On an extremely serious note, do not remain silent!

[KSK]

23 hours ago, NSEP said:

Its already happending pal, its already happending. I have heard stories, here and there about it. Im not sure if im getting a bit too paranoid (i probably am). Im not super concerned about it, either.

Because when you are looking good today is bad, we are already near the everything is harassment border. My concern is not that its harder to talk to people, but its because people are slowly getting sensitive and concerned about thing aren't problems at all. Yes, i am paranoid of paranoid people.

Don't get me wrong, im not saying the examples shown above aren't REAL sexual harassment. If it involves injury and trauma, its something to definitely be against, and to be concerned about.

Context is king here I think. How well do you know the person you're addressing by telling them they're looking good? How old are they relative to you? Are you at work? You're looking good today (or equivalent) might be completely appropriate if I was talking to my wife, or a good friend, much less so if I was talking to one of the younger support staff (of any gender) at work, whom I barely know, and then only in a work environment.

Also - put the boot on the other foot. How would you feel if somebody told you you were looking good? Again, I'm thinking it would very much depend on context.

Speaking for myself, it would be fine from a friend, especially if I was having a bad day and not feeling that good. Out of the blue from a woman I don't know? Macho bravado aside (cos I was pretty much at the back of the queue when they were handing that out), I think it would be an awkward situation at best, creepy at worst. And it doesn't take too many awkward situations to add up to harassment.

#SpeakUp

Edited October 19, 2017 by KSK

[Chel]

Right. I don't want to get swept away into the black hole that is internet flamewars and long arguments (that to be honest, are pointless and achieve nothing), so I'm leaving as well. #ImOut

[Benjamin Kerman]

There is a great AskReddit thread (nsfw) that is about men being harrassed by women. It goes both ways, but men are less likely to speak up about it because of the social pressures. 

Men are less likely to know that a woman is being creepy. It comes off as heavy flirting. 

SPEAK UP

[Chel]

17 hours ago, Benjamin Kerman said:

There is a great AskReddit thread (nsfw) that is about men being harrassed by women. It goes both ways, but men are less likely to speak up about it because of the social pressures. 

Men are less likely to know that a woman is being creepy. It comes off as heavy flirting. 

SPEAK UP

Thankyou for adding that. There are lots of videos where a man attacks a woman in a public place, and people call the police and everything, but when the roles are reversed, people just stand there and laugh. It's just plain wrong that women are seen always as victims, while men can (and sadly are) also victims.

Damnit, now I'm in the conversation again

[p1t1o]

On 10/22/2017 at 6:01 AM, Benjamin Kerman said:

There is a great AskReddit thread (nsfw) that is about men being harrassed by women. It goes both ways, but men are less likely to speak up about it because of the social pressures. 

Men are less likely to know that a woman is being creepy. It comes off as heavy flirting. 

SPEAK UP

Its true, it is important to remember. It is easy to forget, not least because of the social factors mentioned. And it is equally devastating. Women are capable of violence, abuse, psychological torture, sexism, racism, you name it. All humans are.

However,  the vast number - this is certain, even with unreported cases - of incidents are male-on-female and male-on-male, going to the mat to expose female-on-male incidents specifically, is like arguing that there is black-on-white racism whilst at a march against racially aggrivated police brutality. We KNOW there is such a thing as black-on-white racism, but its kill-count pales in comparison.

We should be speaking out against ALL assault and harassment, no matter the sexes involved, without specificity.

Yes, female aggressors are equally malign and insidious and should be treated equally.

But if you specify in your protest, you blame. 

And if you blame, its as if you are saying "Them, not us!"

Which, since all sexes do it to some extent, is a lie.

 

It can feel sometimes, being male, that we are being personally blamed for these things. This is not how it works. That is a selfish position, assuming that you are a victim. Let the absurdity of that statement sink in.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by p1t1o

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

On 19.10.2017 at 11:09 PM, KSK said:

How would you feel if somebody told you you were looking good?

 

On 19.10.2017 at 11:09 PM, KSK said:

from a friend

Laughs at me. No problem, I'll "revenge" him later.

Spoiler

On 19.10.2017 at 11:09 PM, KSK said:

from a woman I don't know

Wants something. Maybe to sell me for organs.

Spoiler

On 22.10.2017 at 8:01 AM, Benjamin Kerman said:

about men being harrassed by women

In my school days I was several times bullied by elder girls, but was too youngster to enjoy my chance.

 

[tater]

Assault has a specific meaning, requiring the use of force.

Language is never violence. The answer to language you don't like, is usually more (and better) language. Some guy is hitting on you in a creepy way? Shut him down. Maybe it's because I'm used to women who are smart, and no-nonsense. My wife would switch to surgeon voice, and shut down anyone giving her crap.

I'd prevent physical violence, but intervening vs verbal nonsense is a de facto statement to the woman in question that she's a lesser being, incapable of dealing with the world without the help of a man. Hopefully my daughter has been paying attention these years, and realizes that she's the boss of herself (she's sharp-witted, and sharp-tongued, too, I pity the guy who gets in her way).

Edited October 23, 2017 by tater

[TheSaint]

5 hours ago, p1t1o said:

Its true, it is important to remember. It is easy to forget, not least because of the social factors mentioned. And it is equally devastating. Women are capable of violence, abuse, psychological torture, sexism, racism, you name it. All humans are.

Oh, so you've met my mother I see....

6 minutes ago, tater said:

Assault has a specific meaning, requiring the use of force.

Language is never violence. The answer to language you don't like, is usually more (and better) language. Some guy is hitting on you in a creepy way? Shut him down. Maybe it's because I'm used to women who are smart, and no-nonsense. My wife would switch to surgeon voice, and shut down anyone giving her crap.

I'd prevent physical violence, but intervening vs verbal nonsense is a de facto statement to the woman in question that she's a lesser being, incapable of dealing with the world without the help of a man. Hopefully my daughter has been paying attention these years, and realizes that she's the boss of herself (she's sharp-witted, and sharp-tongued, too, I pity the guy who gets in her way).

I wish my daughter were just sharp-tongued. Lately with her we've been working on, "When your brothers do something you don't like, use your words, don't hammer fist them." I'm not worried about her being harassed by men, I'm more worried about having to post her bail afterwards.

[tater]

LOL.

My daughter is older than her brother, who to her is merely an annoyance.

 

[Chel]

19 hours ago, p1t1o said:

However,  the vast number - this is certain, even with unreported cases - of incidents are male-on-female and male-on-male, going to the mat to expose female-on-male incidents specifically, is like arguing that there is black-on-white racism whilst at a march against racially aggrivated police brutality. We KNOW there is such a thing as black-on-white racism, but its kill-count pales in comparison.

So? You're pretty much saying that 'yes this happens', but 'you shouldn't raise awareness of the issue because it happens less frequently'. If there is an issue, no matter how big or small, it needs to be looked at. Just because, let's say, 1 in 10 women experience domestic violence, as oppose to 1 in 25 men experience domestic violence, doesn't mean that it should only focus on women (even though they are the majority of victims). There is still 1 in 25 men experiencing domestic violence, and something needs to be done about that as well.

[stibbons]

Just once, it would be nice to have a discussion about problems women face without constant attempts to make it actually about men.

[p1t1o]

1 hour ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

So? You're pretty much saying that 'yes this happens', but 'you shouldn't raise awareness of the issue because it happens less frequently'. If there is an issue, no matter how big or small, it needs to be looked at. Just because, let's say, 1 in 10 women experience domestic violence, as oppose to 1 in 25 men experience domestic violence, doesn't mean that it should only focus on women (even though they are the majority of victims). There is still 1 in 25 men experiencing domestic violence, and something needs to be done about that as well.

Dont make up stats please, this is serious.

At no point did I say you shouldnt raise awareness, just not one type over another.

I covered this point exactly with the example of racism I used in my comment.

Edited October 24, 2017 by p1t1o

[Chel]

Don't make up stats: 'let's say'. 'let's say' 'let's say'

That implies that I am using it as an example. I was not actually saying that 1 in 10 women and 1 in 25 men DO experience domestic violence, I was creating an example for my argument.

[sh1pman]

On 18.10.2017 at 9:17 PM, NSEP said:

Im against, and of course (i hope) everyone else here is against sexual assault. Just dont make it so Hi, you are looking good today! will be considered sexual assault in the future. Thanks, and bye.

Well, that sounds pretty abusive already. Also promotes lookism. Judging people upon their appearance is bad, I wouldn't say that to anyone.

 

kappa

[Vanamonde]

Since this thread is now more about proving which of us is right about what rather than raising awareness of a social problem, it's time to move on to other discussions.