KSS ENTERPRISE IS RUNNING OUT OF FUEL!!!

[A FAT KERBAL]

HELP

I am building a stock replica of the USS ENTERPRISE, I don't know how to show a picture of it.

My problem is that my engines are not powerful enough/ don't burn long enough. I want it to have fair twr (from 1.00 to 0.50) and a long burn time (from 1h to 30m)

I can't get this but I see giant stock sstos online and on youtube...

I only need it to burn for 1 hour and I can refuel at my station.

But it keeps running out of fuel. For instance I went to Duna once and I had enough fuel to go from low-kerbin-orbit (LKO) to intercept of duna but no closer.

I tried many engine configurations and many different fuel and thrust values but I always go the same distance

The fuel makes the engines last longer but makes the thrust less due to its weight. I need a solution to this problem and I can even give the craft file if you want.

No memes or unrelated content plz,

and no useless content either...

Thanks in advance - A FAT KERBAL

[0something0]

As for screenshotting, you can use print screen and put it on MSPaint then export it if your on Windows, or just use Steam Overlay if you have it on Steam. 

The thing about having both a decent twr and burn time is that you can't have both with modern technology which is reflected in KSP.  You need nervs or ions for high efficiency but they have crap twr and engines like vector or mainsail have good twr but not very good Isp and therefore efficiency and burn time.

Some advice would be: try using jet engines and put wings on it to save fuel during ascet. And probably put ISRU on it if you are going to land it. 

 

[Mako]

First, without photos specific suggestions might be hard to provide.

Second, I'm probably not the one to be able to offer specific suggestions as I don't have much experience building large vessels.

Third, and seeming to me the most important, here is the Wikipedia entry for Tsiolkovsky's Rocket Equation (the math behind your problem) and here is The Tyranny of the Rocket Equation (a thorough NASA write-up of what it sounds like you're encountering). Between these two links you might find answers to why you're experiencing what you're experiencing and some insight into just how much (or how little in some cases) can be done to solve your dilemma.

Fourth, good luck!

Edited January 3, 2018 by Mako

[Blaarkies]

1 hour ago, A FAT KERBAL said:

HELP

I want it to have fair twr (from 1.00 to 0.50) and a long burn time (from 1h to 30m)

No, you cannot have that. Not in stock KSP or in the reality of 2018.

A thrust-to-weight ratio of 0.5 - 1 means a having constant acceleration of (4.91m/s^2) to (9.81m/s^2)
That burn time is 3600 seconds long. 

By the end of that burn you would have gained (acceleration * time)m/s in speed, or 35316m/s DV. If you do not grasp how ridiculously big of a DV budget that is, I suggest to take it slow. learn orbital mechanics first by sending tiny capsule-size ships to other planets. From Kerbin orbit, you should be able to reach Duna low-orbit with less than 1700m/s DV.

To get the insane DV and TWR figure you are after, you will need to use the Infinite Fuel cheat, or look for some mods that provide this functionality

 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Blaarkies

[A FAT KERBAL]

I see...

So there is no possible way to do this?

Then how do some people on youtube make giant sstos that can go to different planets without refueling?

My spelling might be incorrect because ti is hard to type, (I was outside in 22 degree F weather and my hands are frozen)
I might be able to put a refueling probe in the "ShuttleBay" I am using a mk3 cargo ramp for the bay

Edited January 3, 2018 by A FAT KERBAL

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

1 hour ago, A FAT KERBAL said:

I see...

So there is no possible way to do this?

Then how do some people on youtube make giant sstos that can go to different planets without refueling?

My spelling might be incorrect because ti is hard to type, (I was outside in 22 degree F weather and my hands are frozen)
I might be able to put a refueling probe in the "ShuttleBay" I am using a mk3 cargo ramp for the bay

My guess would be that most of these SSTOs do not have a twr of 0.5 on the engines that they use for interplanetary travel. I imagine many use NERVAS or ions and have rather low acceleration during burns, at least towards the beginning. 

There are some completely chemical types, but they definitely wouldn't burn for an hour.

In general you will either have long burn time and low acceleration, or high acceleration and low burn time. Typically the first option will get you the best ∆v.

[suicidejunkie]

They accomplish the SSTA mission by being extremely efficient with their TWR and dV budget.

The place you're going to will put a lower limit your TWR, but that's the TWR well into the mission after burning off some fuel.

 

As to the dV budget, LKO is halfway to anywhere if you chart your course right, and it costs less than 3km/s to get to LKO.

An extra 1.5km/s burned at the bottom of Kerbin's gravity well can put you on course for most other planets, and then you spend the rest on arrival to land/capture safely.

Some go for gravity assists from other planets to squeeze out a bit more dV, and aerobraking is extremely useful.  (Have you seen the suit-only return from Gilly to Kerbin surface?  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDLBTvpzf_s) That's 600m/s total budget IIRC)

[A FAT KERBAL]

Hmm

I put a refueling probe inside the shuttlebay so now it can fly forever! (It just needs to orbit somewhere...)

The posts didn't help me with building the craft but it sure as hell will help me build many more interplanetary craft.

(BTW this is my first interplanetary craft)

Thanks! - A FAT KERBAL

 

 

 

Also how do I add images if I use ksp on steam? I have the file on my computer but it is asking for a link...

I want to show you and I will put it on KERBAL X so others can see it.

Edited January 3, 2018 by A FAT KERBAL
I wanted to ask how do I add images

[Rocket In My Pocket]

37 minutes ago, A FAT KERBAL said:

Also how do I add images if I use ksp on steam? I have the file on my computer but it is asking for a link...

I want to show you and I will put it on KERBAL X so others can see it.

Did you take the screenshot with the Steam SS key? Or the KSP one?

You can just upload the actual image at any image hosting site either way. Most people use Imgur.

If you took it through Steam, you can just upload it to Steam then copy the image link here.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Rocket In My Pocket

[Guest]

Welcome to the forums! Well, I did once build a stock KSS ENTERPRISE myself, and I did get it to orbit! Granted it was sort of a mashup between Enterprise NCC-1701 and Enterprise CV-6, so there's a flight deck and a bridge "island" instead of a saucer section:

Spoiler

...and also, yeah, I totally cheated. Hacked gravity AND used infinite fuel. The whole nine meters. Shameful, reall, and all for a few comic panels and a cheap Space Battleship Yamato joke.

But I'll come to my alleged point: Enterprise NCC-1701 is built with warp and impulse engines that defy the laws of physics as we presently know them. Stock KSP is specifically designed to use only the laws of physics as we presently know them. Therefore you shouldn't expect to be able to build a faithful replica of the Enterprise in this game AND make it fly without cheating.  

[Starman4308]

34 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

But I'll come to my alleged point: Enterprise NCC-1701 is built with warp and impulse engines that defy the laws of physics as we presently know them. Stock KSP is specifically designed to use only the laws of physics as we presently know them. Therefore you shouldn't expect to be able to build a faithful replica of the Enterprise in this game AND make it fly without cheating.  

To expand on this a bit:

The Enterprise's engines are badly off-center, inducing a torque that must be corrected for. In reality, this would mean a constant hard gimbal or a lot of attitude thrusters, though KSP's reaction wheels/magic torque machines would also work.

The Enterprise has fixed engines and fuel tankage. To combat the tyranny of the rocket equation, real space vehicles must stage off empty fuel tanks and now-overweight engines every so often to achieve high delta-V.

My guess is that the Enterprise accelerates incredibly fast compared to real space vehicles. While the launch vehicle must have TWR > 1 (or wings for lift), once you get to space, TWR goes way down because engine mass is just dead mass in the rocket equation. While players tend to be less patient than NASA, you'll still see vehicles that accelerate at less than 1 m/sec^2.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Starman4308 said:

The Enterprise's engines are badly off-center, inducing a torque that must be corrected for. In reality, this would mean a constant hard gimbal or a lot of attitude thrusters, though KSP's reaction wheels/magic torque machines would also work.

Indeed. You can see I had to put a very large centerline engine on KSS Enterrprise to balance the RAPIERS in the nacelles...and what you can't see is that most of the hull is filled with (egregiously part-clipped) large reaction wheels.

[Leafbaron]

I would recommend OPT Spaceplane parts. There are some futuristic engines in there and some that could realistically be possible in our own reality. The one I have in mind for your craft is the Dark matter drive with and ISP of 15,000 in atmospheric and vacuum conditions and also very large thrust. This engine is extremely unrealistic for our reality but the USS enterprise isn't from our reality (Timeline) is it?

The craft above is utilizing the dark matter drive engine.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Leafbaron

[A FAT KERBAL]

Ok I Finished Thanks Guys!

[Red Shirt]

My Enterprise had a TWR of 0.57 and abt 2700 dv. Mostly its purpose was to allow me to live out a childhood fantasy. If you need more TWR or dv maybe you can figure out how to incorporate one of the warp drive mods. I couldn't. The other option is to accept the Enterprise uses technology you don't have so using infinite fuel (F12) is as close to dilithium crystals as your likely to get. 

[A FAT KERBAL]

THE FINISHED PRODUCT:

A STOCK REPLICA STARSHIP

MASS: 360 TONS

PARTS: 316

DELTA V: 2,509

LF: 16,938(84,690kg)

Ox: 20,702(103,510kg)

EC: 25,910

(Impulse Engines Are Mainly For Display)

(If you don't like part clipping then I'm sorry... At least it's stock)
(I'm also afraid that the saucer and engines are out of scale slightly)

MAIN ENGINES

("Vector" KS-25) x2

TWR: 0.34(0.71)

BURN TIME: 4m 40.7s

DELTA V: 2,297/2,509

THRUST: 2,000.00kN

ISP: 315s

IMPULSE ENGINES

("DAWN" IX-6315) x26

TWR: 0.02(0.02)

BURN TIME: 13m 51.7s

DELTA V: 254/2,509

THRUST: 52.00kN

ISP: 4200s

IMAGES:

ENTERPRISE

ENGINES

NOT A LINK

SIDE VIEW

OPEN "SHUTTLEBAY" RAMP AND REFUELING PROBE

REFUELING PROBE

BEAUTY SHOT

 

[A FAT KERBAL]

Oh also about the refueling probe...

It can easily land on kerbin and refuel.

It can come back to the enterprise with fuel/ore to spare with some struggle.

Also do not fly the enterprise without the probe inside due to W&B (Weight and Balance)

I will post once I get KERBAL X file up

[A FAT KERBAL]

KERBAL X LINK

BY THE WAY YOU HAVE TO CHEAT TO LKO OR BUILD YOUR OWN LIFTER, PLEASE DO NOT DISCRIMINATE ON IT

I DID THIS PURPOSELY BECAUSE IN STAR TREK STARSHIPS DON'T COME IN LIFTERS THEY ARE ALREADY IN SPACE.

[0something0]

5 hours ago, A FAT KERBAL said:

I DID THIS PURPOSELY BECAUSE IN STAR TREK STARSHIPS DON'T COME IN LIFTERS THEY ARE ALREADY IN SPACE.

*Looks at JJ Abrahms*

[A FAT KERBAL]

33 minutes ago, 0something0 said:

4 hours ago, A FAT KERBAL said:

I DID THIS PURPOSELY BECAUSE IN STAR TREK STARSHIPS DON'T COME IN LIFTERS THEY ARE ALREADY IN SPACE.

*Looks at JJ Abrahms*

lol

[XLjedi]

Good saucer design!

I've been working on something similar...  although not an Enterprise replica.  I qualify mine as the OCV Class (Orbital Command Vessel).  It's role is to ferry other mission-specific class between the planets and maintain an orbital position while "away teams" visit the surface and then return to orbit.  Your refueling probe looks to be a similar design.

Thus far, the Kraken thinks they're delicious!

[Wildcat111]

On 1/3/2018 at 1:38 PM, Kuzzter said:

Granted it was sort of a mashup between Enterprise NCC-1701 and Enterprise CV-6

Yay CV-6!

[A FAT KERBAL]

I Just Built A New Type But I Realized that using cheats are best. I also created a small vtol replica shuttlecraft with a replica inside (which I Am more proud of)

 

[Snark]

On 1/2/2018 at 8:01 PM, A FAT KERBAL said:

I don't know how to show a picture of it.

Instructions in spoiler section.

Spoiler

1. Take a screenshot in-game by pressing F1.  This puts an image file in the "Screenshots" folder of your KSP install.
2. Post your image to some third-party site.
   • imgur.com tends to be the most popular, since it's so easy to use and doesn't require creating an account.
   • However, any site will work, as long as images there are publicly linkable. 
   • To post on imgur:  just click the new-post button, then drag-drop your image.
3. On the site where the image is hosted, right-click on the image and choose "copy image location".
   • Important, you want the URL of the image, not the page.
4. Then go into your forum post and just paste the URL there.
5. Presto!  It gets automagically converted into an in-line image.

 

[fourfa]

Looks pretty nice!