[WIP][RSS/RO] Alternate Apollo

[CobaltWolf]

Well back in the day the efficiency of solar panels was much lower - pretty much anything involving manned spaceflight would opt for fuel cells - doubly so in the D-2, where they already had LH2 and O for the engine. With that said they're awfully nice panels and you can't get rid of them now

[Kablob]

Downloaded and I'm having the problem that none of the engines in this mod actually do anything, ingame the engine module for them is just missing. The Block II LES only functions as a decoupler.

[mcdouble]

7 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Well back in the day the efficiency of solar panels was much lower - pretty much anything involving manned spaceflight would opt for fuel cells - doubly so in the D-2, where they already had LH2 and O for the engine. With that said they're awfully nice panels and you can't get rid of them now

Yeah I guess I am going strictly non-canon now and trying to imagine what the D-2 might have evolved into as a basic orbital vehicle like Soyuz, there's also a fuel cell in the propulsion module so it isn't necessary to use the solar panels. Thanks for the stock sizing advice btw, that helped a lot. 

 

3 hours ago, Kablob said:

Downloaded and I'm having the problem that none of the engines in this mod actually do anything, ingame the engine module for them is just missing. The Block II LES only functions as a decoupler.

Hmm that's an odd one, I've been testing using a stock 1.4.2 install and a 1.3.1 RSS/RO install and haven't seen that. Did you have a different KSP version or any mods that might conflict with it somehow? Sorry, I don't have much experience fixing bugs etc

[Kablob]

2 hours ago, mcdouble said:

Hmm that's an odd one, I've been testing using a stock 1.4.2 install and a 1.3.1 RSS/RO install and haven't seen that. Did you have a different KSP version or any mods that might conflict with it somehow? Sorry, I don't have much experience fixing bugs etc

I'm on stock 1.4.3. Not sure what could be conflicting with it.

[mcdouble]

2 hours ago, Kablob said:

I'm on stock 1.4.3. Not sure what could be conflicting with it.

Ah ok, maybe there's an issue with the latest KSP version, I haven't been able to update as the HDD my Steam folder was on died. I'll try to reinstall and check that.

edit: Just did a clean install from Steam and everything is working ok for me, not sure what's happening there. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by mcdouble

[mcdouble]

Well I'm back and doing some more stuff on this mod, next up I hope to make a series of station parts that will sort of be an alternate history American version of Salyut/Mir, using an aesthetic you might see in 1960s-1970s concept art like this:

There is now an "ApolloLab" station module which is essentially a self-contained equivalent to early Salyut stations, not sure what will be next but it will involve ways to expand it into a modular station, with docking port hubs and some kind of tug system for docking new modules. Also maybe a nuclear reactor

Also redid the D-2 block II solar panels to go in 4-way symmetry at the rear, which looks a lot more reasonable I think.

[CobaltWolf]

Oh my gosh I love it. Everything about it. Perfect. Love.

[Pappystein]

These parts are looking very nice. I have been waiting for this project to mature and bare fruit!   I had contemplated making this capsule (until I realized that Texturing is less an art form for me and more an impossible achievement I will never reach.)    I had planned on a Blk-2 Mission module myself...  But with a 0.9375m end point to handle the BDB docking standards for AAP.  If you get the time could that be a Blk-III part for your capsule with a shallower angle to support a 0.9375m docking port?  Or if you are feeling ambitious a B9PartSwitch Version of the Blk-2 module to switch between the two sizes?

But as I say in nearly every post when I make a comment like this....  It is your mod and you are the creative genius... not me.   so NO PRESSURE. 

 

[BRAAAP_STUTUTU]

Yaaaasssssss, another fine addition to my collection of BDB-stlye mods!

Instant-follow

[mcdouble]

54 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

These parts are looking very nice. I have been waiting for this project to mature and bare fruit!   I had contemplated making this capsule (until I realized that Texturing is less an art form for me and more an impossible achievement I will never reach.)    I had planned on a Blk-2 Mission module myself...  But with a 0.9375m end point to handle the BDB docking standards for AAP.  If you get the time could that be a Blk-III part for your capsule with a shallower angle to support a 0.9375m docking port?  Or if you are feeling ambitious a B9PartSwitch Version of the Blk-2 module to switch between the two sizes?

But as I say in nearly every post when I make a comment like this....  It is your mod and you are the creative genius... not me.   so NO PRESSURE. 

 

No that sounds interesting and I would love to hear any ideas because I often don't know what to do next. Altering the module to a different docking port shouldn't be too hard either.

edit: just had a look in blender and scaling the top of the block II module probably makes the forward facing windows no longer feasible. However that gives me an idea, which is there could be a "cargo variant" where the engineers just decided to pull off the top with its heavy and expensive windows and replace it with a more shallowly angled conical section, allowing for more storage space and a larger docking port attachment. Then it's kinda like Progress is to Soyuz.

Edited November 9, 2018 by mcdouble

[DiscoSlelge]

14 hours ago, mcdouble said:

Well I'm back and doing some more stuff on this mod, next up I hope to make a series of station parts that will sort of be an alternate history American version of Salyut/Mir, using an aesthetic you might see in 1960s-1970s concept art like this:

There is now an "ApolloLab" station module which is essentially a self-contained equivalent to early Salyut stations, not sure what will be next but it will involve ways to expand it into a modular station, with docking port hubs and some kind of tug system for docking new modules. Also maybe a nuclear reactor Also redid the D-2 block II solar panels to go in 4-way symmetry at the rear, which looks a lot more reasonable I think.

*snip*

Wow wow amazing stuff for the station I'm really excited with what is about to come as addition to your fantastic mod <3

[Pappystein]

4 hours ago, mcdouble said:

 

edit: just had a look in blender and scaling the top of the block II module probably makes the forward facing windows no longer feasible. However that gives me an idea, which is there could be a "cargo variant" where the engineers just decided to pull off the top with its heavy and expensive windows and replace it with a more shallowly angled conical section, allowing for more storage space and a larger docking port attachment. Then it's kinda like Progress is to Soyuz.

darn it!  I didn't think about the forward windows!  

But I LIKE the Idea of a Cargo Variant.   Between the Station Tug and Aardvark we already have other pieces for cargo but a crew/cargo lifter is currently NOT in any of the mods I use.   I was hoping to see a Big-G completed for that roll but the D2 could serve in that role NICELY with a smaller rocket and less "odd/1 use" parts.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Pappystein

[MOARdV]

19 hours ago, mcdouble said:

Well I'm back and doing some more stuff on this mod, next up I hope to make a series of station parts that will sort of be an alternate history American version of Salyut/Mir,

Oh, man, and I just finished making my alternate history Near Mir

The first Apollo D2 was just about to get rolled out to the launch site (atop a Soyuz LV, alas).

"whining" aside, I'm glad to see you're back and looking at this mod.  The D2 is going to be the core of my crewed OTV, and knowing there will be additions to the mod makes me happy.

[mcdouble]

3 hours ago, MOARdV said:

Oh, man, and I just finished making my alternate history Near Mir

Skylab/Mir crossover huh? That looks really nice.

[Daishi]

On 11/9/2018 at 6:48 PM, mcdouble said:

Well I'm back and doing some more stuff on this mod, next up I hope to make a series of station parts that will sort of be an alternate history American version of Salyut/Mir, using an aesthetic you might see in 1960s-1970s concept art like this:

 

There is now an "ApolloLab" station module which is essentially a self-contained equivalent to early Salyut stations, not sure what will be next but it will involve ways to expand it into a modular station, with docking port hubs and some kind of tug system for docking new modules. Also maybe a nuclear reactor

 

Damn that's pretty. Endorsed!

[Gordon Dry]

To avoid the engines being no engines anymore in a stockalike game (3.2x) without RealFuels I had to edit 2 patches:

1. GameData\AlternateApollo\ApolloD2\apollod_engine\AJ10_plume.cfg

   @PART[ApolloD2_AJ10]:FOR[RealPlume]:NEEDS[SmokeScreen,RealFuels]
   {
   	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
   	{
   		@name = ModuleEnginesRF
   		!runningEffectName = DELETE
   	}
       @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
       {
           %type = ModuleEnginesRF
           @CONFIG,*
           {
               %powerEffectName = Hydrolox-Upper
           }
       }
       PLUME
       {
           name = Hydrolox-Upper
           transformName = thrustTransform
           localRotation = 0,0,0
   		plumePosition = 0,0,2.7
           plumeScale = 1.3
           flarePosition = 0,0,2.55
           flareScale = 1.3
           energy = 1
           speed = 1
       }
   }
   
   @PART[ApolloD2_AJ10]:FOR[RealPlume]:NEEDS[SmokeScreen,!RealFuels]
   {
   	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
   	{
   		@name = ModuleEnginesFX
   		%powerEffectName = Kerolox-Upper
   	}
       PLUME
       {
           name = Kerolox-Upper
           transformName = thrustTransform
           localRotation = 0,0,0
   		plumePosition = 0,0,2.7
           plumeScale = 1.3
           flarePosition = 0,0,2.55
           flareScale = 1.3
           energy = 1
           speed = 1
       }
   }
   

2. GameData\AlternateApollo\ApolloD2\apollod_LESii\LESii_plume.cfg

   @PART[ApolloD2_lesii]:FOR[RealPlume]:NEEDS[SmokeScreen,RealFuels]
   {
   	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
   	{
   		@name = ModuleEnginesRF
   		!runningEffectName = DELETE
   	}
       @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
       {
           %type = ModuleEnginesRF
           @CONFIG,*
           {
               %powerEffectName = Solid-Lower
           }
       }
       PLUME
       {
           name = Solid-Lower
           transformName = thrustTransform
           localRotation = 0,0,0
   		plumePosition = 0,0,0.5
           plumeScale = 0.5
           flarePosition = 0,0,0.4
           flareScale = 0.5
           energy = 1
           speed = 1
       }
   }
   
   @PART[ApolloD2_lesii]:FOR[RealPlume]:NEEDS[SmokeScreen,!RealFuels]
   {
   	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
   	{
   		@name = ModuleEnginesFX
   		%powerEffectName = Solid-Lower
   	}
       PLUME
       {
           name = Solid-Lower
           transformName = thrustTransform
           localRotation = 0,0,0
   		plumePosition = 0,0,0.5
           plumeScale = 0.5
           flarePosition = 0,0,0.4
           flareScale = 0.5
           energy = 1
           speed = 1
       }
   }
   

    

 

[mcdouble]

4 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

To avoid the engines being no engines anymore in a stockalike game (3.2x) without RealFuels I had to edit 2 patches:

Ah thanks, I'm still pretty bad on the config side of things. I'll try to incorporate your fix, looks like it's the same issue that someone else was having earlier.

[MOARdV]

Okay, I finally had a chance to put the ApolloLab into orbit (using what was on GitHub yesterday morning).  I like the looks of its solar panels.  I'm already thinking of scrapping my Near Mir to replace the solar panels on the main modules with these, and to find a way to incorporate this lab.

The one issue I ran into is that the lab requires a crew, which means it can't be operated unmanned, or you've got to stick a probe core on it somewhere to control it.  I'd recommend changing its ModuleCommand to have a minimumCrew of 0 so it can be launched and operated on orbit without a crew.  It also doesn't have an internal antenna, so if you forget to add an antenna before launch, it'll lose communication.  (At least, I'm assuming you intend for it to be operated remotely - if not, kindly disregard this feedback)

[mcdouble]

1 hour ago, MOARdV said:

I'd recommend changing its ModuleCommand to have a minimumCrew of 0 so it can be launched and operated on orbit without a crew.  It also doesn't have an internal antenna, so if you forget to add an antenna before launch, it'll lose communication.  (At least, I'm assuming you intend for it to be operated remotely - if not, kindly disregard this feedback)

Those are indeed things I probably just forgot about, I will update soon. Thanks for testing.

[Pappystein]

So I don't know if this is an issue or not.   AJ-10 is a Hydrolox engine?   Shouldn't it be a RL-10 in there?

[mcdouble]

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

So I don't know if this is an issue or not.   AJ-10 is a Hydrolox engine?   Shouldn't it be a RL-10 in there?

That's based on the engine the D-2 vehicle was proposed to use, which was a hydrolox version of the AJ10 called the AJ10-133. it was never actually built but there are specs available in various technical documents (who knows how realistic they are though).

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, mcdouble said:

That's based on the engine the D-2 vehicle was proposed to use, which was a hydrolox version of the AJ10 called the AJ10-133. it was never actually built but there are specs available in various technical documents (who knows how realistic they are though).

Yeah I found some documentation on it after you responded.  Interestingly is it used a 3rd fuel to induce Hypergolic reaction in the Hydro-lox mix.

[mcdouble]

Added a cargo module with 0.9375m docking attachment, not sure yet on how to config it to reflect its role (in stock at least)

17 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Yeah I found some documentation on it after you responded.  Interestingly is it used a 3rd fuel to induce Hypergolic reaction in the Hydro-lox mix.

Oh yeah I remember reading that, like how are we going to ignite the fuel on this first human trip to the moon? "oh just dump some fluorine in the fuel mix and make hypergolic hydrolox, trust me it'll be a great idea".

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, mcdouble said:

Added a cargo module with 0.9375m docking attachment, not sure yet on how to config it to reflect its role (in stock at least)

 

Oh yeah I remember reading that, like how are we going to ignite the fuel on this first human trip to the moon? "oh just dump some fluorine in the fuel mix and make hypergolic hydrolox, trust me it'll be a great idea".

Nice part.   B9Part Switch between Ore/Mono+EC like @CobaltWolf does

 

As an aside I can still see this as a small lab / expanded crew area as the first version.  Just no forward window and the seat would likely be on the side facing the opposite side.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Pappystein
Ignore the symetry comment. Was for another BDBalike mod... :(

[mcdouble]

21 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

As an aside I can still see this as a small lab / expanded crew area as the first version.  Just no forward window and the seat would likely be on the side facing the opposite side.

Oh yeah it doesn't have to be a cargo module if you don't want to use it that way. Another possibility is that the earlier module required windows because dockings had to be done manually, while this is an upgraded module with autonomous docking capability which allows more space. Of course it is also missing the airlock but by that time you would probably be visiting space stations with their own airlock modules anyway.

Also feel free to do whatever you like with configs etc, I don't mind at all.