[KSP 1.8 - 1.12+] - Probes Before Crew [PBC] Version 2.93

Shizen · January 9, 2019

18 hours ago, GerAseR said:

Maybe you change your version typo, if you go for it like it is we will be around PBC 40.9 in June (added mod maybe 1.7.1, 1.7.2, .... and the contract pack would be a move to 2.0... dont know, just thinking about the high numbers)
The missing history update was a game breaker or "challenge" for me, a few rockets i cant use now because of the parts moving (not so bad) and active contracts i dont know yet how to reach the goals to complete, not sure if it was PBC or missing hiytory itself who did that useless moving (hadn´t installed it before)

May I suggest your first numbers be the ksp version e.g. 1.6 or 1.6.0 and your last number be the your release number for that ksp version. e.g 1.6.7 or 1.6.0.7

_Zee · January 9, 2019

20 hours ago, GerAseR said:

/snip
Maybe you change your version typo, if you go for it like it is we will be around PBC 40.9 in June
[...]

1 hour ago, Shizen said:

May I suggest your first numbers be the ksp version e.g. 1.6 or 1.6.0 and your last number be the your release number for that ksp version. e.g 1.6.7 or 1.6.0.7

Hahaha I think you both overestimate how long I can sustain pumping out one or more mod support updates a day. :sticktongue:

Pand5461 · January 9, 2019

7 hours ago, lordcirth said:

For what it's worth, I've used KER and kOS partless for ages, just to keep craft files compatible. kOS for All does this, and KER has a setting.

Yes, if all one wants is to just use kOS. But this is avoiding the kOS support problem in this very mod, not solving it.

4 hours ago, _Zee said:

the parts were placed based on where the original had them generally grouped on the tree

I think the initial balancing was to put first kOS processors into the same node as the first probe (not sure, haven't played with a crew-first tech tree for ages). UbM certainly had basic kOS processors right from the start.

From the looks of the tech tree, my opinion is that kOS parts belong more to the science & electronics subtree.

Here's my rearrangement:

//kOSMachine0m is a deprecated dupe of the KR-2042
@PART[kOSMachine0m]:AFTER[kOS]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
	@TechRequired = unresearcheable
	@entryCost = 4500
	@cost = 850
}

@PART[KR-2042]:AFTER[kOS]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
    @TechRequired = start
	@entryCost = 4500
	@cost = 850
}

@PART[kOSMachine1m]:AFTER[kOS]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
	@TechRequired = basicScience
	@entryCost = 6000
	@cost = 1200
}

@PART[kOSMachineRad]:AFTER[kOS]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
    @TechRequired = precisionEngineering
	@entryCost = 10000
	@cost = 2500
}

@PART[KAL9000]:AFTER[kOS]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
    @TechRequired = automation
	@entryCost = 25000
	@cost = 4500
}

Is there an "official" discussion / proposition platform, like a Github repo or something? I have some other rearrangement ideas for stock parts as well, and the forums thread isn't a convenient way to discuss them.

Pie82 · January 9, 2019

16 hours ago, _Zee said:

The HG-5 antenna is the first relay and it appears at T4 in the Basic Science node (45 science points). If you aren't seeing it there then one of your mods might be conflicting with mine. Let me know if you see it there.

You are right - it is. It's been a while since I last played - I forgot the HG-5 was in fact a relay!

_Zee · January 10, 2019

On 1/9/2019 at 12:50 AM, Pand5461 said:

/snip
Is there an "official" discussion / proposition platform, like a Github repo or something?

No I don't use Github, sorry. But I've already shifted the kOS parts again, including moving the 0.6m part to the start node. Thanks a lot for the feedback on that, especially helpful since, like I said I don't use kOS personally.
The changes will show up in the next release.

15 hours ago, Pie82 said:

You are right - it is. It's been a while since I last played - I forgot the HG-5 was in fact a relay!

Happens to the best of us.

Edited January 10, 2019 by _Zee

Muetdhiver · January 10, 2019

Just wanted to say thank you for your mod. I have been looking for a SETI alternative for a while and this is a perfect match.

The spread out science experiments in the tech tree are really good too.

Wackoman6789 · January 10, 2019

Will this mod eventually support Kerbalism?

Rime Pendragon · January 10, 2019

Still can't find this on CKAN...

d4harp · January 10, 2019

2 hours ago, Wackoman6789 said:

Will this mod eventually support Kerbalism?

Kerbalism also adjusts science values (and completely overhauls the way science is handled) so adding optional support without messing up the balance of this mod would be quite difficult

That being said, if a kerbalism patch does happen to be possible, I would appreciate the hell out of it

Edited January 10, 2019 by d4harp

Cruesoe · January 10, 2019

10 minutes ago, d4harp said:

Kerbalism also adjusts science values (and completely overhauls the way science is handled) so adding optional support without messing up the balance of this mod would be quite difficult

That being said, if a kerbalism patch does happen to be possible, I would appreciate the hell out of it

I wouldn't say it completely overhauls the way science is handled, you can store and download science thats all.

I don't think it would be complicated to add the parts to this tree.

_Zee · January 10, 2019

10 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

Just wanted to say thank you for your mod. I have been looking for a SETI alternative for a while and this is a perfect match.

The spread out science experiments in the tech tree are really good too.

Thanks so much for saying that, its really good to hear feedback. Especially when its positive. :sticktongue:

3 hours ago, Wackoman6789 said:

Will this mod eventually support Kerbalism?

Absolutely. Eventually.

2 hours ago, Rime Pendragon said:

Still can't find this on CKAN...

A pull request was posted on my behalf, but apparently my mod won't be accepted until the CTT is updated for 1.6. Don't ask me why but thats the ruling.

I'll be posting a huge update in the next hour or so, stay tuned. :cool:

Edited January 10, 2019 by _Zee

_Zee · January 11, 2019

Version 2.0 released

//// Version 2.0 Changes

*Added Original PBC Contract Pack
Shifted kOS 0.6m to Start Node
Shifted kOS 1.2m one node earlier
Shifted kOS Basic Radial one node earlier
Updated kOS map
Updated Missing History map
-No changes needed for KSP 1.6.1

Apologies if the chart is a bit hard to understand at first, I did my best to make it easy to understand without eating up an entire wall of screenspace. It's really just there for my notes, it will be very intuitive in-game.

The things you should know:

This contract pack is purpose built for this techtree, so I'm not releasing it as a separate mod and I offer no support if you try to use it without PBC.
It is by nature optional, all you need to do to "enable it" is install Contract Configurator by Nightingale. That's it!
As I mentioned in the last release post, some of these contracts will automatically be added to your active list as soon as you meet the conditions to unlock them, and they won't use up contract slots. This will stop happening after you move past "Layer 2" as I call it, so that your active contracts list isn't spammed.
The vanilla tutorial and exploration contracts are disabled when running PBC Contracts, but the mini-milestone rewards are still there albeit tweaked to give much smaller rewards throughout the whole game. They were especially showering us with easy money in the early game, but not anymore!
Contracts will only be cancel-able if there is some way for you to get stuck, for example by landing on a body with a given vessel, and then destroying that vessel when it is needed for the Return to Kerbin parameter. In this case you can cancel the contract, which will immediately make the contract available again and you can try again with a new vessel. Doing this will penalize you roughly half the value of the completed contract, increasing to over double as you move to later stages of the game.
- PLEASE NOTE: Just like my recommendation about Science, I recommend you keep your funds slider at least at 80% if using PBC Contracts. The economy has been overhauled and made much more challenging.
  You WILL feel the difference between 100% > 90% > 80%. Consider those steps, Easy, Standard, Hard in that order.

Not all bodies have interesting and unique flavor-text, but I did my best where I could. As I've mentioned before, I'm not a writer haha! I'll gladly accept contributions for flavor-text for specific contract parameters, and as a reminder I'm accepting the same for the Telemetry Reports.

My optional, only if you care, verbose summary of the decision process for this contract pack, as is tradition :

Spoiler

- - - The PBC techtree has been designed to more-or-less force you to launch probes to any given celestial body before you can send crew, at least up to the mid-game if not beyond.
The PBC contract tree, however, tracks Probe Firsts and Crewed Firsts separately and independently. In this contract pack there exist "Layer Locks", such as (Mun & Minmus) before (Duna & Eve) before (etc.), but Probes and Crew progress are separate. This means you aren't pigeon-holed into writing a single "history". If your agency happens to be doing well and is capable of sending Crewed missions to Duna before Probes, then that's fantastic! and you should receive the due acknowledgement now without being forced to take necessarily arbitrary steps first. If, on the other hand, your agency is starved of Science due to some early career mishap or some such thing, then you'll be naturally forced to send Probes before Crew. (This is all assuming you're using a Life Support mod, which you are, right?)

The point is your natural pace of progression dictates the order in which you receive rewards, not the other way around. Long Live Gameplay!

- - - I'll also point out that the number of steps between "First Visit" and "Planet Complete" has been simplified as compared to vanilla. This is a case where excess granularity was actually a bad thing, it just makes things tedious. Do we really need to separate every possible stage of descent to understand all the steps necessary to complete a landing? I say no. This way is more concise and meaningful.

While this release is technically savegame compatible, (I suppose you could refresh your contracts with Alt-F12), I would really recommend starting a new campaign if you're going to use my contract pack. It reshapes the economy of the game from the very start, and you'll have to re-visit planets you've already been too anyways ( well that is unless you want to use Alt-F12 and complete the contracts up to your current point). Don't say I never gave you options! :sticktongue:

And finally, with the release of the Telemetry Report for Probe Cores a few releases ago, and the added Science my Contract pack awards throughout the whole game; I'm adjusting my recommended minimum for your science slider to 70%. If you go lower it means you're a hardcore pro or something. :cool: :sticktongue:

I hope you all enjoy it!

Edited November 13, 2019 by _Zee

dylsh · January 11, 2019

Nice! Keep up the great work, we all appreciate it! A shame I leave tomorrow with work for a week.

Qarisma · January 11, 2019

YESSSSS!!!! I have been waiting for a proper contract pack. I have flown a total of 1 manned missions in the last 2 weeks because the default contract packs rarely require it. Here's hoping I will have more reason to risk my kerbals lives and get some use out of all the life support mods I have installed.

Shizen · January 11, 2019

Awesome Zee, too bad kopernicus is out of date. KSP and steam keeps screwing me with the incremental auto updates.

And now i wait.

GerAseR · January 11, 2019

Ohhh nice! Will give it a try later, you were fast with a contract pack

_Zee · January 11, 2019

Version 2.01 released

//// Version 2.01 Changes

Increased funding-rewards for Layer 1 and Layer 2 contracts (hit em with the nerf hammer too hard)
Small typo fix in Layer 3 Contract config

First off, thank you all so much for the kind words. It might not seem like much, but it keeps me motivated.

This is a quick hotfix for the Layer 1 and Layer 2 contract payouts. It seems I hit them with the nerf hammer too hard and they weren't paying enough.
This is save-game compatible with 2.0, but you must follow these steps or you won't see any changes in a current save.

Replace my folder as usual.
Once in game and in save, press Alt+F12, click Contracts > Tools > REGENERATE CURRENT CONTRACTS
This will refresh the price pay-outs but will not reset your progress.

All done, you are now updated!

Edited January 11, 2019 by _Zee

_Zee · January 11, 2019

Version 2.02 released

//// Version 2.02 Changes

25% increase to mini-milestone funding rewards.
100% increase to Layer 1 science rewards.
~250% increase to Layer 1 funding rewards.
~25% increase to Layer 2 funding rewards.

Alright everyone, apologies for this, had to take one more pass on the rewards after getting a longer playtest in. You should now be able to actually purchase building upgrades.

Also as a PSA:
Apparently this has been known for at least 3 years, but its news to me and it was really messing up my attempts to properly balance the early game. The Funding Penalties slider that you set when making a new game is ATTACHED to the cost of upgrading buildings. It makes zero sense and I can only image its an oversight and not intentional, but its true. So DO NOT increase it past 100%. Game will be unplayable if you do.

This is save-game compatible with 2.0 and 2.0.1, but you must follow these steps or you won't see any changes in a current save.

Replace my folder as usual.
Once in game and in save, press Alt+F12, click Contracts > Tools > REGENERATE CURRENT CONTRACTS
This will refresh the price pay-outs but will not reset your progress.

Edited January 11, 2019 by _Zee

wlr2678 · January 12, 2019

8 hours ago, _Zee said:
Version 2.01 released
//// Version 2.01 Changes

Increased funding-rewards for Layer 1 and Layer 2 contracts (hit em with the nerf hammer too hard)
Small typo fix in Layer 3 Contract config
First off, thank you all so much for the kind words. It might not seem like much, but it keeps me motivated.

This is a quick hotfix for the Layer 1 and Layer 2 contract payouts. It seems I hit them with the nerf hammer too hard and they weren't paying enough.
This is save-game compatible with 2.0, but you must follow these steps or you won't see any changes in a current save.

Replace my folder as usual.
Once in game and in save, press Alt+F12, click Contracts > Tools > REGENERATE CURRENT CONTRACTS
This will refresh the price pay-outs but will not reset your progress.

All done, you are now updated!

Thanks for providing instructions on how to make the contract pack save-compatible! Was about to ask this, but now it looks like the problem is solved!

theonegalen · January 12, 2019

11 hours ago, _Zee said:

Apparently this has been known for at least 3 years, but its news to me and it was really messing up my attempts to properly balance the early game. The Funding Penalties slider that you set when making a new game is ATTACHED to the cost of upgrading buildings. It makes zero sense and I can only image its an oversight and not intentional, but its true. So DO NOT increase it past 100%. Game will be unplayable if you do.

I actually figured that was the major purpose of that slider, and I usually set it around 150%.

_Zee · January 12, 2019

2 hours ago, theonegalen said:

I actually figured that was the major purpose of that slider, and I usually set it around 150%.

It was driving me insane. :confused: The KSP presets for Easy > Hard all move it around and it was never a slider I paid any attention to. I wonder if there's a way to relabel the slider....

Anyways, 150% will be tough, but probably do-able.

Personally I have my current playtest settings at 70% Science, 80% Funding, and 100% Funding Penalties and it has been really challenging but enjoyable.
Each step in the contract pack has been a difficult but achievable puzzle.

Edited January 12, 2019 by _Zee

Shizen · January 12, 2019

Would this make the game financially impossible, if i chose to play in way that requires me to pay to unlock parts after i research them?

_Zee · January 12, 2019

1 hour ago, Shizen said:

Would this make the game financially impossible, if i chose to play in way that requires me to pay to unlock parts after i research them?

Sorry, are you asking if you can play with entry costs turned on? If so, then absolutely, its the only way I play KSP personally.

epideath · January 12, 2019

Hey Zee..Thanks so much for this mod. I was also looking for something like SETI, I like a more realistic approach and progression. I was going to ask about Kerbalism, but I see that its on your list :-) , as I am loving that mod also. Looking forward to future modules.

I just wanted to say I just started using Mandatory RCS. I made a patch to put some basic parts a little earlier, than you have them currently. To allow for some basic control early on. It is a pretty small mod so I don't think that there is much else needed. But here is my patch. Hopefully you find it useful.

Thanks for the great work.

/////////// Mandatory RCS and RCS Parts

@PART[RCS_025T_1xfront]:AFTER[MandatoryRCSPartPack]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
	@TechRequired = stability
}

@PART[radialRCSTank|linearRcs]:AFTER[MandatoryRCS]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]
{
    @TechRequired = stability
}

_Zee · January 12, 2019

Updated OP with a visual guide for recommended settings.

Please feel free to post what settings you are using for your sliders, and how you feel it has set the pace of your game. Very curious to know how others play!

As I mentioned above, I use:
70% Science
80% Funds
90% Rep
100% Building Costs

Edited January 12, 2019 by _Zee

[KSP 1.8 - 1.12+] - Probes Before Crew [PBC] Version 2.93

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