Laser vs Electrolaser: efficiency

[DDE]

In terms of delivery of energy to target at a given total input, what's better: a simple zap with resultant mechanical damage, or a quick flash to create a conductive channel for an ordinary electric shock?

Question inspired by a Fallout 4.

Edited January 2, 2018 by DDE

[wumpus]

7 hours ago, DDE said:

In terms of delivery of energy to target at a given total input, what's better: a simple zap with resultant mechanical damage, or a quick flash to create a conductive channel for an ordinary electric shock?

I'm having trouble even processing the idea behind this.  But some ideas:

Laser blast: inefficient to produce, "scales at 1/d**2 but can be focused to essentially zero out scaling for ranges under consideration.
Electric shock: scales roughly linearly, but with a voltage drop in the hundreds of volts per cm.
Near field transfer: wildly more efficient than laser blast, effectively transfers power where the wavelength of the signal>>distance traveled (and falls of by a cubic factor).  This is used for "charging at a distance" and presumably much more efficient than zapping via spark.  Forget about a laser (or even a maser) and assume appropriate RF wavelengths.

Assuming that you wanted to be far away from whatever you are attacking, I'd recommend the laser (don't expect to focus at interplanetary distances, but it should work well at Fallout game distances).  Unfortunately for Buck Rogers, standard guns will make more sense for any realistic laser or target (the US Navy might disagree for seriously *large* guns), this came up in the Traveller role playing game and an explanation as to why it came with some many 20th (and slightly advanced) century guns.

Edited January 2, 2018 by wumpus
s/20th /20th century

[kerbiloid]

-A laser bullet.

[0111narwhalz]

16 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

-A laser bullet.

What exactly does this mean? Some kind of bomb-pumped graser?

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, 0111narwhalz said:

What exactly does this mean? Some kind of bomb-pumped graser?

A flying battery with a single-shot emitter. To keep energy along the trajectory and discharge right into the target.

Kinda micro-(nuke-powered gamma-laser), but not gamma and not nuke-powered.

Also, don't forget that if the bullet can emit the energy into the correct direction (not just straight forward), machine-gun bursts are not required.

(When I was trying to systematize magic systems of HoMM, Arcanum, Ultima, etc, I was shocked when realized how stupid are those fireballs.
A pure loss of a pure energy.
A true scientifically educated archmage should invent a spell which would just create that fireball inside a target, not moving through the air.)

Edited January 3, 2018 by kerbiloid

[Nuke]

19 hours ago, 0111narwhalz said:

What exactly does this mean? Some kind of bomb-pumped graser?

it means somebody really liked judas priest's painkiller. 

 

great album. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Nuke

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

On 04.01.2018 at 3:59 AM, Nuke said:

it means somebody really liked judas priest's painkiller. 

If this is about me, even haven't heard about

 

[Zeiss Ikon]

I don't see lasers replacing "kinetic energy weapons" for general purpose mayhem any time soon -- as noted above, it's far easier at a human-portable scale to carry around small premeasured quantities of chemical propellant and use those to induce kinetic energy in a sturdy mass, than to try to keep enough electrical energy in a portable battery/capacitor/generator to produce a damaging laser pulse.

A ruby laser that can burn a tiny pinhole in a razor blade weighs, at a minimum, around 10 kg, and the (additional 5 kg) battery is good for half a dozen pulses, max.  Due to focusing requirements, it can do this only at a precisely set distance.  A pistol that can punch a 10 mm hole through metal thicker than a razor blade at any range up to at least 25 m (likely more), and still kill afterward, weighs about 3  to 3.5 kg loaded with as many as 18 cartridges -- and another magazine of 18 weighs around half a kg.  Also, the pistol commonly costs less than $1000 (mine was about $650, factory new), while just the ruby rod for the laser above costs more than that unless you can find one at surplus.

[PB666]

You guys are funny.

What is this incessant need some feel that they need to kill something in space.

Its quite easy, pressure . . . . .create opening to vacuum . . . . .no pressure.

 

 

[KG3]

 

On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 9:31 AM, DDE said:

In terms of delivery of energy to target at a given total input, what's better: a simple zap with resultant mechanical damage, or a quick flash to create a conductive channel for an ordinary electric shock?

Question inspired by a Fallout 4.

 

I think DDE is asking about the electrically conductive channels of ionized gas that occur during lightning. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning#Lightning_leaders

In a process not well understood, a bidirectional channel of ionized air, called a "leader", is initiated between oppositely-charged regions in a thundercloud.

 

I think the zap won't work if your target is in a car, wearing tinfoil or using some other kind of Faraday cage type thing.  I think you also need a high electrical potential between your weapon and target.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

 

[DDE]

8 hours ago, KG3 said:

I think DDE is asking about the electrically conductive channels of ionized gas that occur during lightning. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning#Lightning_leaders

In a process not well understood, a bidirectional channel of ionized air, called a "leader", is initiated between oppositely-charged regions in a thundercloud.

 

I think the zap won't work if your target is in a car, wearing tinfoil or using some other kind of Faraday cage type thing.  I think you also need a high electrical potential between your weapon and target.

An electrolaser creates that leader artificially and THEN deploys the zap, instead of a taser's wires. They have been attempted.

 

Oh, an one of the manufacturers tried to knock out cars with it, so rubber boots may not save our test subject @kerbiloid.

[Zeiss Ikon]

9 hours ago, PB666 said:

You guys are funny.

What is this incessant need some feel that they need to kill something in space.

Its quite easy, pressure . . . . .create opening to vacuum . . . . .no pressure.

"There's a pressurized vessel; I want to kill the occupants."  Draws pistol -- FN Five-Seven, high velocity, small caliber jacketed bullet.  Fires, punches through both sides of the pressure hull.

Waits.

Waits longer.

Notices the (tiny) leak has stopped blowing vapor.

"Dang, alarms and patches."  Pulls out shotgun loaded with high velocity tungsten shot.  "Let's see 'em patch this."

I was talking about shooting through a car body, actually.  The question was about lasers, with or without an electrical discharge along the (ionized) beam path.  BTW, the electrical discharge needs a full circuit, meaning the shooter gets the same zap as whatever he's shooting.  If the target is free flying, you can't zap it (no ground connection).

[PB666]

Make more holes, and the only car going to be in space is a convertable.

[DDE]

15 minutes ago, PB666 said:

Make more holes, and the only car going to be in space is a convertable.

[kerbiloid]

2 hours ago, Zeiss Ikon said:

Draws pistol -- FN Five-Seven, high velocity, small caliber jacketed bullet.  Fires, punches through both sides of the pressure hull.

So, that's why Bigelow company likes the multilayer inflatable (kevlar ?) habitats.
Bullet-proof walls for VIP clients.

[PB666]

7 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

So, that's why Bigelow company likes the multilayer inflatable (kevlar ?) habitats.
Bullet-proof walls for VIP clients.

Carpeters knife

 

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

21 minutes ago, PB666 said:

29 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

So, that's why Bigelow company likes the multilayer inflatable (kevlar ?) habitats.
Bullet-proof walls for VIP clients.

Carpeters knife

Tactical spaceman's EVA multitool.

Spoiler

With its help a spaceman spacecarl can:

• grab distant objects (cables, containers, struts) and pull or push them;
• stick to the trusses and rapidly move along the station;
• jump along the station using it as a pole;
• catch floating bags, floating spacemen, satellites, orbital scrap;
• berth the Dragon v1 capsule or other spacecrafts unable to dock;
• pierce any kind of hostile spacecraft hulls, including the multilayer inflatable ones;
• stabilize the reentry capsule with faulty RCS;
• untangle a chute;
• paddle to the sea shore (if splashed)
• cut the wood for the fire (if landed);
• fight off the bears (if landed)
• or sharks (if splashed);
• or vice versa — hunt them all;
• safely walk and jump on the Moon;
• stand up when falls there;
• get the lunar rover out of the pits;
• use it as a lunar flagpole;
• and a lightpole if hang a lamp on it;
• use it as a ceremonial weapon in case when he/she meets representatives of an extraterrestrial civilization;