[WIP] Infernal Robotics - Next

[Critter79606]

14 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

there will also be an inverse kinematics module for those arms... and (that's already included) those arms can now activate the collisions so that you cannot move through your ships with the arm and whatever you transport with your arms

I saw that.  Didn't know what it did, but it's nice to have.  Tried it and it worked like a champ.  I hated the way you could move the arm through a structure w/ the magnet attached to the end, getting ready to undock something to capture it.  Speaking of the magnet.  Really missing the magnet with the built in light.  Any chance on getting it back in the parts?  Also it looks like the advanced tweakables decrease the wobbly-ness if you set it to rigid, and set the auto strut to grandparent on parts that don't have a hinge (girders etc).  My arm bounced about 1/2 as much with being dropped on the runway before takeoff. (got to love having your wheels start several feet above the runway at launch)

[Rudolf Meier]

7 hours ago, Critter79606 said:

Really missing the magnet with the built in light.  Any chance on getting it back in the parts?

Those don't use IR code (only KAS and things like that). You can copy them from the old IR. What I will build is some sort of PDGF + Grappler that works like a docking port... somehow. I don't like those magnets, because often you lose the parts e.g. after a scene change. We need something the game understands... like "this is connected and stays connected ... so don't touch, delete, destroy or whatever you normally do... stupid game! ... and don't look at me like that!" 

[The-Doctor]

14 hours ago, yorshee said:

When I initially landed a piece of my base (the right-hand side) and attached it to the main part (the left-hand side), those two docking ports you see at a 90 degree angle to each other connected with a hinge were actually facing one another, so if the hinge wasn't there they'd be ready to dock and so the part that's now clipping through the base was flush along the rest of the section on the left. (if this isn't making any sense I'll draw some outlines around everything to explain what's happening)

I loaded a quicksave and suddenly it's like it is in the screenshot - rotated so it's clipping through itself and no matter how I swivel the hinge, it can't get back to how it was. I think something messed up with the attachment nodes because it you look carefully, the base of the hinge is attached upside down now - you can see it pointing down-left instead of up-right.

Is this a known issue? Is there a way I can tweak the save file to fix the rotation of the hinge?

There's nothing wrong in the debug log btw, nothing is out of the ordinary, it's just like something happened to the part's rotation in the save file itself.

those rover wheels, they stock?

[Sebas-chan]

So... Did you fix the kraken yet?

[gandt2]

Hi guys,

My first ever post

I am sure this will be a really obvious fix.  I am new to ksp and IR.  I am having what I think is a problem others have had in the past related to landing gear and autostrut making IR work fine in the hanger but not at all outside the VAB.  Can someone help a gal out and please explain to me how I fix this.  Oh I am using 1.4.2

Kimberly

Edited April 28, 2018 by gandt2

[Critter79606]

1 hour ago, Rudolf Meier said:

Those don't use IR code (only KAS and things like that). You can copy them from the old IR. What I will build is some sort of PDGF + Grappler that works like a docking port... somehow. I don't like those magnets, because often you lose the parts e.g. after a scene change. We need something the game understands... like "this is connected and stays connected ... so don't touch, delete, destroy or whatever you normally do... stupid game! ... and don't look at me like that!" 

I'll see if I can dig it out of one of my old archived ksp installs.

Just throwing some ideas out here...

If you were ever a babylon 5 fan, maybe you could create something like one of the fighter's grappler/ball attachments.  Make it to where it has a magnet mode and a grapple mode.  If in grapple mode, it must connect to the ball where you get the vessel dock and allows resource transfers but using KIS attachment so it doesn't have to be aligned.  I had a mod that allowed a part to be attached via KIS w/o a kerbal, so I know it can be done.  In magnet mode it can grab anywhere but at a lower strength like any other magnet.

It could look like a mini version of the old IR landing legs but with 3 arms.    In magnet mode, the legs stay flat (docking disabled).  In grapple mode, they clamp onto the ball (animated).  Also, have a variable amount of electric you can send to it to increase the magnet strength like a real electro-magnet. (20-500 strength)

I personally like the magnets for the fact that you can't have a circular attachments in ksp.  For off loading in the pics the below, I'd set my arm to just above the part I'm about to undock (I love that the magnet didn't go through the module), then undock the module.  After it has moved a bit away from the docking port, I capture it with the magnet and move it away.  I created a clone of the KAS one with stronger attachments then resized it to fit the end of one of the IR parts and added lights for an aiming aid. 

I did have one issue with the new collision.  When I came out of warp(x4 to 70k) trying to de-orbit, the arm shook, collided, exploded, and sent the ship into a spin that got faster and faster (G-force was pegged, puke and blood on the windshield... burned up on reentry).  Generally a bad day for Jeb and crew.  Is there any way that a third option could be added to where the collisions were only active if the IR control window was open?  That would eliminate the issue with the KSP bouncy attachments in tight confines for a stowed in bay arm exiting time warp or Kracken attacks.  I hate Space Krackens.

Stowed grappler arm

No issues with launch

Deploying the component

Getting ready to come home

Then it all went wrong... Not showing images out of respect to Jeb and Crews families.

 

[Critter79606]

2 hours ago, gandt2 said:

Hi guys,

My first ever post

I am sure this will be a really obvious fix.  I am new to ksp and IR.  I am having what I think is a problem others have had in the past related to landing gear and autostrut making IR work fine in the hanger but not at all outside the VAB.  Can someone help a gal out and please explain to me how I fix this.  Oh I am using 1.4.2

Kimberly

@gandt2 Can you post a screen shot of the issue you are having showing a closeup of the IR parts?

[Rudolf Meier]

5 hours ago, Sebas-chan said:

So... Did you fix the kraken yet?

the one you had... yes, it's KJR related, but patch 1 of it solves that

the one with the down scaled joints...nope... I'm working on that one

[Rudolf Meier]

32 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

the one with the down scaled joints...nope... I'm working on that one

ok... I have found that one... it's only happening in 1.4 versions and... I'm not sure yet why... it has to do with the new way you can reinforce joints in 1.4... something doesn't work as it should when we apply scaling...

5 hours ago, Critter79606 said:

Then it all went wrong... Not showing images out of respect to Jeb and Crews families.

One of the big problems in KSP is, that joints get weak, as soon as you enter physics warp... that doesn't make sense. Currently I don't know if we can fix that... maybe. If that was the reason for shaking then... well... I'd have to make tests.

The other thing... I'm not sure... but, it could be related to what I'm doing now. Did you have scaled down joints in your ship?

[Rudolf Meier]

20 hours ago, yorshee said:

When I initially landed a piece of my base (the right-hand side) and attached it to the main part (the left-hand side), those two docking ports you see at a 90 degree angle to each other connected with a hinge were actually facing one another, so if the hinge wasn't there they'd be ready to dock and so the part that's now clipping through the base was flush along the rest of the section on the left. (if this isn't making any sense I'll draw some outlines around everything to explain what's happening)

I loaded a quicksave and suddenly it's like it is in the screenshot - rotated so it's clipping through itself and no matter how I swivel the hinge, it can't get back to how it was. I think something messed up with the attachment nodes because it you look carefully, the base of the hinge is attached upside down now - you can see it pointing down-left instead of up-right.

Is this a known issue? Is there a way I can tweak the save file to fix the rotation of the hinge?

There's nothing wrong in the debug log btw, nothing is out of the ordinary, it's just like something happened to the part's rotation in the save file itself.

I cannot see that very good... but it should not happen. Maybe you should try it with other parts. Could be that the hinge is damaged or that all joints are. But it should load as it was, not that way.

5 hours ago, gandt2 said:

Hi guys,

My first ever post

I am sure this will be a really obvious fix.  I am new to ksp and IR.  I am having what I think is a problem others have had in the past related to landing gear and autostrut making IR work fine in the hanger but not at all outside the VAB.  Can someone help a gal out and please explain to me how I fix this.  Oh I am using 1.4.2

Kimberly

hi

There is a bug in KSP. If you have a ship with an IR part. When you now have have landing legs on one side of this part and the heaviest part of your ship is on the other side of the IR part. Then KSP creates an autostrut that blocks all. And you cannot do anything. I sent them the bug report weeks ago. No reaction so far...

Maybe someone should write a mod to solve this...

Rudolf

[kcs123]

Use KSP foundary wheels. And landing legs from USI MKS. Those do not do autostruting, so you will not have issues with combining them with IR parts.

[Critter79606]

You can also try to use the manual auto struct settings(enable advanced tweakables in the games settings menu).  This sets the auto strut default to off for each part, and gives you the options of Off, heaviest part, grandparent part in the vab/sph.  I know that IR works with grandparent part and off, as I use them.

[Sebas-chan]

9 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

the one you had... yes, it's KJR related, but patch 1 of it solves that

the one with the down scaled joints...nope... I'm working on that one

...It still crashes with KJR patch 1

[gandt2]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the advice, but it just doesn't love me I am afraid lol.  I have advanced tweakables on and struts are still locked which of course means I can only get IR to work in the VAB or SPH.  I am starting to think though that something else I am using might be causing additional issues as when I tried the IR rotatron it either doesn't work at all, or the entire craft begins to spin out of control.  Also if I make a craft without landing legs just a pod and an engine, put a hinge on it and use it, voila I get sent into the middle of the sun or kerbin or somewhere with an altitude of 00000m and everything is locked up.  I do run a heavily modded version of ksp... so I am sure the problem will be at my end and not a problem with the mod   I will keep plugging away and see what I can work out lol.  Thanks again boys

 

Kim

[Rudolf Meier]

3 hours ago, gandt2 said:

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the advice, but it just doesn't love me I am afraid lol.  I have advanced tweakables on and struts are still locked which of course means I can only get IR to work in the VAB or SPH.  I am starting to think though that something else I am using might be causing additional issues as when I tried the IR rotatron it either doesn't work at all, or the entire craft begins to spin out of control.  Also if I make a craft without landing legs just a pod and an engine, put a hinge on it and use it, voila I get sent into the middle of the sun or kerbin or somewhere with an altitude of 00000m and everything is locked up.  I do run a heavily modded version of ksp... so I am sure the problem will be at my end and not a problem with the mod   I will keep plugging away and see what I can work out lol.  Thanks again boys

 

Kim

What you describe is... a) the spinning, could be because of KJR (use the lastest I've built) and b) altitude 0000m and breaking everything, that's because of an unsolved bug when you scale down IR parts

I'm working on that bug... I currently don't understand why it happens. I can reproduce it, but I don't see why the values I'm using are causing such a behaviour in Unity... it must be something that is done behind the scene... at least, it seems that the solver is delivering completely wrong solutions... it doesn't make sense at all at the moment. I could turn this off, but this would make the joints weaker again and I don't want this...

[Critter79606]

16 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

The other thing... I'm not sure... but, it could be related to what I'm doing now. Did you have scaled down joints in your ship?

No scaled joints, just scaled stacking extenders.

I confirmed my explosion was due to coming out of warp.  I had turned off collisions, and saw the arm pop through the bay doors coming out of warp on the next deorbit.

Another thing I noticed yesterday putting an Inner Marker at the end of the runway so I could have a glide slope indicator was that I built this

and getting it out there I had no issues but when I deployed it

It started spinning around in circles, even with a ground tether attached. I bet it would have made a revolution a minute.

I removed the joints and had no more spinning.  I can understand the joints exerting momentum while being deployed, but not when it has stopped moving.

 

[gandt2]

50 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

What you describe is... a) the spinning, could be because of KJR (use the lastest I've built) and b) altitude 0000m and breaking everything, that's because of an unsolved bug when you scale down IR parts

I'm working on that bug... I currently don't understand why it happens. I can reproduce it, but I don't see why the values I'm using are causing such a behaviour in Unity... it must be something that is done behind the scene... at least, it seems that the solver is delivering completely wrong solutions... it doesn't make sense at all at the moment. I could turn this off, but this would make the joints weaker again and I don't want this...

Well even if I cannot get it to work I really do appreciate all the work you and the other modders do.  You guys are awesome  xxxxx

I definitely had scaled down IR parts so that explains that one. If I could only figure out why I can’t turn off the autostruts I am sure it would work.  I must have another mod that is over riding it somehow.  I think it might just be a good old process of elimination.

Kim

Edited April 29, 2018 by gandt2
Additional information added :)

[Rudolf Meier]

1 hour ago, Critter79606 said:

I confirmed my explosion was due to coming out of warp.  I had turned off collisions, and saw the arm pop through the bay doors coming out of warp on the next deorbit.

I removed the joints and had no more spinning.  I can understand the joints exerting momentum while being deployed, but not when it has stopped moving.

yeah... that's... you know... somehow I'm starting to lose interest in this project... all I do is trying to find out how to work around several bugs and stupidities inside all those crappy softwares... that's just insane and it's what I do also in my day job. ... sometimes I think there are more bugs and stupid functions inside todays software than there are lines of code.

And most of the time the "solution" is to say "not reproducible" -> "case closed" ... ...

[Critter79606]

1 hour ago, Rudolf Meier said:

yeah... that's... you know... somehow I'm starting to lose interest in this project... all I do is trying to find out how to work around several bugs and stupidities inside all those crappy softwares... that's just insane and it's what I do also in my day job. ... sometimes I think there are more bugs and stupid functions inside todays software than there are lines of code.

And most of the time the "solution" is to say "not reproducible" -> "case closed" ... ...

I totally understand.  Last thing I want to do when I get home is write more code.  Please don't think I'm complaining, I was just trying to build some of my prior things from 1.2.x and report any issues I found.  Like I had said before, I had given up on the 1.3.x version, as things were always blowing up, shifting, and generally breaking.  I was really excited when I found out someone was actually working on it again and trying to fix the bugs. 

Oh, and I found that part I was talking about earlier... it was the IR Strut Grappler and Target. 

[Getsome2030]

1 hour ago, Rudolf Meier said:

yeah... that's... you know... somehow I'm starting to lose interest in this project... all I do is trying to find out how to work around several bugs and stupidities inside all those crappy softwares... that's just insane and it's what I do also in my day job. ... sometimes I think there are more bugs and stupid functions inside todays software than there are lines of code.

And most of the time the "solution" is to say "not reproducible" -> "case closed" ... ...

Would it help if you were to place a statement on the front page of this thread saying something like: 'AUTO STRUT and KJR are not supported by [WIP] Infernal Robotics'. Then just concentrate on making the mod that envision without trying to make other Mods happy. I don't use KJR and I only use Auto strut manually on parts either side of the IR parts without many issues. Yes! I still experience in game physics issues coming out of warp when using craft without IR parts, just reload the game and do it again...  

Cheers 

[peteletroll]

On 4/29/2018 at 8:26 PM, Getsome2030 said:

'AUTO STRUT and KJR are not supported by [WIP] Infernal Robotics'

I can probably help with autostruts. See DockRotate code, releaseCrossAutoStruts() method.

Edited May 2, 2018 by peteletroll

[Rudolf Meier]

29 minutes ago, Getsome2030 said:

Would it help if you were to place a statement on the front page of this thread saying something like: 'AUTO STRUT and KJR are not supported by [WIP] Infernal Robotics'. Then just concentrate on making the mod that envision without trying to make other Mods happy. I don't use KJR and I only use Auto strut manually on parts either side of the IR parts without many issues. Yes! I still experience in game physics issues coming out of warp when using craft without IR parts, just reload the game and do it again...  

no, that's not the problem... if you don't use landing legs in an unlucky configuration, then you don't run into this bug and the rest works... KJR (at least my version alltough I haven't done the performance improvement I wanted to try) and AutoStruts work also.

The problem here is that the massScale parameter for joints in Unity doesn't work... it freaks out when... something is, happens or is not... that's the question here...

[Rudolf Meier]

it's pure guessing if this "solution" solves the problem... my first idea was to balance the scaling between massScale and connectedMassScale... this worked, but I still added a little restriction so that if the factors are getting to big, I now restrict it a little bit...

you can try if that helps... I've made a new release

[Critter79606]

24 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

it's pure guessing if this "solution" solves the problem... my first idea was to balance the scaling between massScale and connectedMassScale... this worked, but I still added a little restriction so that if the factors are getting to big, I now restrict it a little bit...

you can try if that helps... I've made a new release

I'll load it up right now.  Anything in particular I should be looking for?

[Rudolf Meier]

55 minutes ago, Critter79606 said:

I'll load it up right now.  Anything in particular I should be looking for?

thanks... those bugs we saw in the last two weeks... scaling down things, stability (because it's changed now)... uncontrolled rotation after undocking a part... I don't know other problems... maybe you can reproduce one of those strange things that were reported? ... docking node problem with the hinge... I cannot build an example that does this