Air Superiority Fighter Competition Continued

[exbyde]

1 hour ago, Frozen_Heart said:

Looks like my fighters are not even close to good enough. The mini val flattens them. 

 

They don't even get a chance to fire.

tbh mini val happened to be good. I was originally making a plane that worked off a goliath engine and came up with something that looked like an xb-70 with less engines after finding out the goliath's turbine acceleration is gahbage. its tactic is radar guided missile spam for routing then excessive guns, so just make sure your chaff/ecm/flares are up to snuff (or have some sidewinders) and then its just a maneuverability match.

This thread is coming up on 60 pages between this and the original. There's been a lot of time to refine and develop tactics. Don't be scared, don't be discouraged, if something's kicking you, dissect its tactics until you can kick back. or consult one of the others, eidahlil definitely knows his stuff, as does earthlinger

Edited January 9, 2018 by exbyde

[Piatzin]

18 minutes ago, exbyde said:

as does earthlinger

I do? GASP

With maneuverability though. Still haven't played around with the AI settings lol

[Frozen_Heart]

1 hour ago, Earthlinger said:

Do you want me to look one over? I can probably offer some decent tips on maneuverability...

Ok sure. It was built in an older version of BD so lack of radar is one of the problems. Trouble is it is so small it can't fit a radar either.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o32bk36mblpsjak/F-130_Iris.craft?dl=0

 

[Piatzin]

2 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said:

Ok sure. It was built in an older version of BD so lack of radar is one of the problems. Trouble is it is so small it can't fit a radar either.

You could probably offset a radar into that main fuel tank. From what I can see though, you only have heat-seeking missiles on it, and guns don't use radar. So being radar-free is probably best for the plane

I'll take a look at it tomorrow. It's 10 at night where I am

[Frozen_Heart]

1 minute ago, Earthlinger said:

You could probably offset a radar into that main fuel tank. From what I can see though, you only have heat-seeking missiles on it, and guns don't use radar. So being radar-free is probably best for the plane

I'll take a look at it tomorrow. It's 10 at night where I am

Ok thanks. I had very limited planes to look at while building it so this is a trial by fire.

[Thor Wotansen]

Pretty much every time I try to build a super maneuverable fighter plane that works with the AI I fail miserably.  The only exception to this was my Sanngrior design.  Every other good fighter I've built, I did completely by accident.  I suspect that some others on this thread have similar stories about making a great fighter.  I'm slowly learning what the AI will actually fly good, but there's so many variables, and the whole exercise is more of an art form, rather than a science.  Also what the hell is pitch ki?

[Abraxis]

It is written in the ten commandments that bd ai is bad

 

pitch ki is also the single greatest scam since global warming

[exbyde]

@Thor Wotansen did some test dogfights against a new variant of the mini val and the dn-65c

 

[Eidahlil]

4 hours ago, Frozen_Heart said:

Ok sure. It was built in an older version of BD so lack of radar is one of the problems. Trouble is it is so small it can't fit a radar either.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o32bk36mblpsjak/F-130_Iris.craft?dl=0

Just take off with it, and try to pitch up. It should respond like a jet fighter and not like a 737.

Trouble is the Iris' real center of lift is so far behind it's center of mass. You've fooled yourself into thinking it is not by tilting the forward wing a touch, but that only fixed it for one specific AoA.

And it will be very problematic to fix without spoiling the form factor AND keeping radar cross-section below 5. But if you can do that, we'll make a fighter plane out of it.

You've got the rest of fundamentals alright - looks nice, TWR is good, wing loading is reasonable, armament could always use more guns and ammo, but you're just fine where you are with it.

There is some other stuff, like you have a service bay, but for some reason the AI and the weapon manager are not in it, you'll need an ECM and batteries to fit in the current meta, your AI pilot is overdamped, but those are easy to fix.

[MDZhB]

I'd like to submit my upgraded aerofighter: the F-4L Super Key. This one's better because more maneuverability, better AI, and more firepower. Plus it just looks better.

[Thor Wotansen]

@exbyde thanks for the tests.  It really does ok for a plane that doesn't use thrust vectoring.  It seems to have a hard time getting missiles on the DN-65c though, and I don't know why.  But hey, not bad for a plane I designed mainly for ground attack and looking cool.

[Piatzin]

9 hours ago, Eidahlil said:

You've got the rest of fundamentals alright - looks nice, TWR is good, wing loading is reasonable, armament could always use more guns and ammo, but you're just fine where you are with it.

@Frozen_Heart ^what he said. Although I strongly recommend you add a second Vulcan. Jammers aren't too necessary, seeing how small the craft is. You don't have a form of producing electricity though, so add an RTG near the back (in order to bring the mass backwards a bit) and two advanced canards near the front (to bring the center of lift forwards). Also, the weapon manager settings are a bit unconventional. You had the max gun range set to 2000, but I suggest you put it to 2500, which is the max range of the Vulcan cannon. Firing interval should be set to the lowest possible value, and the burst length should be at max.

Other than that, good plane It looks nice and flies well. It's just a little unbalanced.

[darth_bachious]

Hereby I would like to submit my fighter: The 325A "Raider".

Armament: 4 AMRAAM, 4 AIM-9, 4 Hidden Vulcans

Defensively, it uses radar jammers and flares, many, many flares.

 

DISCLAIMER: Tends to crash into other aircraft mid-air

 

Feedback would be appreciated though.

 

Link to craft:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ohxpoFt6UUUcDCzCL9QkxL_V_gzHYXkk/view

 

 

 

[exbyde]

3 hours ago, Thor Wotansen said:

@exbyde thanks for the tests.  It really does ok for a plane that doesn't use thrust vectoring.  It seems to have a hard time getting missiles on the DN-65c though, and I don't know why.  But hey, not bad for a plane I designed mainly for ground attack and looking cool.

dn-65c is stealthy (low profile). Something added in BDAC 1.0, so radar doesn't fire. Either BDA AI is failing or aircraft is trying to dodge and is failing to fire because of that.

3 hours ago, darth_bachious said:

DISCLAIMER: Tends to crash into other aircraft mid-air

 

Feedback would be appreciated though.

 

Link to craft:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ohxpoFt6UUUcDCzCL9QkxL_V_gzHYXkk/view

Alternative forms of offense are always appreciated. we can take a look at it

[Eidahlil]

On 1/9/2018 at 5:20 AM, exbyde said:

3. Thrust vectoring is very critical, very few aircraft make it on the board without a panther engine or the like.

4. Too many missiles, 25% of your parts are missiles or missile rails.

Junos are the new Panthers!

Missile spam is dead! Long live missile spam!

http://kerbalx.com/juzeris/Hedgedrone.craft

Let's see if that works.

 

5 hours ago, Thor Wotansen said:

It seems to have a hard time getting missiles on the DN-65c though, and I don't know why.

1 hour ago, exbyde said:

Something added in BDAC 1.0, so radar doesn't fire. Either BDA AI is failing or aircraft is trying to dodge and is failing to fire because of that.

It's the ECM. They cannot get a lock, so they do not fire, simple as that.

20 hours ago, Thor Wotansen said:

That seems exceedingly strange.  In 1v1's vs the Sanngrior Mk 2 I was seeing it on the radar at around 8km, but apparently in a 3v3 there is no radar contacts?  Are you using BDArmory 1.0 or 1.1?

The Sanngrior Mk 2 has no battery, so doesn't really use the ECM the same way as everyone else.

[exbyde]

Anyone with a little more technical knowledge: i'm getting a lot of garbage collection pauses, even with low-part craft, 4-5 times a second. Any help on how to reduce this?

Edited January 10, 2018 by exbyde

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Eidahlil said:

Junos are the new Panthers!

Missile spam is dead! Long live missile spam!

http://kerbalx.com/juzeris/Hedgedrone.craft

Let's see if that works.

 

It's the ECM. They cannot get a lock, so they do not fire, simple as that.

The Sanngrior Mk 2 has no battery, so doesn't really use the ECM the same way as everyone else.

Oh...

[AlexClark]

28 minutes ago, exbyde said:

Anyone with a little more technical knowledge: i'm getting a lot of garbage collection pauses, even with low-part craft, 4-5 times a second. Any help on how to reduce this?

What other processes in Windows are you running? I usually have to kill 4 or 5 processes when that happens.

[exbyde]

2 minutes ago, AlexClark said:

What other processes in Windows are you running? I usually have to kill 4 or 5 processes when that happens.

google chrome , file explorer,  and nvidia stuff

[Abraxis]

Oh God. 5 times every second...

Apart from a full restart, I don't really have any other solution when that happens on my end. 

It does however, seem to me, that craft with their scan interval set low (0.1-0.001) tend to slow down the game much more heavily, so that might have something to do with the buildup. 

[AlexClark]

5 minutes ago, exbyde said:

google chrome , file explorer,  and nvidia stuff

Usually Windows Updater, anti virus/firewalls and other programs that auto update are running in the background processes. If I know I'm going to be running a test that will push my machine, I disconnect the internet and kill any non-windows processes.

Even with 16Gb of DDR3, i5, ssd, and Asus 1Gb video card, I still run into problems like that occasionally.

Edited January 10, 2018 by AlexClark

[exbyde]

2 minutes ago, AlexClark said:

Usually Windows Updater, anti virus/firewalls and other programs that auto update are running in the background processes. If I know I'm going to be running a test that will push my machine, I disconnect the internet and kill any non-windows processes.

Even with 16Gb of DDR3, i5, ssd, and Asus 1Gb video card, I still run into problems like that occasionally.

yeah, i'm actually upgrading to 16gb in a bit, ram's getting ordered momentarily.

[AlexClark]

Just now, exbyde said:

yeah, i'm actually upgrading to 16gb in a bit, ram's getting ordered momentarily.

When I jumped from 8 to 16, it was noticeable immediately. The ssd helped a lot too. The new machine I'm building for "work" will have 32G DDR4, i7, and an Asus GTX 1050.

[Piatzin]

I feel like @Thor Wotansen's Bear would do very well as a heavy ordnance ground attack plane. Lots of space on those wings

[Thor Wotansen]

1 minute ago, Earthlinger said:

I feel like @Thor Wotansen's Bear would do very well as a heavy ordnance ground attack plane. Lots of space on those wings

That is sort of what I designed it for, I initially had air to ground missiles liberally dotted about the airframe, but then I realized it could do maneuvers that something with that much wing area and a COL behind the COM shouldn't do, so I adapted it.  It can carry something like 24 Hellfires, or whatever the small black ones are called, and still have space for AIMs and targeting pods etc.