Duna Outpost Mission Architecture Challenge

[hoioh]

Might I present to you, good sir, in honor of the valiant efforts put forth in conquering the red sands of Duna using little green men, your personal badge!

The badge is unique and represents your great personal efforts as well as the exact level of aptitude shown in the manner by which you have completed your assignment.

Stand proud and wear this badge of honor!

[Kerbolitto]

Congrats @Death Engineering !!

Beautifull setup !

[jinnantonix]

DOMA Part 2(b)

Addendum to Mission 2:  Jeb and Bill return to Kerbin

 

[jinnantonix]

DOMA Transit 3 mission

At Year 6 Day 250 there are 64 Kerbals at the Duna Outpost, and backup plan fully in place, with a plan for evacuation of all Kerbals from the surface with two launches of the DEV, refuelling at the DSS. 

Transit 4 mission is under way.

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by jinnantonix

[Alchemist]

finally got to this point

The first expedition is going back home. Also, Bill brought some upgrades to the mobile base that should improve its mobility

[Death Engineering]

On 1/9/2019 at 1:39 AM, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

How would you refuel that though?

Minmus mining or just launch up the Duna transfer burn fuel with the payload. Over the span of the challenge, launching the fuel would likely be less mass than Minmus mining (although my 'mining' skillz are unrefined.. my methods are unlikely to be optimal). Of course the challenge achievements ask for ISRU from Ike/Duna or drag (park) an asteroid around Duna. 

 

On 1/9/2019 at 3:25 AM, jinnantonix said:

I have found that having two autonomous NERVA tugs with integrated ISRU capability is working fine

The integrated mining/refining seems ideal. I should try that.

 

On 1/9/2019 at 3:25 AM, jinnantonix said:

This has resulted in a lot of empty containers attached to the outpost habitation modules, which looks very ugly.

Describes my bases perfectly.

 

On 1/9/2019 at 12:24 PM, hoioh said:

Stand proud and wear this badge of honor!

Far out. Thanks!

 

[Alchemist]

On 1/9/2019 at 6:39 AM, Death Engineering said:

In-situ life support generation is something I should have focused on more (and earlier..). While my simple method of dropping supply pods for the outpost modules was effective and reasonably mass-inexpensive, it was not a clean solution. There was already a collection of depleted supply pods accumulating on the surface and it wouldn't take long before a 'garbage dump' would be needed. (That was a sobering thought.)

On 1/9/2019 at 10:25 AM, jinnantonix said:

I got very confused about how to best implement TAC-LS components most efficiently, and just gave up and designed the mission with just lots of containers of food, water and oxygen.  No, not even a greenhouse or water filter.  This has resulted in a lot of empty containers attached to the outpost habitation modules, which looks very ugly.  In retrospect, I wish I had spent more time on a more space/mass efficient life support system.  At this stage I do not propose to leave the outpost fully Kerballed, and will have everything in place for nearly fully abandoning the base post year 10, with perhaps just a few Kerbals remaining to process the science in the labs.

To be honest, the exact scale of this challenge doesn't really favor full life-support autonomy. Not sure if other mods may have it significantly different, but with what I'm using (Planetary Base Systems + TAC-LS) it turns out that a greenhouse (produces food for 6 Kerbals) + 2 algae farms (needed to produce the fertilizer for the greenhouse) have mass of 4 tons - and that without other resource generation necessary for the operation (water and ore mining, power supply) or support structures

Now, enough food for the same 6 Kerbals for 10 years is slightly under the same 4 tons, including the container mass. And then you can get away without mining water (and need to bother with ore only when you need fuel).
as for oxygen, PBS has atmospheric filter module that allows to cover the gap in regeneration from CO₂

 

Yeah, I might have shot myself in the leg going for full LS-autonomy (my second module is about to arrive to Duna, increasing base crew to 16 and bringing enough greenhouses to feed 18), at least as far as scoring is concerned. Ah, anyway that's my playstyle - to design for functionality (yeah, totally overengineered, even if it may end up quite elegant as well) and not sacrifice that on overoptimization for scoring. And this mission is actually meant to be me trying out the life support, so why not to try going all the way.

 

P.S. Here we go. And unlike the tests I did back on Kerbin, the wheels didn't pop when surface-docking in lower gravity.

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Alchemist

[jinnantonix]

Transit 4 mission complete.  At Year 9 Day 10, there are 100 Kerbals on the surface of Duna.

 

Sorry about the jerky video, if I can figure out why its happening I will fix and resubmit

Edited January 17, 2019 by jinnantonix

[hoioh]

17 hours ago, Alchemist said:

 

How did you make the screenshot with all the kerbal faces like that? I like the look of that (and your base looks cool as well btw)

[jinnantonix]

Mission completed

At Year 10 Day 1 there are 100 Kerbals on Duna with resources to last until Year 10 Day 420 , and the Transit 5 recovery mission under way.

• Mission Value: 157380
• NPM: 31 tons (21 launches) 
• Efficiency: 157380 / (31*21) = 249.8
• Achievements: 29 
• Mission Plan:  https://imgur.com/a/AjdNjto

Calculation of score.

Spoiler

Value calculation

Days from epoch	In-game date	#Kerbals on Duna	Points
615	Year: 2 Day: 189	12	51720
1528	Year: 4 Day: 250	16	39744
2421	Year: 6 Day: 291	36	50904
3418	Year: 9 Day: 10	36	15012
		100	157380

Achievement Points

The documentation for this submission is in the videos, DOMA parts 1 to 4.  The videos did not include all of the achievements.  However I have game saves at every point of the project, and can load and provide screenshots on request.

Crew safety

• Interplanetary expertise: All crewed interplanetary missions have at least two crew on board. (+1)
• Backup plan: Duna outpost has a backup ascent system to return all kerbals to Duna orbit separate from the primary Duna ascent module. (+2)
• Emergency Evac: if the 'Backup plan' ascent system is utilized with any kerbal on board. (+3)  

Mission robustness

• Duna Space Station: Place a space station in orbit around Duna. The space station must have room for minimum of 3 kerbals (Habitation rule applies). (+1)
• Duna space bus: Deliver a fully reusable shuttle service to Duna that can ferry at least four crew between Duna's surface and Ike's surface (refueling permitted). (+2) . 
• Deep space transit: Implement a fully reusable crew transfer vehicle that can complete a Kerbin <-> Duna round trip without refueling (either direction). Must be capable of carrying a minimum of 4 crew. (+3)

Science value:

• Deep space laboratory: Duna outpost must include at least one Science Lab module. If 'Duna Space Station' is scored, it must also include a Science Lab module. (+1)
• Early mission prestige: Safely return at least two kerbals to Kerbin's surface from a Duna mission before Year 5 Day 1. At least one of the crew members must have walked on either Ike or Duna and return a surface sample with them. (+2)
• Biome diversity: Return surface samples from at least five of Duna's biomes. (+3) *This can be done all at once or separate. If scored, "Early Mission Prestige" sample does not counts toward the five.

Advanced mission objectives

• Kerbin space station: Using SLV launch(es), place a space station in orbit around Kerbin. The station must support at least 4 kerbals and may be used as a staging platform for crew to and from Duna, although not required. (+1)
• Positive uplink: Place a minimum of three relay satellites in orbit around Duna and one around Ike. One of the Duna satellites must be in polar orbit. This also requires Advanced game setting 'Require Signal for Control' ON. (+2)
• Advanced deep space transit: If 'Deep space transit' is scored, it must support a minimum of 5 kerbals and refuel only in Duna SOI (travels from Duna -> Kerbin -> Duna without refueling) (+3)

Surface Mobility

• At least 50% of the Duna crew have access to a seat in a Basic Rover during their outpost surface mission. (0) .  
• Every crew member has access to a Pressurized Rover seat. (+2)
• The outpost is land-mobile/Pressurized Rover (Habitation rule applies). (+3)

Outpost Success Rating

• 29: The outpost delighted the Federation with your exceptional achievement. Your retirement will be luxurious!

 

 

 

Current state  (at Year 10 Day 1)

Spoiler

 

Duna Outpost # 1 with 76 Kerbals, and Duna Space Bus (science hopper) docked

Duna Outpost # 2 with 24 Kerbals, and surface science lab.

Duna Space Station and Advanced Deep Space Taxi 

DOMA Transit 5 Mission craft, ready to burn to Duna.  

Kerbin Space Station

 

Mission Observations:

The key to a successful DOMA project is to fully plan all aspects of the mission, including calculating all resources required, and build all the payloads before launching anything.  I found that as I was building the later part of the mission, I needed to adjust the earlier payloads, and this was critical to the project success. 

Another key aspect of this solution is that it requires the launching of very little fuel - only enough to get the ISRU enabled NERVA tugs to Minmus.  Mining/refining all fuel at Minmus and Ike allowed me to increase the efficiency of the mission, and get more important stuff like seats and resources into orbit.

Having a single SLV with one big fairing saved me a lot of time and effort.  The SLV performed very well with Mechjeb, each launch was reliable with zero problems (except the occasional operator error).  When you are doing 21 launches, it pays to have an easy, automated launch facility.

One thing I regret was not researching TAC-LS enough, and building neat greenhouses to reduce the size and complexity of the outposts.  Having lots of empty resource containers is fugly.

The only achievement I did not fulfil was having basic rovers.  No regrets there, it was going to require too much mass, and meant building a much smaller outpost with less Kerbals on the Duna surface. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by jinnantonix

[hoioh]

4 hours ago, jinnantonix said:

-- snip --

Congratulations! I'll hold out on the badge untill @Death Engineering confirms the score

It's nice to see that you opted for a different approach with the LS containers instead of greenhouses etc. As you said earlier it provides a sobering perspective on LS needs as well as a large garbage dump for the spent containers, which is an interesting lesson in regards to real life mars exploration

[Alchemist]

6 hours ago, hoioh said:

How did you make the screenshot with all the kerbal faces like that? I like the look of that (and your base looks cool as well btw)

several screenshots + Paint.net 

And thanks, I do like the way this base turned out to be.

 

On another note, I once again redesigned one of the payloads for next window. It's something I was actually considering initially, but got a bit discouraged about due to polar location. ISRU module.

It can refuel any landers visiting the base location, and its transfer stage doubles as the tanker for refueling orbital vessels. Now here is the catch - actual refueling of vessels in equatorial orbit is meant to be done by the spacebus mining ore at equator and using the tanker to ship the fuel (definitely a better idea than constantly flying the entire spacebus up and down), but in case of loss of the spacebus the module can drive to equatorial location to provide fuel (using the tanker) both to the interplanetary shuttle and to backup crew transfer vehicles.

Yeah, it has only 2 crew capacity (couldn't fill much more in addition to all this hardware), but on the other hand my current base has 16 crew capacity and can feed 18 - so that it's quite well fitting upgrade to fill the gap.

There is also the question of power supply - both this module and the one with the greenhouses (since this module is supposed to leave the base in case it is required for fuel production elsewhere, the primary power source has to be doubled) use a power source (it's under the static radiators so it can work when driving) that consumes a resource called Enriched Uranium   So, to provide full autonomy (as if this resource is going to run out anytime soon with such consumption), the miner module also has centrifuge capable of extracting uranium from ore.

[hoioh]

12 hours ago, Alchemist said:

several screenshots + Paint.net

I can do that! It looked so neat I was suspecting a mod 

[hoioh]

I couldn't stop myself last weekend, turns out that in total disregard of my previous claim to need to stop this particular challenge, it's all I want to maintain and so, I'm cutting everything else. Here's video for my attempt: SLV 1

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by hoioh

[Death Engineering]

On 1/17/2019 at 7:16 AM, jinnantonix said:

Mission completed

FANTASTIC! 

On 1/17/2019 at 7:16 AM, jinnantonix said:

The key to a successful DOMA project is to fully plan all aspects of the mission, including calculating all resources required, and build all the payloads before launching anything.

Very true. When my save file bugged at the end of Year 7, I was originally bitter about the loss but thankful to alter the last couple of launches when I was able to find a non-corrupted save from two years earlier.

On 1/17/2019 at 7:16 AM, jinnantonix said:

Another key aspect of this solution is that it requires the launching of very little fuel

Fuel is heavy. That fuel mining rig of yours is awesome.

On 1/17/2019 at 7:16 AM, jinnantonix said:

Calculation of score.

It checks out.. congratulations!

@hoioh Thanks for your badgic!  (badge magic..??)

 

On 1/17/2019 at 5:49 PM, Alchemist said:

but in case of loss of the spacebus[..]

Excellent versatility. The uranium resource comes from Near Future?

On 1/18/2019 at 5:50 PM, hoioh said:

Here's video for my attempt: SLV 1

Great vdeo! BTW, at around 6:35 in the video there is something that looks like drilling/harvesting coming off the main wheeled-pod. What was that?

 

 

[hoioh]

2 hours ago, Death Engineering said:

--snip--

Great vdeo! BTW, at around 6:35 in the video there is something that looks like drilling/harvesting coming off the main wheeled-pod. What was that?

 

 

The drilling is to collect ore for the algae production and water to cover the LS self reliance gap and makes this little thing completely stand alone.

It's a bit unstable though, so I've built a MK2 that's more stable.

I was actualy building a second one of the tugs, but last night I considered I might not even need that, which would allow me to put an additional 6 kerbals on the surface during the second window. But versatility wise a second tug might be useful. So I'm gonna see if I can manage with a single tug and that same hard return burn after delivery. If that works on the second window I might score above 250K if all goes well

(Jep, that'll work!)

Edited January 20, 2019 by hoioh
tested the setup to see if it works

[hoioh]

@jinnantonix might I present to you, good sir, in honor of the valiant efforts put forth in conquering the red sands of Duna using little green men, your personal badge!

The badge is unique and represents your great personal efforts as well as the exact level of aptitude shown in the manner by which you have completed your assignment.

Stand proud and wear this badge of honor!

[jinnantonix]

 

Quote

It checks out.. congratulations!

Thanks @Death Engineering, and thanks for running this excellent challenge.

Quote

Stand proud and wear this badge of honor!

Thanks @hoioh.  I will.  

And I will watch with interest as other challengers hone in on the target I have set.  Good luck all.  We need more Kerbals on Duna!

[hoioh]

Well, that doesn't work:

 

[jinnantonix]

LOL, didn't that happen in Interstellar (except there was a happy ending).

 

[hoioh]

5 hours ago, jinnantonix said:

LOL, didn't that happen in Interstellar (except there was a happy ending).

 

Don't know about that, but it meant 3 hours of work down the drain and redoing a lot... currently at the point just before launching SLV2 and 3 towards Duna, one is on it's way and got to crew up the other and send it right after it

[sturmhauke]

So a kraken hit at the moment of docking, is that what I'm looking at? Anyway, oof that sucks.

[hoioh]

11 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

So a kraken hit at the moment of docking, is that what I'm looking at? Anyway, oof that sucks.

Yes, precisely. It's a matter of 'too many parts to do physics on' I've seen it before and I'm sure I'll see it again

[Death Engineering]

On 1/21/2019 at 7:24 AM, hoioh said:

Well, that doesn't work

Yuck.  

Watch those autostruts, they're kraken bait.

[hoioh]

9 minutes ago, Death Engineering said:

Yuck.  

Watch those autostruts, they're kraken bait.

You should see the results without them