Better Than Starting Manned Revival?

[Jacke]

Nothing we can do about changing licences.

 

1 hour ago, weissel said:

And that is a pretty sad thing if it hits good mods.   (You can always add a “now new versions for x time yadda yadda and the licence reverts from ARR to <a licence that lets people keep it/a variant under a different name/... alive>.)

Something can be put under difference licences for different conditions, but I'd advise against using such a complex and time-dependent condition.  Too easy to get it wrong.

I'd always say it would be better to just licence under one of the share-alike CC licences, the GPL, or any other licence that allows the project to be forked.  But some people want more control.  However, I've also heard from some modders they'll never contribute again to an All-Rights-Reserved project or something similarly restricted as it's just too easy for all their work to be lost.

 

[weissel]

CC licenses are not good for programs — no need to include the source code — but probably good for textures, meshes, models and art.

[Belthize]

Other than a brief interlude about 15 months ago I pretty much stopped playing KSP when BTSM died with 1.05.  I recognize some of the names here and the bit of thread archived above.  I got a notice about 1.4.2 so I decided to pop in and give KSP another go.  I knew BTSM was dead but started poking around for other mods which is how I ran across this thread.  So +1 type <wave>.

Unfortunately I only poke my head in when there's a new release which means it in an unsettled state w.r.t. mods.  I strongly suspect I'll just wander off again and lose interest before things settle out. Stock KSP isn't really my cup of tea and the idea of grinding science by randomly driving around the parking lot just gives me chills.

[Jacke]

On 3/21/2018 at 11:11 PM, weissel said:

CC licenses are not good for programs — no need to include the source code — but probably good for textures, meshes, models and art.

Good point.  I think CC licenses are used for KSP mods because Squad requires the source to be available.

 

1 hour ago, Belthize said:

Unfortunately I only poke my head in when there's a new release which means it in an unsettled state w.r.t. mods.  I strongly suspect I'll just wander off again and lose interest before things settle out. Stock KSP isn't really my cup of tea and the idea of grinding science by randomly driving around the parking lot just gives me chills.

@Belthize, your situation is very familiar.  My own play of KSP hasn't been the same since I gave up on my last KSP 1.0.4 BTSM game.  I've poked at KSP about every major and some minor releases, but there's not really a mod that matches BTSM for a better career.  I do want to get farther this time.  I'll look at Seti UBM, along with @theonegalen's Extended Tech Tree, but I think making a better career for KSP may take more radical measures.

[sarbian]

53 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Good point.  I think CC licenses are used for KSP mods because Squad requires the source to be available.

 

CC license are for "art" and are ill suited for code. KSP plugins usually go with MIT/BSD/(L)GPL and related

[Pusteblume!]

This is the reason i always kept two directories for KSP:

1. An eternal 1.0.4. KSP with BTSM- that will perpetually stay in this state for the sole purpose of enabling me to play a challenging game.
2. And the usually up-to-date KSP to just tinker around here and there.

 

And ,yes, I am still in an active game of BTMS 1.0.4.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Pusteblume!

[Jacke]

58 minutes ago, Pusteblume! said:

...I am still in an active game of BTMS 1.0.4.

 

I still have my KSP 1.0.4 install with BTSM as well.  When I was reviewing the rover designs I made in BTSM, I even fired it up a couple of weeks ago to look at my designs.  Turned out there was one I'd forgotten about and never took any screenshots of.  So I took it out for a spin and photos.

Spoiler

I put together 3 albums of screenshots of my BTSM Mun rovers, with notes on each photo that tells the tale as best I could recall.  All were just tested on Kerbin in a parallel BTSM sandbox.  Never flew them to Mun.

KSP v0.23.5 BTSM_004 20140529a-Rover_1-A-1

KSP v0.90 BTSM_011 20150317a-Rovers_Kerbin_testing

KSP v1.0.4 BTSM_014 20180911a-KSP0.90-Rovers

Anyhoo, it was nostalgic firing up BTSM again and I will keep the install.  But I don't think I'll play anymore in BTSM.  I always wanted more that what BTSM had and put in more mods as long I was just stretching the nature of BTSM and not breaking it.  (For example, no parts mods, except for the FASA launch clamps, and even them I made sure I got them at the same tech as the stock launch clamp.)

And even @FlowerChild thought you could get a sort-of reasonable game out of KSP 1.0.5 and 1.1 by turning down the science.   And KSP has moved on and has many cool features, ones I want to have.  So I'll play current KSP and see what sort of game and career mod I can make meself.  I've got some ideas and patience to craft something good.

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by Jacke

[Thygrrr]

On 11/23/2017 at 10:29 PM, Ten Key said:

It's also worth mentioning that BTSM was released as "All Rights Reserved".

Yeah, FlowerChild comes across as a somewhat egomanic character at times, their Minecraft Mod Better than Wolves (essentially the best MC mod ever made) is also strictly All Rights Reserved, Do Not Distribute.

Cannot argue with FlowerChild's extremely good design skills, though. Guess the terms are warranted.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Thygrrr

[Mr Shifty]

On 11/23/2017 at 11:25 AM, rohanguard1 said:

Ok, so this is a big order.

I want better than starting manned back.

I know that people have copies of this mod on their computers.

I still have a copy on my computer from 2015 (saved with KSP version 1.04 and compatible versions of its compatible mods intact.) Fired it up this evening for nostalgia's sake and it is still awesome. What a magnificent experience this mod was: far better in every way than stock career mode and better than any other mod I've ever played. Too bad it's gone forever. Criminal that the forum wipe killed the original thread.

[weissel]

8 hours ago, Mr Shifty said:

I still have a copy on my computer from 2015 (saved with KSP version 1.04 and compatible versions of its compatible mods intact.) [...] Too bad it's gone forever.

Contradiction in terms. You have it, therefore it cannot be gone forever.

Quote

Criminal that the forum wipe killed the original thread.

Force majeure does not make a crime.  Pity, yes.  Loss, yes. Crime, no.

 

[Jacke]

On 1/25/2019 at 10:42 AM, weissel said:

Contradiction in terms. You have it, therefore it cannot be gone forever.

Alas, not having a current BTSM that's being discussed in its own forum topic.  Players posting cool screenshots and mission reports.  Not having a community.

It isn't just the loss of BTSM itself.  Many of us have a KSP 1.0.4 install with BTSM that we can use to fly old games and create new ones.  But we don't have a community (outside of this rarely updated thread), with old-timers and new-comers sharing their tales.

That's what we lost.

 

Quote

Force majeure does not make a crime.  Pity, yes.  Loss, yes. Crime, no.

Agreed.  The loss of the BTSM topic was a pity and the final nail in its coffin.

And looking around, I see the other career mods that changed things around in a similar way have also mostly fallen by the way-side.

Would that I had the time and energy to make my own career mod.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Jacke

[EchoLima]

If anyone's interested, there's an archived version of the BTSM thread here, from 2015.

[weissel]

17 hours ago, Jacke said:

Alas, not having a current BTSM that's being discussed in its own forum topic.  Players posting cool screenshots and mission reports.  Not having a community.

It isn't just the loss of BTSM itself.  Many of us have a KSP 1.0.4 install with BTSM that we can use to fly old games and create new ones.  But we don't have a community (outside of this rarely updated thread), with old-timers and new-comers sharing their tales.

That's what we lost.

I agree to that, but ... how about those that actively play BTSM for KSP 1.0.4 (which is not the last *complete* complete version, either --- the 'last level' is not really done) or the one for KSP 0.98, IIRC (with the old aero"dynamics" but the last level available) do make a thread, post their pics and mission report and so on?
Or even use this very thread?

That does not need any special powers, incurs no licensing problems even with ARR mods and absent developers. Posting these things now is no more effort than it was when the BTSM thread was alive & active and the mod in active development.

[Jacke]

3 hours ago, weissel said:

I agree to that, but ... how about those that actively play BTSM for KSP 1.0.4 (which is not the last *complete* complete version, either --- the 'last level' is not really done) or the one for KSP 0.98, IIRC (with the old aero"dynamics" but the last level available) do make a thread, post their pics and mission report and so on?
Or even use this very thread?

Sure, that could be done, and if done, I'd suggest starting a new topic and just posting a link here (as well as linking back).

The problem comes down to the difference between KSP versions.  Right now we're on 1.6.1.  There's a large community on 1.3.1 due to various reasons, but it's not that much different.   And BTSM is on 1.0.4 and 0.98.  There's a lot of difference between them and 1.3.1.

How do you recruit new players, because  a new community needs to recruit to counteract the loss of people.  I have a KSP 1.0.4 install and likely all the BTSM versions.  But I don't have a KSP 0.98 install.  And neither is available from Steam, which only goes back to KSP 1.0.5, which won't work.

You can do this.  But when I played my KSP 1.0.4 BTSM last, I felt the lack of being current.  And that there was a limit to my enjoyment.

There's a lot of good in the current versions of KSP.  And there's things like the Probes Before Crew tech tree mod, which I just discovered yesterday.

I think it would be better to move on to new things still being developed.