[WIP] Infernal Robotics - Next

[Rudolf Meier]

10 hours ago, madindehead said:

I have insane frame drop when moving parts with the IR Editor Window. I found a little satellite with IR parts and just testing it in the VAB I see a frame drop from 130 FPS to around 6-20 FPS when moving the parts.

Something else I wanted to ask: Are there any good videos of people building stuff with IR or any good craft files using IR parts? I can't find a lot out there and it's the one addon I have the least experience with. All the robotics stuff really. 

Well... I have not made measuerments, but it may be normal in ksp... but, I'm just guessing now

[VR_Dev]

On 7/29/2019 at 1:32 AM, madindehead said:

I have insane frame drop when moving parts with the IR Editor Window. I found a little satellite with IR parts and just testing it in the VAB I see a frame drop from 130 FPS to around 6-20 FPS when moving the parts.

Something else I wanted to ask: Are there any good videos of people building stuff with IR or any good craft files using IR parts? I can't find a lot out there and it's the one addon I have the least experience with. All the robotics stuff really. 

 Any chance to shamelessly show my hexipod... I've been back at it for a while but havent posted any updates. Have it working with Next in 1.6

 

Side note, @Rudolf Meier, I know a lot of the situations are different, but most of these fps issues sound identical to mine.

[V8jester]

On 7/29/2019 at 12:32 AM, madindehead said:

I have insane frame drop when moving parts with the IR Editor Window. I found a little satellite with IR parts and just testing it in the VAB I see a frame drop from 130 FPS to around 6-20 FPS when moving the parts.

Something else I wanted to ask: Are there any good videos of people building stuff with IR or any good craft files using IR parts? I can't find a lot out there and it's the one addon I have the least experience with. All the robotics stuff really. 

As requested - Another shameless plug

 

[Rudolf Meier]

11 hours ago, VR_Dev said:

Side note, @Rudolf Meier, I know a lot of the situations are different, but most of these fps issues sound identical to mine.

And, identical means? That you see a problem with IR or that KSP reacts like this when you (a module you wrote) do (does) something?

[steve_v]

So one upon a time in a galaxy far, far away I tried Infernal Robotics, and I found it to be infernal indeed - my craft embarked upon long flights it would smite with irreversible disfigurements of joints betwixt parts affixed to robotic parts, and folding aircraft bound for Duna became disappointment incarnate when at last they arrive at that ochre world.
So I ask now, as I did then: What's the Story, Morning Glory @Rudolf Meier? Does IR yet summon exotic species of deep-sea kraken and form my wings like unto the walls of a ziggurat? Please, tell me this is not so?

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, steve_v said:

So one upon a time in a galaxy far, far away I tried Infernal Robotics, and I found it to be infernal indeed

In early days (KSP 0.16) there was Damned Robotics.
Later (on KSP 0.21) Robotics got Infernal.

And yes, it was laying on CurseForge.

Edited July 31, 2019 by kerbiloid

[Rudolf Meier]

2 hours ago, steve_v said:

So one upon a time in a galaxy far, far away I tried Infernal Robotics, and I found it to be infernal indeed - my craft embarked upon long flights it would smite with irreversible disfigurements of joints betwixt parts affixed to robotic parts, and folding aircraft bound for Duna became disappointment incarnate when at last they arrive at that ochre world.
So I ask now, as I did then: What's the Story, Morning Glory @Rudolf Meier? Does IR yet summon exotic species of deep-sea kraken and form my wings like unto the walls of a ziggurat? Please, tell me this is not so?

When I first started with Infernal Robotics, it was at version 2. I wanted to build a space station with it and the arms never worked. That's why I started investigating it and in the end started the project "Infernal Robitics Next". I had nothing to do with the old version of Infernal Robotics. Now, with the first release it is stable and usable.

Sure, we found some minor bugs and mainly du to the dlc robotics we started to add features and improvements. Those should be ready soon with the next release. But I don't think that you have to wait for it, if you don't want to do things that need those new features.

That's the story... currently I'm working on KJR Next and Infernal Robotics Next bugfixes, improvements and new versions and I expect to see them ready later in august.

[steve_v]

10 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

That's why I started investigating it and in the end started the project "Infernal Robitics Next". I had nothing to do with the old version of Infernal Robotics. Now, with the first release it is stable and usable.

Perhaps time to give it another spin then, I've been resisting the urge to try in in case it suffers the same problems and eats my cat again, but it sounds like this -Next incarnation is a somewhat different beast.
 

12 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

I don't think that you have to wait for it, if you don't want to do things that need those new features.

Excellent. New features aren't the draw here, IR that works properly is. Thanks for tackling the bugs, whatever it is you found in there.

[Rudolf Meier]

1 hour ago, steve_v said:

Perhaps time to give it another spin then, I've been resisting the urge to try in in case it suffers the same problems and eats my cat again, but it sounds like this -Next incarnation is a somewhat different beast.

Excellent. New features aren't the draw here, IR that works properly is. Thanks for tackling the bugs, whatever it is you found in there.

Infernal Robotics Next is not just a big bugfix. Main parts of the code is written new, from scratch. The idea and the gui is the same, but the code is new. Would be interesting to see how many similarities a tool like WinDiff would find...

[Svevlad]

 

On 7/28/2019 at 9:49 AM, Rudolf Meier said:

Does this also happen with dlc parts? ... currently I cannot imagine where this effect could come from. Except, from the calculation of the correction when resetting the target position in every frame. ... but it's hard to imagine that this causes a big drop in framerates. It's not that complicated...

... but maybe I can still improve it a bit. If it's not KAL itself. I think we have to do some tests before I can say more...

No, it only happens with IR parts. I do not know why. You can test it in a VAB also, you do not need to launch it in order to test this. every time I move some curve which controls some IR part the frame drops. It can be easily seen if you pack more IR parts in KAL ( the more IR parts you assign to be controled with KAL the more obvious frame drop gets)

[Rudolf Meier]

1 hour ago, Svevlad said:

 

No, it only happens with IR parts. I do not know why. You can test it in a VAB also, you do not need to launch it in order to test this. every time I move some curve which controls some IR part the frame drops. It can be easily seen if you pack more IR parts in KAL ( the more IR parts you assign to be controled with KAL the more obvious frame drop gets)

I will try it myself and figure out what it is... could be that I can fix it. The main problem of KAL-1000 and DLC robotics is, that is doesn't have the same concept of the "acceleration" as we have in IR. Those movements are much more instant than those of IR parts. This makes it difficult to use the same values and techniques. We had long discussions about that and what could be done. Without a proper acceleration limitation, we think, it's not as realistic and also not as usable as it is today. Dropping the concept would make everything much more unstable, wobbly, uncontrollable and is not an option. But maybe I can still improve the collaboration of those parts... it's pretty new, so we will see.

[kcs123]

Hmmm, just thinking loud, maybe there is a chance to overrride how stock KAL works ? To inject new pieces of code in KAL that can take in account part acceleration ?
Meaning, KAL GUI would remain the same as stock (with minor changes only if necessary) , but would behave differently under the hood.

Edited August 2, 2019 by kcs123

[Boyanski]

Hi, I am using IR parts to make a sweep wing but get a wobble. I already have KJR, but it doesn't fix the problem.

[V8jester]

7 hours ago, Boyanski said:

Hi, I am using IR parts to make a sweep wing but get a wobble. I already have KJR, but it doesn't fix the problem.

Something I have done on moving wing / engine designs is use a quantum strut from the body to the wing. This allows you to lock the wing in position when not in motion.

Active struts is also a very great option. I only use quantum struts as that’s what I got used to. They both work great.

[Rudolf Meier]

6 hours ago, V8jester said:

Something I have done on moving wing / engine designs is use a quantum strut from the body to the wing. This allows you to lock the wing in position when not in motion.

Active struts is also a very great option. I only use quantum struts as that’s what I got used to. They both work great.

Locking the IR parts should be enough. If you have installed KJR Next, it will then secure everything over those locked IR parts.

14 hours ago, Boyanski said:

Hi, I am using IR parts to make a sweep wing but get a wobble. I already have KJR, but it doesn't fix the problem.

lock the parts when not used, then KJR Next will rebuild the joints and secure them... should work much better then

[Boyanski]

8 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

Locking the IR parts should be enough. If you have installed KJR Next, it will then secure everything over those locked IR parts.

lock the parts when not used, then KJR Next will rebuild the joints and secure them... should work much better then

Quantum struts are ok, but if you want to move the wing you have to deactivate them, which returns the wobble effect and the wing is tilted. I hope you get what I mean. 

14 hours ago, V8jester said:

Something I have done on moving wing / engine designs is use a quantum strut from the body to the wing. This allows you to lock the wing in position when not in motion.

Active struts is also a very great option. I only use quantum struts as that’s what I got used to. They both work great.

Yes, quantum struts hold it in place, but if I want to use the robotics I have to deactivate the struts which makes my wings tilted. 

[N3N]

Hey,

First Thank you for this great mod!

 

I don't want to bother you, but I'm working on setting up a new install (after not having played KSP for over 12 moths) and I was wondering,

if there will be a new update in the next days/weeks?

Or at least a rough ETA of some sort?

 

Or is it OK (or even better) to use the Pre-release (v3.0.2) from github for KSP 1.7.3 with both DLCs?

https://github.com/meirumeiru/InfernalRobotics/releases

[Rudolf Meier]

59 minutes ago, N3N said:

Hey,

First Thank you for this great mod!

 

I don't want to bother you, but I'm working on setting up a new install (after not having played KSP for over 12 moths) and I was wondering,

if there will be a new update in the next days/weeks?

Or at least a rough ETA of some sort?

 

Or is it OK (or even better) to use the Pre-release (v3.0.2) from github for KSP 1.7.3 with both DLCs?

https://github.com/meirumeiru/InfernalRobotics/releases

I'm glad that you like it

I would recommend to use the Pre-release. It doesn't have bug as far as I know, but it's not completely finished. But still it is the better choice for 1.7.3

In the summer I had not much time for developing, but I restarted some days ago. So, you can expect to see a new release soon, but I cannot say if it's in 2 weeks or 6 ... but, I don't think that the save files would break. So, if you use 3.0.2, the update shouldn't be a problem later.

[N3N]

1 minute ago, Rudolf Meier said:

I'm glad that you like it

I would recommend to use the Pre-release. It doesn't have bug as far as I know, but it's not completely finished. But still it is the better choice for 1.7.3

In the summer I had not much time for developing, but I restarted some days ago. So, you can expect to see a new release soon, but I cannot say if it's in 2 weeks or 6 ... but, I don't think that the save files would break. So, if you use 3.0.2, the update shouldn't be a problem later.

Hey,

Thank you!

[Calvin_Maclure]

On 8/31/2019 at 1:02 PM, Rudolf Meier said:

I'm glad that you like it

I would recommend to use the Pre-release. It doesn't have bug as far as I know, but it's not completely finished. But still it is the better choice for 1.7.3

In the summer I had not much time for developing, but I restarted some days ago. So, you can expect to see a new release soon, but I cannot say if it's in 2 weeks or 6 ... but, I don't think that the save files would break. So, if you use 3.0.2, the update shouldn't be a problem later.

Cool to see you working on this! That having been said, what version then should I be using for KSP v. 1.6.1? Although, from what I can read on the post, the latest version seems to be good for 1.6.1 and later?? 

Also, regarding KJR, which should I use (playing RP-1 if this helps at all...) KJR - Next or KJR Continued?

Edited September 3, 2019 by Calvin_Maclure

[Rudolf Meier]

7 hours ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

Cool to see you working on this! That having been said, what version then should I be using for KSP v. 1.6.1? Although, from what I can read on the post, the latest version seems to be good for 1.6.1 and later?? 

Also, regarding KJR, which should I use (playing RP-1 if this helps at all...) KJR - Next or KJR Continued?

for 1.6.1 you need the 3.0.0, others are only compatible with 1.7.3 and later

I recommend using KJR Next  

[igdegoo]

i installed the sequencer how to open it?

[Calvin_Maclure]

On 9/3/2019 at 4:11 AM, Rudolf Meier said:

for 1.6.1 you need the 3.0.0, others are only compatible with 1.7.3 and later

I recommend using KJR Next  

Thanks so much for this!

Yeah... the thing about KJR Next is... I play RP-1 and apparently it doesn't play nice with RO (at the very least it is not supported)?

[kcs123]

5 hours ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

Yeah... the thing about KJR Next is... I play RP-1 and apparently it doesn't play nice with RO (at the very least it is not supported)?

If someone take slightly more time to elaborate what does not work well and what need to be fixed for RO then you may expect to get better support. It was asked several times for feedback from people that use RO, but there was no response.

[Rudolf Meier]

20 hours ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

Thanks so much for this!

Yeah... the thing about KJR Next is... I play RP-1 and apparently it doesn't play nice with RO (at the very least it is not supported)?

I think, there is no problem and KJR Next works better with RO than the Continued. I think, the reason for why RO writes on their site that it's not working was an old version of KJR Next that was out for only about a week (months ago) and is no longer available (I even deleted it from the servers). It had a compatibility problem with some mods of RO. But after the next update of KSP (I think it was 1.7.1 or 1.7.2) there was a new interface and the problem with robotic parts of the DLC could have been solved differently and much easier. Since then we don't have those problems anymore... but, I fixed this without feedback of the RO team or users.

15 hours ago, kcs123 said:

If someone take slightly more time to elaborate what does not work well and what need to be fixed for RO then you may expect to get better support. It was asked several times for feedback from people that use RO, but there was no response.

Right... I tried to talk to them, but never got an answer. All I did hear from a moderator (Snark) is, that they owe me nothing and that they don't have to talk to me if they don't want. And I should stop asking them via their thread.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Rudolf Meier