The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge Continued

[HeronRocketry]

9 hours ago, jinnantonix said:

I am inspired by the Jool-5 challenge.  My aim is build a mission that has a Kerbal scientist visit and collect max science from every biome in the Jool system (including Laythe water biomes), and return to Kerbal with a storage container. I am pretty sure I can do it without any mods.  The trick I think is to be able to mine ore for fuel on the surface, and get to orbit in a single launch re-usable craft.  Tricky for Laythe and Tylo, but I think I have nailed it.  I am not sure how to submit though.  Where do I send my pics and videos?

 

Simply post the photos on your favorite site like imgur and share/embed the link here. The judges will get around to you soon!

 

Good luck on your ISRU attempt!

[JacobJHC]

9 hours ago, jinnantonix said:

I am inspired by the Jool-5 challenge.  My aim is build a mission that has a Kerbal scientist visit and collect max science from every biome in the Jool system (including Laythe water biomes), and return to Kerbal with a storage container. I am pretty sure I can do it without any mods.  The trick I think is to be able to mine ore for fuel on the surface, and get to orbit in a single launch re-usable craft.  Tricky for Laythe and Tylo, but I think I have nailed it.  I am not sure how to submit though.  Where do I send my pics and videos?

 

Best of luck. Just put them in an imgur album and put the link here, or make a mission report thread and link that here.

[Ziv]

Hello Everyone, I'm so happy to see that this challenge is still up and running! And congratulations for everyone how have accomplished it! 
Or at least tried it!  

Back then when I created the first variant of this challenge then I was not sure if a JOOL-5 mission was possible at all: there was no refueling option at that time, the orange tank was the biggest fuel tank and the mainsail the biggest engine, and the ship shook and exploded if it had more than 4-500 parts. It took me weeks to plan, test and fly my first successful JOOL-5 mission and it was a lot of fun!

With the bigger parts, the more stable part physics and especially the stock refueling made it somewhat easier. But it's still a very-very challenging and complex mission, so good luck for everybody who dare to go for it!
...maybe I'll try it again with 1.4 stock  (with MechJeb, I have to see at least my deltaV's ).

And a big respect to @JacobJHC for keeping it alive! Cheers Mate!  

[Laie]

Well, too bad I didn't get it ready in time for the old man himself to see it...

 

Technicalities:
KSP 1.4.3
Editor Extensions, KAC, MJ, KER
Single Kerbal, single launch, no refueling, no gimmicks
133.6k Funds
Craft File

Ziv's complains (which he just repeated above) about your usual Jool-5 these days being altogether too massive have informed the making of this vessel, but I didn't attempt a serious low-mass entry. It's a "quick" Jool-5 in that I put together the mission in one afternoon and flew it on the next. Seriously trying for a low-mass entry would have required more effort than I was willing to put in at the time. Though, if I had known how much work I would eventually sink into making this video, I might have reconsidered.

It may not be obvious from the movie, but the mission didn't quite play out as intended: the nuke had way too much fuel, while the Tylo ascent stage was undersupplied, requiring the landing stage to give it a hands up (which, in turn, required the nuke to help with the landing. Good thing that I had fuel to spare!) -- well, so much for casual mission planning. But it worked, and that's what matters, right?

Playing in sandbox mode, I left the science gear at home, which not only saves mass, but also complications: no need to make any plans for moving the science package between landers, for example. Valentina collects a few pebbles as keepsake and that's that.

As for delta-V, the usual dV charts already provide a fair safety margin. Escaping from a 60km Laythe orbit took about 600m/s for example, and would easily lift me to an AP way above Tylo's. Among the inner moons, escape equals transfer; if you account 100m/s for capture at the next destination, you're all set.

I didn't keep track of the cost of going to Bop and Pol -- you'll have to pause the video and check the numbers if you're really that curious. The data is there, after all. But I didn't really plan that part, I just brought "enough" dV (easy with ions) and never worried about it.

[JacobJHC]

Congratulations @Laie for completing the Jool 5 challenge with a level one submission! I really liked how you used such a simple yet effective ship for Laythe, which held the Vall lander inside.  Although I do have one question that I just realized, is your Tylo lander using a 2.5 meter fuel tank or a 1.875 meter fuel tank? Either way it is a very optimal Tylo lander with it's small size. Good Job!

[Laie]

It's your standard Rockomax-8 (2.5m). 

The lander depends on the transfer stage doing part of the work no matter what; dV + TWR don't quite suffice for a safe landing otherwise. Well, not what I'd consider "safe" at any rate.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Laie

[Laie]

Thanks for the kind review, and also many thanks for keeping the challenge alive.

[JacobJHC]

45 minutes ago, Laie said:

Thanks for the kind review, and also many thanks for keeping the challenge alive.

Not a problem, I enjoyed reviewing it. The real people keeping the challenge alive are those who actually complete the challenge, so thanks to you for keeping it alive with you submission.

[IvanBatura]

@Laie Haha, for a few milliseconds I thought it was my J5 ship

Edited June 7, 2018 by IvanBatura

[The Minmus Derp]

If I do this alongside \/ this \/ will it count? @JacobJHC

EDIT: WOOT! 5 pages!

Edited June 7, 2018 by The Minmus Derp
Kerbiets!! RUN!!!!!!!

[JacobJHC]

1 hour ago, The Minmus Derp said:

If I do this alongside \/ this \/ will it count? @JacobJHC

EDIT: WOOT! 5 pages!

It absolutely will. Good luck!

[Ultimate Steve]

I recently did a speedrun of KSP (career, land a Kerbal on everything and return) and I did a Jool-5 ish mission as part of that and will be uploading it to YT soon. However, as far as clipping goes, I have a bad habit of taking FL-T100 tanks, rotating them, and attaching them, so about 30% of the tank ends up inside something else, usually another tank. Given that this only slipped in for the Vall lander, where it wouldn't really matter as far as aero goes, would this still count as a valid entry?

The Vall lander is the thing on the end.

[JacobJHC]

3 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

I recently did a speedrun of KSP (career, land a Kerbal on everything and return) and I did a Jool-5 ish mission as part of that and will be uploading it to YT soon. However, as far as clipping goes, I have a bad habit of taking FL-T100 tanks, rotating them, and attaching them, so about 30% of the tank ends up inside something else, usually another tank. Given that this only slipped in for the Vall lander, where it wouldn't really matter as far as aero goes, would this still count as a valid entry?

 

Sure. Can't wait to see the video.

Also, in this time of need I would like to call on the knowledge and judgement of @sdj64. Does clipping a radial engine to make it a nonradial engine count as clipping? I am only clipping the attachment point so I would just imagine that they only put on the engine part instead of the whole thing. Personally I would say it's fine but since I am the judge I need someone to judge the judge.

[Ultimate Steve]

1 minute ago, JacobJHC said:

Sure. Can't wait to see the video. 

Also, in this time of need I would like to call on the knowledge and judgement of @sdj64. Does clipping a radial engine to make it a nonradial engine count as clipping? I am only clipping the attachment point so I would just imagine that they only put on the engine part instead of the whole thing. Personally I would say it's fine but since I am the judge I need someone to judge the judge. 

I don't have the qualifications to answer this, but it would probably be okay if you drained 50-70% of the center tanks to "make room" for the engine.

[JacobJHC]

1 minute ago, Ultimate Steve said:

I don't have the qualifications to answer this, but it would probably be okay if you drained 50-70% of the center tanks to "make room" for the engine.

I was thinking something similar to 'make room' for the engine but I don't want the thing to be too wide. I've gotten into this groove where I really like to land tall things with narrow bases. (Falcon 9 landing addiction)

[Laie]

I don't believe in the "making room" theory, if only because it's bound to become a PITA when judging challenges.

AFAICT, the no clipping rule serves two purposes:

1. help with making a craft understandable, so one can conceivably rebuild it from pictures.
2. if you bring lots of stuff you vessel has to be as tall or wide as the game says it needs to be. Don't put five items in one place than brag how it fits into a small cargo bay.

The easiest rules to follow are those imposed by the game, however, even Ziv himself hasn't be too poophole about this (EDIT: another example of the profanity filter not helping at all). Structural parts could be pretty much clipped at leisure.

In the case at hand, I'd consider the radial engine mount to be such a piece. KSP engines typically consist of little more than the bell itself, anything beyond has to be structural.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Laie

[sdj64]

31 minutes ago, JacobJHC said:

Sure. Can't wait to see the video.

Also, in this time of need I would like to call on the knowledge and judgement of @sdj64. Does clipping a radial engine to make it a nonradial engine count as clipping? I am only clipping the attachment point so I would just imagine that they only put on the engine part instead of the whole thing. Personally I would say it's fine but since I am the judge I need someone to judge the judge.

I got that question once before with a Thud, and I think I said if half the body is visible it would be good.  Though if I was judging your entry and I saw this in the album after you finished the challenge, I'd probably accept it since it's not that major.

[jinnantonix]

On 5/28/2018 at 3:31 AM, HeronRocketry said:

Simply post the photos on your favorite site like imgur and share/embed the link here. The judges will get around to you soon!

 

Good luck on your ISRU attempt!

ISRU sorted, and includes the following:

• 1 x Converter-Tron 125
• 1 x Small ore tank
• 2 x Drill-O-Matic junior
• 6 x RB-NUK RTG
• 5 x Fuel Cell

It's slow, but produces net fuel night and day, and works at any warp speed.  My mission includes two identical mining rigs, one for the Lander, and one for the Mother (prime mover) as below.

https://imgur.com/rsVcaaW

https://imgur.com/mevUklO

[I don't know why I can't upload these images direct into the post, any ideas?]

I have now completed collecting science at all biomes on Pol and Laythe (the DeGrasse Sea and Crater Bay were a challenge).  I have also tested landing and launching on Bop, Val, and Tylo, and expect no problems in putting a flag on every biome.  It's taking many hours in game time, but I expect to complete all biomes and return the Hitchhiker to Kerbin very soon.  I expect I will post an album on imgur when completed, I have a lot of screenshots.

[PHO3NIX_F1RE]

I'm considering this challenge when my Kerbin-Jool transfer window comes around in my career save, I have a question until then: is sending multiple ships simultaneously against the rules in this case? My plan is to send one loaded with probes/satellites to set up a comms network, have one for long term science gathering/processing, and one for the challenge. They wouldn't interact (I.E fuel transfers, crew transfers, etc) except for using the comms network passively. In my head this doesn't directly break any rules, but I'll put it forward anyway.

In theory I could just alter the trajectories so that the J5 challenge gets there first, and is done before the others arrive.

[JacobJHC]

22 minutes ago, PHO3NIX_F1RE said:

I'm considering this challenge when my Kerbin-Jool transfer window comes around in my career save, I have a question until then: is sending multiple ships simultaneously against the rules in this case? My plan is to send one loaded with probes/satellites to set up a comms network, have one for long term science gathering/processing, and one for the challenge. They wouldn't interact (I.E fuel transfers, crew transfers, etc) except for using the comms network passively. In my head this doesn't directly break any rules, but I'll put it forward anyway.

In theory I could just alter the trajectories so that the J5 challenge gets there first, and is done before the others arrive.

As long as the mission sent for the challenge doesn't interact with the others I see no problem. Good luck!

[jinnantonix]

On 5/28/2018 at 3:31 AM, HeronRocketry said:

 

[jinnantonix]

OK, I have finally completed my first Jool-5 Challenge mission:  Phew!

Summary Album here.

Full album is here

Single launch of entire craft.  Craft file is here

Craft includes 5 docked components·

• Mother (Prime Mover) craft with ISRU, may be landed / refuelled at Pol, Bop and Vall.  12 x Liq fuel Atomic engines.
• Lander craft with ISRU, science devices, including Science Junior and storage container.  1 x Liq+Ox fuel Vector engine.
• 1 x Hitchhiker with heat shield, chutes, M700 ore scanner, and science storage container:  Crew : 1x pilot, 1x scientist, 2x engineers
• 2 x Mk1 lander cans for providing a base with extra flags on the surface of Laythe and Tylo.

Mission includes:

• Kerbin to Jool transit, with Jool aerobrake.  Refuel at Pol.
• Setup Relay satellites in highly eccentric polar orbit on all moons (2x RA-100, 8x RA-15 dishes)
• Multiple probes specifically designed to find ore bodies on each moon surface (16 x probes)
• Setup lander cans as bases on Laythe and Tylo
• Visit all biomes (including Laythe water biomes) and collect all available science on all moons
• Flags on all biomes except Laythe water biomes
• Return from Pol to Kerbin orbit with entire craft for re-use.  Lander craft recovered at space center
• Landed 4 x crew aboard Hitchhiker on Kerbin with all science in storage recovered to the space center (~50,000 science)

All stock components, V1.3.  Only mod added is WorldStabilizer.  (couldn’t cope with craft randomly exploding for no reason)

Note:

Bug:  In version 1.3

• on Laythe, there are two biomes for Crescent Bay, and no Crater Bay exists
• on Tylo, there are two biomes for Gagarin Crater, and no Grissom Crater exists

 

Let me know if you have any questions.  If I get some time, I will create a Youtube video (or two).

Edited June 14, 2018 by jinnantonix
Updated URLs, adding comments, tidy

[JacobJHC]

13 hours ago, jinnantonix said:

Let me know if you have any questions

I saw experiments but I want to be sure, did you do this in science mode? If so how much science did you get? 

[jinnantonix]

58 minutes ago, JacobJHC said:

I saw experiments but I want to be sure, did you do this in science mode? If so how much science did you get? 

The mission was done in Science mode.  I collected 44,516.8 science points when recovering the Hitchhiker.  

[JacobJHC]

2 hours ago, jinnantonix said:

The mission was done in Science mode.  I collected 44,516.8 science points when recovering the Hitchhiker.  

I just want to clarify there were two kerbals on each landing right? From the pictures I can make out two kerbals on some of the landings and just want to be sure.