[1.3.0] Kerbal Engineer Redux 1.1.3.0 (2017-05-28)

[Padishar]

Then something must have gone wrong with my install when I removed the old version of KER completely and copied across the one from KerbalEngineer-1.0.15.0.zip :/

http://i.imgur.com/ZIWLtnN.png

Sandbox save (not new though), stock Learstar.. here's the output_log.txt, you can see the version of KER it loads is 1.0.15.0.

That's a bit weird because, as far as I can see, the simulation code shouldn't even be running in that situation as you haven't got the KER window open (well, any readouts provided by the simulation). Also, the relevant line of code is definitely commented out in the source. I'll run a test on the actual release version rather than my build this evening if no-one else has before then.

[SpaceCars]

Added: Support KIDS ISP thrust correction.

So should I see a difference in thrust in the VAB when I select atmospheric? I have KIDS installed and Thrust Varies with ISP activated, but I don't see a difference in the VAB. The TWR on the read-out on the launchpad seems correct though.

[Armarnis]

hey, i encounter an returning problem, from time to time the KER buttons just turns black and refuses to respond in any way, is that a known problem or is there a workaround?

[Padishar]

So should I see a difference in thrust in the VAB when I select atmospheric? I have KIDS installed and Thrust Varies with ISP activated, but I don't see a difference in the VAB. The TWR on the read-out on the launchpad seems correct though.

Yes, you should (assuming that the vacuum and sea-level ISPs for the engine are different), and the thrust should also vary as you drag the pressure slider around.

Given that both this and the log spam don't seem to be fixed it sounds like cybutek may have made a mistake when he built the new release version. I meant to check all the various fixes in the 1.0.15.0 release last night but was a bit busy and now I'm at work...

[Falcon Coupe]

I have just noticed two issues (quite possibly related) with the delta v and thrust readouts in the VAB. I play with quite a few parts mods such as Procedural Parts, Novapunch and KW incase they affect things.

The first is that with parallel stages not using fuel lines, even though the center stage has more fuel and burns for longer (actually tested in flight just to be sure), the vessel readout doesnt recognise that the center stage will continue burning after the boosters have been decoupled. As such it gives no delta v, thrust or burn time.

I have also noticed that the readout sometimes wont recognise a standard serial stage as having any delta v and doesnt show any engine related data (same as the first issue). This is with an engine directly attached to the bottom of a tank. I have only been using procedural tanks, and I know the bug happened with a KW engine but I havent done much testing to work out which engines are fine and which have issues.

Thanks in advance for any help, I cant play without this mod!

[Padishar]

I have just noticed two issues (quite possibly related) with the delta v and thrust readouts in the VAB. I play with quite a few parts mods such as Procedural Parts, Novapunch and KW incase they affect things.

The first is that with parallel stages not using fuel lines, even though the center stage has more fuel and burns for longer (actually tested in flight just to be sure), the vessel readout doesnt recognise that the center stage will continue burning after the boosters have been decoupled. As such it gives no delta v, thrust or burn time.

I have also noticed that the readout sometimes wont recognise a standard serial stage as having any delta v and doesnt show any engine related data (same as the first issue). This is with an engine directly attached to the bottom of a tank. I have only been using procedural tanks, and I know the bug happened with a KW engine but I havent done much testing to work out which engines are fine and which have issues.

Thanks in advance for any help, I cant play without this mod!

Thanks for the report but we will either need example .craft files or, at the very least, screenshots of your craft in the VAB with the KER window open in "show all stages" mode and a description of exactly which bits you think are wrong to be able to help...

[MartGonzo]

Thanks for the report but we will either need example .craft files or, at the very least, screenshots of your craft in the VAB with the KER window open in "show all stages" mode and a description of exactly which bits you think are wrong to be able to help...

I'm having a similar problem to Falcon Coupe, but the problem is with fuel lines in a stack

Those stages are missing entirely from the KER report and the delta-v only seems to take into account the topmost fuel tank

It's hard to see here because KW rocketry separators are white too, there are stack separators between the fuel tanks so they can be dropped when empty.

[Padishar]

I'm having a similar problem to Falcon Coupe, but the problem is with fuel lines in a stack

Those stages are missing entirely from the KER report and the delta-v only seems to take into account the topmost fuel tank

It's hard to see here because KW rocketry separators are white too, there are stack separators between the fuel tanks so they can be dropped when empty.

http://i.imgur.com/XMRG51s.jpg

[MartGonzo]

I can't tell enough about the structure of your vessel from the screenshot. I would probably have to take a look at your craft while running a debugging build of KER so I can see what is preventing the staging simulation from firing the stages that just drop empty tanks. Can you upload the craft (and a full list of all part mods used in it)?

EDIT - never mind, not sure what I did but after reverting back to the VAB the engineer is showing the right dV and all the stages

thanks for your help Padishar

Edited February 12, 2015 by MartGonzo

[Falcon Coupe]

Thanks for the report but we will either need example .craft files or, at the very least, screenshots of your craft in the VAB with the KER window open in "show all stages" mode and a description of exactly which bits you think are wrong to be able to help...

Yep I'll see what I can do, may be a day or so before I can though so I thought I'd give you a heads up. I'll also see if anything changes when I open up the game again like MartGonzo

[cybutek]

Version 1.0.15.2 is now available! - Get it here!

Padishar's Fixes:

Fixed: Calculation of per-stage resource mass.

Yes 1.0.15.1 was skipped. This was just a re-build until I noticed Padishar had another fix to pull

Sorry for the previous build error in 1.0.15.0. It was a silly oversight on my part

[Falcon Coupe]

Thanks for the report but we will either need example .craft files or, at the very least, screenshots of your craft in the VAB with the KER window open in "show all stages" mode and a description of exactly which bits you think are wrong to be able to help...

I did update to the new version of engineer but the issues are still there.

I do have screenshots now to explain.

First up: Any engine attached to the procedural tank shows no ISP, delta v or burn time (stage 3). I think the zero parts, cost and mass is correct though as the tank doesnt have a decoupler.

This Soyuz inspired lifter shows no ISP, thrust, TWR, delta v or burn time in the stage after the boosters (they do have engines, they are just covered up) have been jettisoned (stage 4), even though there is more fuel left in the center stage (no fuel lines).

I hope this helps, let me know if you need anything else.

[NikoKun]

I wonder why this mod and Outer Planets Mod are incompatible? (supposedly together they cause a kraken bug?) Or if there is anyway for either mod to fix that.. :/

[Padishar]

I did update to the new version of engineer but the issues are still there.

I do have screenshots now to explain.

First up: Any engine attached to the procedural tank shows no ISP, delta v or burn time (stage 3). I think the zero parts, cost and mass is correct though as the tank doesnt have a decoupler.

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg496/forsazh106/screenshot137_zps75c79fd6.png

This Soyuz inspired lifter shows no ISP, thrust, TWR, delta v or burn time in the stage after the boosters (they do have engines, they are just covered up) have been jettisoned (stage 4), even though there is more fuel left in the center stage (no fuel lines).

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg496/forsazh106/screenshot138_zps7c7647b8.png

I hope this helps, let me know if you need anything else.

Your first case is simply due to the lack of a decoupler. There is nothing to tell KER when the second stage should be fired as firing it doesn't decouple the empty tank and engine so KER simulates it as if it fires the next stage immediately.

I'm not sure what is going on with the second one from a quick look but I'll have a bit more of a think about it later this evening and let you know...

I wonder why this mod and Outer Planets Mod are incompatible? (supposedly together they cause a kraken bug?) Or if there is anyway for either mod to fix that.. :/

You will have to give us a bit more to go on that that. E.g. an output_log.txt file (or player.log) from a run where this supposed kraken bug happens...

[Leszek]

I'm not sure what is going on with the second one from a quick look but I'll have a bit more of a think about it later this evening and let you know...

I came here to see if there was an answer for this same bug. I should have made a screenshot in case it wasn't a known bug but oh well, if needed I will post one later. I have noticed this same issue on many ships. If you make Onion staged ships it activates often. I am not sure what exactly the trigger is since not every onion staged ship shows this behavior. In general though I know that you need:

1: To have onion staged engines.

2: The boosters have to light up at the same time as the core stage.

To complicate things, you can adjust the thrust limiter of the various stages to find how long the boosters burn. First you have to set it up so that the center stage will burn out first if at full throttle, then by adjusting the limit of the center stage you can divine the rest. The burn time will go down as you increase the center stage throttle limiter and then stop changing as you hit the burn time of the boosters. Somewhere internally KER knows what is going on, it just doesn't show the core as a separate stage.

Edit: Decided to add screenshot anyway since I am already in KSP.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Leszek

[Padishar]

I came here to see if there was an answer for this same bug. I should have made a screenshot in case it wasn't a known bug but oh well, if needed I will post one later. I have noticed this same issue on many ships. If you make Onion staged ships it activates often. I am not sure what exactly the trigger is since not every onion staged ship shows this behavior. In general though I know that you need:

1: To have onion staged engines.

2: The boosters have to light up at the same time as the core stage.

To complicate things, you can adjust the thrust limiter of the various stages to find how long the boosters burn. First you have to set it up so that the center stage will burn out first if at full throttle, then by adjusting the limit of the center stage you can divine the rest. The burn time will go down as you increase the center stage throttle limiter and then stop changing as you hit the burn time of the boosters. Somewhere internally KER knows what is going on, it just doesn't show the core as a separate stage.

An example (stock, preferably) craft file where this goes wrong would be very helpful. As for the poster above, he explicitly says there are no fuel lines so this is not onion staging. I will probably need to see the craft file for that one too as I can't tell enough about what is going on from the screenshot...

There used to be a bug where having other resources (e.g. a monoprop tank) on a stage that should be dropped would cause the simulation to not fire the next stage until all active engines had stopped burning. This issue was resolved for resources that aren't being burnt by the current stage but it can still be seen if you have a tank containing one of the resources that is being burnt but isolated from the engines so it can't be (the same problem was also seen when attaching sepratrons to solid rocket boosters but it was also specifically fixed for solid fuel).

[Leszek]

An example (stock, preferably) craft file where this goes wrong would be very helpful. As for the poster above, he explicitly says there are no fuel lines so this is not onion staging. I will probably need to see the craft file for that one too as I can't tell enough about what is going on from the screenshot...

There used to be a bug where having other resources (e.g. a monoprop tank) on a stage that should be dropped would cause the simulation to not fire the next stage until all active engines had stopped burning. This issue was resolved for resources that aren't being burnt by the current stage but it can still be seen if you have a tank containing one of the resources that is being burnt but isolated from the engines so it can't be (the same problem was also seen when attaching sepratrons to solid rocket boosters but it was also specifically fixed for solid fuel).

Onion staging doesn't have fuel lines. Unless I am mistaken, if it did have fuel lines it would be asparagus staging. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So if I understand correctly, in the screenshot (I edited the last post while you were responding.) I posted, there are sepatrons under the fairings of the boosters. When I separate the boosters the fairings fly off and the seps fire. Since the boosters as liquid fueled and not solids, the sepatrons are causing the issue?

[Padishar]

Onion staging doesn't have fuel lines. Unless I am mistaken, if it did have fuel lines it would be asparagus staging. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So if I understand correctly, in the screenshot (I edited the last post while you were responding.) I posted, there are sepatrons under the fairings of the boosters. When I separate the boosters the fairings fly off and the seps fire. Since the boosters as liquid fueled and not solids, the sepatrons are causing the issue?

No, it is only unburnt fuel of a type that is being burnt by the current stage that should cause a problem and sepratrons have been explicitly ignored so attaching them to solid boosters should simulate correctly.

Your picture doesn't work (direct link to a private dropbox file) so I can't really make any judgement about it...

[Leszek]

Lets try this then: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lmslcxr4xo5nku4/screenshot24.png?dl=0

Stage 10 is the LES. If I move that stage around it has no effect. The top of the screenshot is the next stage after the issue, after that stage we have an Apollo style lifter. There are lots of Monoprop and other resources up there that are on the other side of a decoupler.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Leszek

[NikoKun]

You will have to give us a bit more to go on that that. E.g. an output_log.txt file (or player.log) from a run where this supposed kraken bug happens...

Oh, sorry, I haven't actually replicated the bug yet myself.. Kinda afraid to try.. I just noticed that Outer Planets Mod has this in it's main post, under Incompatible Mods: "-Kerbal Engineer Redux: Causes a NaN Kraken bug for some reason. Avoid using OPM with this for now. If you can't work without it, saving your game using quicksave before quitting and reloading that quicksave upon startup will prevent the major problems"

I can't imagine why this supposedly happens.. I guess I'll try it on an isolated save file, later, if possible. :/

[Padishar]

Lets try this then: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lmslcxr4xo5nku4/screenshot24.png?dl=0

Stage 10 is the LES. If I move that stage around it has no effect. The top of the screenshot is the next stage after the issue, after that stage we have an Apollo style lifter. There are lots of Monoprop and other resources up there that are on the other side of a decoupler.

What are all the radial decouplers in stages 9 and 8 for? I presume that 2 of the ones in stage 9 are for the boosters but can't see the rest. Where is the LES on the vessel and where is the root part? Can you upload the craft and give me a list of mods (it would be much easier)?

[Leszek]

What are all the radial decouplers in stages 9 and 8 for? I presume that 2 of the ones in stage 9 are for the boosters but can't see the rest. Where is the LES on the vessel and where is the root part? Can you upload the craft and give me a list of mods (it would be much easier)?

I will get that craft file when I can. In the mean time:

Stage 10: LES, is attached directly to the command pod, root node at the top. When it activates via staging it decouples and fires its rockets. (It is from Tantares but it operates like the FASA ones.)

Stage 9: First pair is radial decoupler for the boosters. Then 2 pairs of hidden Sepatrons. Then 2 Pairs of fairings. The fairings are the nosecones on top of the boosters. They jettison to reveal the sepatrons.

Stage 8: 2 pair of farings. They are higher up in the stack and cover the lander and service modules.

Craft file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8jh175umd1fovrq/Apollo%202.craft?dl=0

Mods:

KW Rocketry: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/51037-0-25-KW-Rocketry-v2-6d2-Available-0-25-Compatibility!-16-10-2014

Tantares (Just the base not the LV pack): http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/81537-0-90-Tantares-Stockalike-Soyuz-and-MIR-14-1-2-Crew-1-25m-Pod-Revamp-3!

K-P0110: http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/221052-k-p0110

Procedural Fairings: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/39512-0-90-Procedural-Fairings-3-11-manual-shape-controls-%28December-17%29

Remote Tech: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/83305-0-90-0-RemoteTech-v1-6-3-2015-02-06

I don't know that this next mod matters but just in case:

Kerbal Joint Reinforcment: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55657-0-90-Kerbal-Joint-Reinforcement-v3-1-1-1-15-15

Few: Sorry if I am being a bit of pain, I figured this would already be figured out by other people before now and wasn't really prepared to do a full bug report. KER is an awesome mod and I can't really play without it.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Leszek
Added remote tech, forgot about that one.

[Leszek]

I have made a simpler one, I will post in a minute, I got rid of everything but the KW parts and greatly simplified the ship while keeping the issue.

Screenshot: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o9u8uya0r6qs058/screenshot26.png?dl=0

Craft file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8v1ezg2q28jcq2i/Apollo%20test.craft?dl=0

Edited February 14, 2015 by Leszek

[Padishar]

I have made a simpler one, I will post in a minute, I got rid of everything but the KW parts and greatly simplified the ship while keeping the issue.

Screenshot: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o9u8uya0r6qs058/screenshot26.png?dl=0

Craft file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8v1ezg2q28jcq2i/Apollo%20test.craft?dl=0

Excellent, thanks. That will make it very much easier...

[Gribbleshnibit8]

You will have to give us a bit more to go on that that. E.g. an output_log.txt file (or player.log) from a run where this supposed kraken bug happens...

Two crash logs as a result of a NaN error on launch of vessels with KER and Outer Planets Mod installed (and lots of others but removing KER let me play for 20 mins launching ships over and over with no issues)

Error resulted during a career save. I can attempt to provide a save and associated game log with the same error later today (Saturday 14).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5493415/KSP%20Crash%20Logs.7z

I really want this one to be solved. I installed KER because MechJeb wasn't reporting DV properly with Near Future radial tanks, and KER does. Since the point of the save was to attempt to make it to OPM planets using Near Future parts, gotta get this solved.