂. Egad in particular is missing a configuration file for the Community Resource Pack, which could be why it doesn't.

Ollym does have a proper CRP config with a section giving it 93% CO₂, so harvesting CO₂ there should work in theory. I don't know how bad its thin atmosphere is for Kerbalism harvesters, but it can't be much worse than the similarly thin atmosphere on Mars.

[king of nowhere]

14 hours ago, Leganeski said:

Egad, though, is definitely supposed to have a lot of CO₂. Egad in particular is missing a configuration file for the Community Resource Pack, which could be why it doesn't.

Most definitely. I see it's supposed to also have nitrogen aplenty, while the game finds none of that too.

leaves me imterryl and lowel as viable refueling places, both with very low concentrations. well, I'll see what I can manage

[Lithium-7]

I have no clue why this happens, but for some reason the colors of Kerbmun's surface are broken in close-range. Everything looks fine from the Tracking Station and space, but up close it's pitch black, almost as if the procedural coloring is broken- but only up close.

Note that surface textures do appear to be working. I don't really know how procedural colors work, but it almost looks as though the game is coloring the ground using the heightmap.

 

Confirmed as broken on a 100% stock install save for the mods that are absolutely necessary to run Whirligig World. Bug occurs even if Mesbin is the home world.

I have posted this as an issue on the GitHub, though since I don't know which you'd be watching more actively, I posted here as well.

Pictures below, including my GameData folder:

Spoiler

 

Edit: Update.

Did a little more research, and discovered this odd effect.
It would seem that, from scaledspace, Kerbmun has no heightmap, but the color works fine. However, when I zoom in, the heightmap appears, but the colors break.
Very odd.

Spoiler

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Lithium-7
Found more info.

[Lithium-7]

OhioBob and I(well really it was all them, I just tested things) on the Kopernicus discord have located the source of both issues.
The flat scaledspace model is caused by this line:

sphericalModel = True

Setting it to false will cause the heightmap to appear in scaledspace.
The grayscale surface problem is caused by this line in the Kopernicus config:

EnableColorFix = True

Apparently, using LandControl to color terrain causes some issues, and Kopernicus automatically sets all the colors to 0,0,0,0.  Setting this value to false fixes Kerbmun.

According to OhioBob, the color fix thing was a recent change, probably after the most recent Whirligig World update. A simple band-aid solution could be to instruct players to set EnableColorFix to false in their Kopernicus config.

 

Edit: As a result of a conversation on the Kopernicus discord, it seems R-T-B has discovered that the color fix is no longer necessary, and it's been removed from the latest release. I tested that release and it works with Kerbmun right out of the box, though I'd imagine the flat scaledspace model is still a thing.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Lithium-7
Kopernicus update has fixed the grayscale terrain issue.

[Whirligig Girl]

On 2/12/2023 at 4:16 PM, king of nowhere said:

i'm planning a grand tour with kerbalism, with the caveat that i must use atmospheric CO2 to make fuel. kerbalism replaces regular isru with a more complex chain, and all those tiny body conveniently placed to be mined are just too convenient for my purposes.

CO2 seem absent from most atmospheres, though. in particular i got no CO2 - or 0.04%, which is below the treshold that can be mined - on kerbmun, tannor, oshan, egad, totooa, gannovar. even the other planets have a tiny tiny amount of CO2, with the sole exception of derbin, which is not suitable for refueling anyway.

is it intentional? CO2 is very abundant everywhere

I was not under the impression that Kerbalism functioned with WW. I was told a bug to do with both reparenting homeworlds (Kerbmun homeworld) and the time display system (Mesbin homeworld) rendered it unusable, which is why I haven't implemented compatibility yet.

Several planets have canon atmospheres with CO2.

Spoiler

Imterril has some I think, but its composition is not documented in its config.
Tannor: 1%
Kerbmun: 0.04%
Derbin 30%
Valyr: 0.45%
Oshan: 0.04%
Egad: 27%
Ollym: 93%
Lowel: 1.98%

the objects which completely lack CO2 are Gannovar (which might be an oversight, but it would only have trace amounts like Kerbmun), gas giants, and worlds so cold that CO2 should only exist as ice. (Lito & Totooa)

But there is no configuration to support Community Resources in atmospheres. It is eventually planned to fully support resource mods, but the only support so far iirc is for SpaceDust and i dont remember if that was even finished. AFAIK the atmospheres and surfaces should be devoid of any resources at all as it stands.

[Leganeski]

8 hours ago, GregroxMun said:

But there is no configuration to support Community Resources in atmospheres.

The folder WhirligigWorld/Resources/CRP appears to have configs for every atmosphere except Egad, and they look consistent with the numbers you just stated.

[Whirligig Girl]

6 hours ago, Leganeski said:

The folder WhirligigWorld/Resources/CRP appears to have configs for every atmosphere except Egad, and they look consistent with the numbers you just stated.

TIR. (today i remembered)

[Lithium-7]

I'm encountering a bizarre issue with solar panels. It seems like, at time warp values greater than 5, they just stop working entirely. The game still shows the correct Sun Exposure, and the panels do not report being obstructed, but the Energy Flow just bottoms out at 0.000.

Initially I thought that somehow it was because the barycenter was being used for sunlight calculations, and that Kaywell, Limnel or even Shol were somehow blocking the sunlight, but I don't think that's the case. It only- and always- happens at time warp values of at least 10x.

Has anyone else had this issue? I did a brief search of the thread and got no results.

 

Edit- Okay... now it's happening even outside of warp. I did a bit more testing, and I think it actually is the fact that the barycenter is being obstructed. For whatever reason, my panels will only generate solar power when they can see the barycenter.

I noticed that Beyond Home uses a multi star solar panels patch. I'm guessing there may be something broken about Kopernicus solar panel behavior. Going to install that in Whirligig World and see if that just fixes it.

 

Edit 2: That did not fix it. I'm not really sure why this is happening. Going to try to disable the barycenter instead.

 

Edit 3: Disabling the barycenter fixed the problem. When Limnel eclipses Kaywell, energy production goes waaaay down, as expected, but it still occurs. For some reason, the barycenter patch is causing Kaywell and Limnel to stop providing power. I think this is caused by the lines in the config which remove Kaywell and Limnel's light production values. You might be able to fix it by restoring those and just not giving the barycenter any light, but this probably causes other problems.

 

Edit 4: Well, I removed the light curve modifications from the barycenter config and I don't see any issues so far with solar power production. Lighting is weird- it's extremely bright even out by Gannovar, but Lowel seems to be receiving almost no light from Kaywell. I noticed Kaywell's lighting config and the barycenter's are different- the barycenter is way dimmer- so I went and replaced Kaywell's curve with that of the barycenter. Hopefully that fixes it.

 

Edit 5: It looks like removing the barycenter's light emission causes Scatterer to break on bodies it applies to. So, I think I'll have to just play without the barycenter enabled.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Lithium-7

[Wolves_Hero]

Stopped loading can't get in games, I founded out Interstellar Technologies mod not compatible on this mod, have no issued other planets/stars mod.
I was removed Interstellar Technologies, now worked fine loading got in games 

 

[king of nowhere]

On 2/24/2023 at 1:23 AM, GregroxMun said:

I was not under the impression that Kerbalism functioned with WW. I was told a bug to do with both reparenting homeworlds (Kerbmun homeworld) and the time display system (Mesbin homeworld) rendered it unusable, which is why I haven't implemented compatibility yet.

Several planets have canon atmospheres with CO2.

  Reveal hidden contents

Imterril has some I think, but its composition is not documented in its config.
Tannor: 1%
Kerbmun: 0.04%
Derbin 30%
Valyr: 0.45%
Oshan: 0.04%
Egad: 27%
Ollym: 93%
Lowel: 1.98%

the objects which completely lack CO2 are Gannovar (which might be an oversight, but it would only have trace amounts like Kerbmun), gas giants, and worlds so cold that CO2 should only exist as ice. (Lito & Totooa)

But there is no configuration to support Community Resources in atmospheres. It is eventually planned to fully support resource mods, but the only support so far iirc is for SpaceDust and i dont remember if that was even finished. AFAIK the atmospheres and surfaces should be devoid of any resources at all as it stands.

is there any chance that support for kerbalism - or other kinds of resource managements - would be implemented in the near future?
I started with the idea of running a grand tour of this system, but without those mods I don't really feel like it

Edited April 21, 2023 by king of nowhere

[king of nowhere]

Since there are a lot of worlds in this mod and it's hard to keep track, I made a map showing the general disposition of the planets and some general characteristics. I think it can be useful; could be included in the first page

[Whirligig Girl]

On 5/23/2023 at 2:38 PM, king of nowhere said:

Since there are a lot of worlds in this mod and it's hard to keep track, I made a map showing the general disposition of the planets and some general characteristics. I think it can be useful; could be included in the first page

 

please note that this contains a spoiler about Imterril, so it'd be nice if you'd put it in spoiler tags!

Second, Mesbin has about 13 G at the poles and 1.3 G at the equator, not 11 and 1.

It's a clever idea to make this, but to me it takes the fun out of it just a bit from the perspective of a new player, so I won't be putting it in the OP.