[WIP] Infernal Robotics - Next

[Rallyman03]

On 6/2/2018 at 4:58 PM, Rudolf Meier said:

Those who want to see what KJR does can download KerbalJointReinforcement_v3.4.1_p1_dbg_for_1.4.3.zip  I added this version to the latest release. It has a menu that allows to make all joints visible. The only problem is, that it cannot distinguish between the default KSP joints and the autostruts (that shouldn't be there and are only there because of the bug in KSP... sometimes). To make those visible you need to klick "apply" after the scene is loaded completely.

Hope this helps to sort out all the problems with KJR or at least to see them.

It's by the way also thought to be a utility for those who want to find out, why KSP is slowing down massively when using KJR. Maybe someone can see what happens whith a specific vessel and give some feedback on that.

 

Is KJR the reason my frame have been so crap lately? 

[goblinsrus4]

@Rudolf Meier any news on ir sequencer for 1.4.3 cos i get no gui for it the main robotics works well enough but i would like to make sequences  

also i have had a go at making parts for this but i can only have 1 static part and 1 moving part and i was hoping to make a low profile telescopic extender  using multiple moving meshes is it possible ? 

 

[Rudolf Meier]

I'm still cleaning up code... and I still run into problems because of wrong usage of some events... some came from me, some came from code I copied... sometimes everything is locked, sometimes weak...

[Boersgard]

Tested the latest beta release, there seems to be some kind of problem with the 90 degree hinged joint, as when I attach it to my craft and then timewarp it causes some weird blackscreen and blows up the ship - and then crashes the game if I try to go back to launch/spacecenter/VAB.

The problem occurs inconsistently - sometimes I can timewarp on the ground and no problem, sometimes I can timewarp under acceleration at liftoff and no problem, but eventually the problem will occur during timewarp, either with no acceleration, or under acceleration, and usually before I exit atmosphere.

Removing the hinged joint from my craft stopped this from happening. (To add: The hinged joint was placed on top of an IR Rotatron)

Edited June 10, 2018 by Boersgard

[Rudolf Meier]

15 hours ago, Boersgard said:

Tested the latest beta release, there seems to be some kind of problem with the 90 degree hinged joint, as when I attach it to my craft and then timewarp it causes some weird blackscreen and blows up the ship - and then crashes the game if I try to go back to launch/spacecenter/VAB.

The problem occurs inconsistently - sometimes I can timewarp on the ground and no problem, sometimes I can timewarp under acceleration at liftoff and no problem, but eventually the problem will occur during timewarp, either with no acceleration, or under acceleration, and usually before I exit atmosphere.

Removing the hinged joint from my craft stopped this from happening. (To add: The hinged joint was placed on top of an IR Rotatron)

I know, that's the "Nan Problem"

Edited June 11, 2018 by Rudolf Meier

[wbrouwer]

I have a problem where the parts work in the editor, but during flight they're not willing to budge, I've tested this on multiple vessels, all the same result.  When I attempt to force movement just by holding the action button down it eventually explodes.  I've test it with KJR on, and off.  Along with AutoStrut on, and off.  Same result. :(  

Got the latest files, re-installed the mod twice now, no luck.

Thanks.

[Leopardmadcat]

On 6/12/2018 at 3:06 PM, wbrouwer said:

I have a problem where the parts work in the editor, but during flight they're not willing to budge, I've tested this on multiple vessels, all the same result.  When I attempt to force movement just by holding the action button down it eventually explodes.  I've test it with KJR on, and off.  Along with AutoStrut on, and off.  Same result.  

Got the latest files, re-installed the mod twice now, no luck.

Thanks.

If you are using KerbalJointReinforcement (comes included with KSPIe) it will display the exact behavior you have described; simply remove that mod and all will be well again (except for your rockets falling apart mid-flight again...).

Cheers!

 

[gomker]

@Rudolf Meier Good to see someone picking this mod up again. I wanted to suggest turning on Git issues to track bug reports, sometimes things get lost in the threads.

I wanted to report that I am seeing an issue with "Engage Limits" I can only set the value on the right hand side button then the limit gets "stuck" at 0 for an inverted Rotatron Basic



 

//

On another note, I see others still referencing KJR issues -  I had worked with ferram in this issue to use the ignore list to get around those problems
https://github.com/ferram4/Kerbal-Joint-Reinforcement/issues/14

Edited June 17, 2018 by gomker

[Rallyman03]

Any chance the robotic surface sample arm will be making a come back? Or could I use the one from the old IR branch?

 

[Elon Kerman Jr]

@Rudolf Meier How do  use the mod because when I look up tuturouls for the old one they don't have the same gui and stuff like when I go in vab or hanger and press the little gui button to set the different parts it wont work do I need those other mods you linked

[Mekan1k]

So... I made a pivot-wing test plane, and it works great (somewhat) if I don't have KJR, but with it, the plane WILL explode and get snagged by the kraken if I try to activate the joints. Pictures Here:

https://imgur.com/5M7z5eY 

https://imgur.com/ebuhc4L

Any solutions, suggestions, or is this a known problem that I, as a scrub, have not noticed being a problem yet. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Mekan1k

[kcs123]

1 hour ago, Mekan1k said:

Any solutions, suggestions, or is this a known problem that I, as a scrub, have not noticed being a problem yet. 

Known problem (sort of). Rudolf said that cleaning code on both, IR and KJR plugin is work in progress. Latest KJR have ability to show autostruts to easier see and figure out where issue is. Try to create craft with stock parts if possible or at least minimum number of other mods used and upload it somewhere. That can help in test phase to reproduce issue and find issue sooner.

And be patient to give developer some time until everything is ironed out.

[fitemesquirrel]

Hello,

 

First off, love the mod. I'm using the latest beta download. I'm seeing a bug with the "Hinge Pivotron - Basic" part in that when it's extended to 360 (max) it locks up, and any attempt to activate it causes a big ol' physics explosion. Are there any logs or anything that you need to debug this?

 

EDIT: IGNORE

 

I deleted that part and put a new one in to test the actual point that it locks up, and realized that it's max rotation is 180 rather than 360. I'm not sure how but I must have somehow configured it wrong to get up to 360...somehow. The fresh part seems to be working fine.

Edited June 22, 2018 by fitemesquirrel

[IMrChrisI]

HI. My new project. Four-speed planetary automatic gearbox. Controled by SmartParts, Generaly gearbox is working nice. Main problem is that planetary satelites are sliping on sun and no just rotating like it should be. Some mechanical gears will be nice thing :D.

Planetary gears.

And clutches. Friction between flat parts wasnt enough so i had to make RCS to block plates. Gears are activated by pistons than locking correct plate. 

 

[The Minmus Derp]

44 minutes ago, IMrChrisI said:

HI. My new project. Four-speed planetary automatic gearbox. Controled by SmartParts, Generaly gearbox is working nice. Main problem is that planetary satelites are sliping on sun and no just rotating like it should be. Some mechanical gears will be nice thing :D.

Planetary gears.

And clutches. Friction between flat parts wasnt enough so i had to make RCS to block plates. Gears are activated by pistons than locking correct plate. 

 

Ermagerd that’s complicated. Er Wernt Ert.

[fitemesquirrel]

So, I understand most of this mod is being re-written, is there any plan to restore compatibility with kOS? I asked in the thread for that project, and was told to bring up the issue over here. 

 

[Xd the great]

well I have been testing with kjr with no problem.

Are there dependencies that you have not yet in stalled?

[Tirehtoori R.I.P]

still needing a chalenger here quys xD 

 

[Rudolf Meier]

I know, the mod has some problems. In fact, it's almost unusable at the moment. My problem is, that I don't have the time to fix it at the moment. In march we found some design problems in the software our company wanted to release and since then we are working on re-designing parts of it. Highly complex stuff and... in the evening I don't have the power to deal with the problems of the mod. But I will fix it for sure... I still hope that we can fix our problems within the next some weeks. But at the moment the process works like this -> we find a problem, discuss it for 1 week, solve it and then... we think fine, everything solved now, but ... then we find the next problem

... no idea when it's going to end. But I will fix all the mod problems when I'm done with this projecect.

[kcs123]

I can only give you advice to take your own pace and work on mod when you can also enjoy working on it. It will provide even more frustration otherwise. And... I feel your pain, similar happening on my regular job wit exception that issues arises on daily basis and I don't have co-worker to share burden of development.

I'm looking on bright side of this, though. I hope that I will be able to get some free time for playing/testing as well by the time known issues are ironed out.

[whitespacekilla]

@Rudolf Meier I wanted to thank you for taking this project on, first and foremost. I really want to use IR for mostly practical issues (extending a pair of folding stabilizers after a landing for high-speed roving in lower gravity without flipping, for example). As you're fully aware, even with updated KJR, there are still some krakens that emerge when using IRNext.

I was a professional C# developer for part of my career so I've updated a lot of outdated mods, improved performance, and fixed some compatibility issues between mods over the last few months for my own use. I'd like to solve my issues using IRNext and it sounds like that would help continue the work you've had to pause on.

In reading this forum post, it seems like they are some issues you are aware of and you even know what areas of code harbor them. I can't find anything in the github repo issues or the code comments more specific to get to helping though so I was hoping you could fill in some gaps.

First, what are the specific known issues you are trying to isolate and solve?

Second, beyond known issues, what suspicious issues have you heard of or encountered?

Third, what is your troubleshooting methodology? Show autostruts and KJR joints, obviously, but what additional diagnostic tools help you track down the problem (physics db dump, for example).

Fourth, what design issues of the underlying code are contributing to the bugs and issues you and other users are continuing to encounter?

Finally, what ways can I contribute documentation to the readme and the code to make it easier for you and others to contribute in the future?

If it makes sense, we can find a fast way to communicate, too.

[SparkyFox]

I'm using this for 1.4.4 and everything pretty much works fine, but there is a lot of bugs present
1. time warping causes NaN
2. the servos?(hinges, pistons, rotors, ect) seem to get stuck or cant complete their movement and tear the craft apart
3. some parts get stuck and cant be moved anymore through action groups and need to be moved with the toolbar
4. on a body, parts don't work properly due to gravity(on kerbin, in older version, I was able to move my ion engines into place, but on 1.4.4 on kerbin, the hinge and rotor isn't able to move the engine properly and needs to be in orbit)
Here is my log and crash report
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sl2b94xcliht6pi/AADNBO8fz5an6R_3Rhe_8K3ua?dl=0

also, I've got a question, why was all the parts renamed with .v3 at the end?
for example, IR.Rotatron.Basic became IR.Rotatron.Basic.v3
just curious

 

From the looks of things, this new collision thing you're trying to add...its the very thing that's causing all the problems, would it be easier to compile the original version(so its something stable for people to play for now) then work on the new stuff and have like beta testers, ect? (again, just a suggestion, because everything else works fine)
I know there's a button to turn the collision on and off, but with this collision off, there's still something getting in the way and stopping the parts from working properly and tearing the crafts apart, and with collision on, well.. nothing seems to work and parts get jammed on themselves and your save game becomes a sacrifice for the kraken   

Edited July 3, 2018 by SparkyFox

[Rudolf Meier]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 7:24 PM, whitespacekilla said:

@Rudolf Meier I wanted to thank you for taking this project on, first and foremost. I really want to use IR for mostly practical issues (extending a pair of folding stabilizers after a landing for high-speed roving in lower gravity without flipping, for example). As you're fully aware, even with updated KJR, there are still some krakens that emerge when using IRNext.

I was a professional C# developer for part of my career so I've updated a lot of outdated mods, improved performance, and fixed some compatibility issues between mods over the last few months for my own use. I'd like to solve my issues using IRNext and it sounds like that would help continue the work you've had to pause on.

In reading this forum post, it seems like they are some issues you are aware of and you even know what areas of code harbor them. I can't find anything in the github repo issues or the code comments more specific to get to helping though so I was hoping you could fill in some gaps.

First, what are the specific known issues you are trying to isolate and solve?

Second, beyond known issues, what suspicious issues have you heard of or encountered?

Third, what is your troubleshooting methodology? Show autostruts and KJR joints, obviously, but what additional diagnostic tools help you track down the problem (physics db dump, for example).

Fourth, what design issues of the underlying code are contributing to the bugs and issues you and other users are continuing to encounter?

Finally, what ways can I contribute documentation to the readme and the code to make it easier for you and others to contribute in the future?

If it makes sense, we can find a fast way to communicate, too.

Thanks for the offer. I don't know if it is that easy in this case to get into the project. This has to do with the facts that in a way it's a constant working around limmitations and problems of the game and its engine. And it took quite some time for me to figure out how those things work together. I often have those "ah, right, that's impossible because of that and this causes that error and doing it the other way round would run into the bug I found here...". This constant trial to avoid those problems and the constant modifications of the code is the reason why until now there is no documentation. That's something I think I can start now in the cleanup process when the system is more stable.

The main problems currently are that I do have minor problems due to experimental code. I need to remove it, but some parts got messed up because of that... not good. I should have made more checkins. And then after that I'm working on the problem why some values end with NaN values after a while.

All other problems I think are not really big issues I think. Sometimes a servo stops working and you need to reload the scene or things like that, that's stuff that shouldn't be hard to fix. But when the universe is destroyed in the game... that's something that ruins your day.

... about the KJR joint debugging. I've done this for 2 reasons. First: we had the question "why is everything locked up?" and the second was "why is everything that slow?" ... the idea was to answer both with those lines. Now you can see if KJR is locking the joints by building additional joints accross the movable joints and you can see if there are too many joints in your ship what could overload the computer.

So far I don't see any bugs here. The only one I know of is the landing leg and auto-strut bug of KSP. But here we cannot do anything. You have to build your ships in a way that this doesn't happen.

The debugging for the NaN problem is simple... xtreme-logging... I'm generating gigabytes of logs while the game is running and then I will try to find out when, why and how it started that those values moved towards NaN values. It's not the question of "if" I can find those bugs, but just "when" ...

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 10:41 PM, SparkyFox said:

I'm using this for 1.4.4 and everything pretty much works fine, but there is a lot of bugs present
1. time warping causes NaN
2. the servos?(hinges, pistons, rotors, ect) seem to get stuck or cant complete their movement and tear the craft apart
3. some parts get stuck and cant be moved anymore through action groups and need to be moved with the toolbar
4. on a body, parts don't work properly due to gravity(on kerbin, in older version, I was able to move my ion engines into place, but on 1.4.4 on kerbin, the hinge and rotor isn't able to move the engine properly and needs to be in orbit)
Here is my log and crash report
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sl2b94xcliht6pi/AADNBO8fz5an6R_3Rhe_8K3ua?dl=0

also, I've got a question, why was all the parts renamed with .v3 at the end?
for example, IR.Rotatron.Basic became IR.Rotatron.Basic.v3
just curious

 

From the looks of things, this new collision thing you're trying to add...its the very thing that's causing all the problems, would it be easier to compile the original version(so its something stable for people to play for now) then work on the new stuff and have like beta testers, ect? (again, just a suggestion, because everything else works fine)
I know there's a button to turn the collision on and off, but with this collision off, there's still something getting in the way and stopping the parts from working properly and tearing the crafts apart, and with collision on, well.. nothing seems to work and parts get jammed on themselves and your save game becomes a sacrifice for the kraken   

There are too many bugs in the current release... I know. But it's not because of the collision stuff. This code does nothing if you don't activate it explicitly for a part. The problems you report, that's because of something I messed up in the last release... I'm trying to build a stable version now.

Why I renamed it to .v3. Thats because they are so different, that you can never convert a ship with version 2 parts to version 3 parts. And with those renaming, you can use both in the game at the same time. You can then keep your old ships and still use the new parts for new ships.

[reducing]

I've search all over and can't find the answer. Is there any version of the sequencer working on 1.4.3? Thanks!

[kcs123]

5 minutes ago, reducing said:

I've search all over and can't find the answer. Is there any version of the sequencer working on 1.4.3? Thanks!

I can't recall current state of sequencer, but older version seems to work fine:

Don't know if there is version that works with IR-next, though. Have to be patient until known issues are ironed out and then going to other things on "to do" list.