Air Superiority Fighter Competition Unlimited [ON HOLD]

[panzerknoef]

Due to various reasons we are currently unable to do any further battles. For that reason, this thread is currently on hold until that situation changes. 

 

This thread is a continuation of the Air Superiority Fighter Competiton Unlimited by @Box of Stardust (who's still co-owner of this thread)

Blablabla there used to be something about war. Let's be honest though, we don't need a reason to build fighters, we do it for the fun of it!

This is probably the most rigorous BDA dogfighting competition out there, with the loosest rule set promoting maximizing combat aircraft potential. We only care about one thing: to build the most superior dogfighter. Every battle (Which can be run by me, but I'm encouraging everyone to run their own battles to speed queues and such up) is closely examined to be able to identify and rate a fighter's performance with intricate breakdowns. If you're willing, you'll become very familiar with how BDA works and how the AI functions, as well as its various quirks, and how to apply such knowledge to dominate most other BDA competitions. So this is like Top Gun, for BDA.

In @Box of Stardust's opinion, only 25% of the actual construction makes a good BDA fighter. 30% is the weapons carried and how they are used, and 45% is the AI pilot settings. Are you prepared to master all 3 of them?

 

AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER COMPETITION

UNLIMITED

VIEW THE LEADERBOARD, AIRCRAFT RATINGS, & SUBMISSION QUEUE

(Offsite leaderboard to allow easy editing by everyone at all times)

we've also got a

discord server

 

 

This is a King of the Hill style challenge, but with changes, making it more of a "Hill or Valley" style. Two tiers of aircraft will be maintained, the 'hill' and the 'valley'. General participant entries will always start fighting against the #6, should they fail to beat this one, they will fight the #10 instead. Fail again and you will simply not make the leaderboard. On the other hand, if you manage to defeat the #6, you will continue testing upwards against the tier 1 board. Beat the #10 and you will continue testing upwards against the tier 2 board. Veteran participants will have their entries start their test run against the Tier 1 #5, following the same rules.

The competition has rolling admission with no deadline for submissions.

Fights will be conducted on KSP 1.6.x with BDAc 1.2.x. Privately testing your aircraft against other competitors in AI only dogfights is not only allowed but highly encouraged.

Aircraft built in earlier version of KSP and BDAc will not compete since they probably won't perform at their best thanks to AI and weaponry updates. (if you've got older aircraft, basically just run them in the current environment and tweak them if necessary, then submit)

RULES OF AIRCRAFT CONSTRUCTION

1. Construction

All dogfights are run by BDAC AI. This means all actions must be automated, excluding initial start-up staging (however, this can be automated as well by binding engine start to SAS) and any drop tank unlocking (due to the programming of BD Modular Missile Manager); drop tanks must be programmed with Modular Missile Manager

There is a maximum 100 part count and that's it.

Armor settings (per part) must be at default (0). Armor plating (the BDA part) is not allowed since it gives a massive advantage with no serious disadvantages to hold it back.

Once you have submitted an aircraft, you may modify the file in KerbalX until the first battle is run. No further modifications can be made after that time. You are welcome to remove aircraft before testing. Once an aircraft has made roster, it cannot be removed from the roster by administrative action and will continue to test, for fairness to other competitors.

Aircraft designers are solely responsible for the modification of their aircraft. Do not ask judges to modify your aircraft for you. (However, exceptions are made for minor issues related to BDA quirks, requiring modifications that change nothing on how the aircraft performs, but just fixes any problems that might be caused by BDA quirks.)

You are welcome to submit a design as many times as you like, if you modify it. Please note variants (fighter 2, fighter 2a, fighter mkII, fighter mark 2, fighter "somewordshere", fighter AUSF B, etc.). They will be subjected to the Replacement Rule if applicable (see Rules of the Leaderboard).

2. Mods

BDA 1.2 for KSP 1.7.2 is the current competition environment.

In the interest in allowing newer designers to be competitive, all aircraft must be modified solely within KSP. Any text editing is strictly prohibited.

EditorExtensionsRedux is highly recommended for greater control over aircraft construction. Also to be able to toggle 'All Rigid' and 'All Autostruts' to reduce need for struts and general wobbliness.

The mod list for this competition is generally open-ended, however, it is preferred to keep mod count to a minimum. We highly recommend Airplane Plus, though it is not a required mod. TweakScale is also permitted. Ask first if you are using a mod outside of our common list, especially parts that include new weapons, shields or armor.

Mods that contain parts that introduce tactical advantages, such as radar invisibility, may be permitted if part of a larger package, but said parts are not.

Judges may ask for part removal based around mods that do not serve a combat purpose, or are not usable by BDAc. This includes Infernal Robotics, Attachment systems, and ejection seat modifications.

If you wish to be a judge WorldStablizer is required.

3. Weapons

At no point can more aircraft be present on the tracker in BD Armory than what was originally placed on the runway; i.e., no parasite aircraft.

The following weapons are permitted:

-Any fixed BD Armory weapons
-Any fixed Aviator Arsenal weapons
-The 105mm howitzer and Abrams turret from BD Armory (for kicks)

The following weapons are banned:
-Turrets in BD Armory not mentioned above (USAF laser, .50 cal turret, Millenium turret, Goalkeeper CIWS, etc) and Aviator Arsenal (b-17 turret)

- HEKV missile. 
-any mods not mentioned here that pertain to weapons (ask first)

(Tenuous) There is no weapon limit.

RULES OF ENGAGEMENT

Fighters will begin in a standard formation arrangement on starting runways at combat locations. (Frontmost left center line, Middile right edge line, Rear left edge line). Battles are currently conducted by having start points at the KSC runway and the island runway.

Fighters will sortie out against each other in missions of 3v3 maximum. There is a maximum of 1-plane-count difference; 1v3 sorties are not valid, rendering defeat for the team with only 1 aircraft left availble.

Battles (defined as the full series of sorties between two aircraft types) are fought until sufficient depletion of one team's aircraft reserves, with victory awarded to the team with more remaining reserve aircraft.

A unit will begin its combat debut with 7 aircraft in reserve. This reserve number will be affected by defeats or margins of victory after every sortie.

Reinforcements are granted after every sortie based on amount of enemy aircraft killed, on a 1-to-2 basis; 1 additional reserve aircraft is granted for every 2 killed opposing aircraft. Reinforcements can only be granted to replace lost aircraft, with the maximum reserve amount remaining at 7.

Surviving aircraft are not subtracted from the reserve. Surviving aircraft are defined as flyable by the BD AI in a stable manner, and retain some wing surfaces and an engine. Fuel is not necessary.

If aircraft battle for 5 sorties with no apparent victor, a sixth, final 5v5 sortie will decide the results.

Filming is conducted as follows:

Sortie #1 filmed from neutral ground observer (location beacon); this reduces the effect of the game physics by staying in a neutral frame of reference (explanation here) essentially creating an unbiased battle.

Sortie #2 filmed from offense team; this is for observing the combat performance of the up-and-coming craft, against an opponent that has already been observed and analyzed.

Sortie #3 filmed from defense team; switching sides for fairness, as well as observing combat performance of this craft versus a new opponent.

Sortie #4 switches back to offense team, and etc.

RULES OF THE LEADERBOARD

Veteran competitors are those who have achieved Tier 1 Rank 3 at least twice, or achieved Rank 2 or Rank 1.

The Tier 1 Leaderboard is open to anyone. It is called the Veteran Leaderboard due to the high-competitiveness of the aircraft in this leaderboard.

The Tier 2 Leaderboard is also open to anyone, but imposes restrictions on Veterans. A Veteran may not place in this board if at least 2 spots are held in Tier 1. A Veteran aircraft that has placed in Tier 1 cannot drop down into Tier 2 if pushed downwards after a defeat; it will be removed from the active leaderboards.

Replacement Rule: This rule concerns an aircraft variant of an aircraft already placed on the leaderboard. Should these aircraft battle each other, the winning variant remains on the leaderboard. If the winning variant is the newer aircraft, it will continue testing against If the winning variant is the older aircraft, the newer aircraft will not place and its battle testing ends.

Re-Advancement Rule: This rule permits a settled aircraft on the leaderboard to restart its advancement upwards upon defending its position by the number of times it is placed (e.g., #5 defended 5 times). The competitor may choose to challenge the next-placed aircraft. The battles conducted will be based on a 12-plane reserve flying 5v5 sorties, minimum of 3 required to sortie, no reinforcements granted. If the challenging plane is victorious, it will continue its climb up the leaderboard according to standard Rules of Engagement.

Edited May 26, 2020 by panzerknoef

[Rocket_man1234]

You need to lock the google doc leader board before someone ruins it. you can put it on view only for visitors.

[panzerknoef]

3 hours ago, Rocket_man1234 said:

You need to lock the google doc leader board before someone ruins it. you can put it on view only for visitors.

I trust the people around here enough not to do that tbh, but just in case I've got a locked copy around so I can revert back if it does go wrong. 

It's intentionally open so people who do their own battles can update it for themselves as well. 

[Rocket_man1234]

Here is my entry https://kerbalx.com/Rocket_man1234/Viper-11

Surprisingly the Howitzer is OP

[panzerknoef]

Alrighty, the first battle of the reboot is a fact! 

Videos: 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Analysis:

Spoiler

As far as the final result goes, there isn't really a surprise. The Zircon however did have some issues with the Viper at first, but it recovered quickly and managed a substantial victory. The Viper-11 suffers from the issues that we have seen before with crafts of its size in the previous iteration of this competition. The sheer size makes it a very easy target to hit with missiles, and even though the aircraft has good durability, it just can't manage to stay alive against the endless barrage which the Zircon was capable of throwing at it.

The Viper's maneuverability wasn't exactly great, in fact, it was pretty average for an aircraft of its size. However, it didn't carry the necessary armament to really become a threat. Being armed with just 4 AIM-120's and 2 AIM-9's, it actually ran out of missiles pretty quickly. The Zircon, being a pretty small aircraft, didn't have too many issues avoiding the AIM-120's and there simply weren't enough AIM-9's to really pose a significant threat. The Viper is only equipped with 2 vulcans, not that it really mattered because the aircraft wasn't maneuverable enough to shine in the dogfight role. I don't think I've ever seen the rear facing howitzer fire at all, so that's probably quite a waste of mass. All in all the Viper really doesn't excel at anything. It's not fast enough to disengage from the Zircons, it doesn't have the firepower to get them in a powerful strike, and it doesn't have the maneuverability to dogfight. 

Not much can be said about the Zircons with regards to this battle, they weren't really pushed to their limits enough to make any conclusions. They did lose 2 aircraft in the first round, one of which died because of a ramming incident with the final Viper, the other one just randomly crashed into the ocean without any threat. The second round saw one actually getting taken down by a missile, but the other ones didn't take any hits at all, and the third round was pretty much a dream performance, but of course, they did outnumber the Vipers from the start. My craft does seem to do what it has been designed to do, a mostly missiles based fighter with great dogfighting abilities as well. Its strategy seems to mostly be firing a set of missiles, going in for a merge for a little bit, then disengaging, turning around and reengaging with missiles until it runs out of those, sometimes they just stick to the other crafts tail until they can shoot them down.

I would like to apologize for the lag on the videos, my pc was somewhat struggling with KSP today, I got it pretty much fixed for the last round though, hope y'all are satisfied with the results!

[sturmhauke]

I'll probably enter this soon. I did ok in BAD-T IV, but I just could not figure out how to make a stable plane for Juno Ace. I know it has something to do with FAR and transonic speeds, but I just can't wrap my head around it.

[panzerknoef]

3 hours ago, sturmhauke said:

I'll probably enter this soon. I did ok in BAD-T IV, but I just could not figure out how to make a stable plane for Juno Ace. I know it has something to do with FAR and transonic speeds, but I just can't wrap my head around it.

Thankfully there's no FAR involved here! Looking forward to your submission already! 

[Rocket_man1234]

I would like a rematch, the howitzer was not tied to the same group as the Vulcans and that caused the howitzer to be ignored by the AI https://imgur.com/a/BaqG8o0

Edited February 15, 2019 by Rocket_man1234

[panzerknoef]

5 hours ago, Rocket_man1234 said:

I would like a rematch, the howitzer was not tied to the same group as the Vulcans and that caused the howitzer to be ignored by the AI https://imgur.com/a/BaqG8o0

That's a valid reason for a rematch, I'll get it done asap 

[Rocket_man1234]

18 hours ago, panzerknoef said:

That's a valid reason for a rematch, I'll get it done asap 

Thank you, it probably won't change much but its worth a try!

[panzerknoef]

On 2/16/2019 at 1:45 AM, Rocket_man1234 said:

Thank you, it probably won't change much but its worth a try!

Sorry about the delay on the rematch, my pc has been acting up and I can't run anything with a heavy part count atm... I'll still do it as soon as I get the issue resolved (which hopefully will be asap) I was able to fly your aircraft already with the adjusted settings and noted that I couldn't actually select the howitzer at all, it kept going back to "none" whenever I clicked on it. So I'm not sure if the howitzer would work anyway.

 

Edit, did manage to run battles with the fix you proposed, still didn't see the howitzer fire, results for the Viper were even worse than in round 1. Do you even want to see the footage? 

Edited February 19, 2019 by panzerknoef

[Rocket_man1234]

6 hours ago, panzerknoef said:

still didn't see the howitzer fire

you shouldn't be able to select the howitzer alone, it should select the hidden Vulcan and the howitzer at the same time.

  

[panzerknoef]

6 hours ago, Rocket_man1234 said:

you shouldn't be able to select the howitzer alone, it should select the hidden Vulcan and the howitzer at the same time.

  

Yup, it was set up that way, both were in the same weapons group as you said had to happen, they didn't show up individually in the weapons manager either. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by panzerknoef

[RecyclingBin]

Can we submit more than 1 plane? Because I have two sitting here that BDAI seems to like...

[Rocket_man1234]

15 hours ago, panzerknoef said:

Yup, it was set up that way, both were in the same weapons group as you said had to happen, they didn't show up individually in the weapons manager either. 

Hmmmmm idk, updated the plane on Kerbal X mabe that. Also thanks for dealing with this whole thing

 

[panzerknoef]

1 hour ago, RecyclingBin said:

Can we submit more than 1 plane? Because I have two sitting here that BDAI seems to like...

as many as you like!

 

16 minutes ago, Rocket_man1234 said:

Hmmmmm idk, updated the plane on Kerbal X mabe that. Also thanks for dealing with this whole thing

 

I'll check it out, if anything has actually changed I'll give it another round of battles. You're welcome btw, problems are there to be solved

[RecyclingBin]

Submission #1:

(There will be 1 or two more I will upload them soon)

The Simmons Engineering S-F10 Falcon

The Mk. II Fighter Series from Simmons Engineering

View the craft here https://kerbalx.com/RecyclingBin/S-F10-Falcon-Mk-II-Fighter-Series

Spoiler

Edited February 21, 2019 by RecyclingBin

[panzerknoef]

@RecyclingBin

Another manned aircraft, a trend I was not expecting 

Edited February 21, 2019 by panzerknoef

[hoioh]

I would like to join in the fun and submit this plane:

https://kerbalx.com/hoioh/SK-22-MK-2

[panzerknoef]

58 minutes ago, hoioh said:

I would like to join in the fun and submit this plane:

https://kerbalx.com/hoioh/SK-22-MK-2

That is one fancy looking drone! Seems to be using tweakscale I guess? 

[hoioh]

Just now, panzerknoef said:

That is one fancy looking drone! Seems to be using tweakscale I guess? 

Yeah, there's a couple scaled parts in there (about 50% or so) didn't scale engines or weapons though, mostly the intercoolers, air hoppers and some control surfaces

[panzerknoef]

On 2/21/2019 at 2:09 AM, RecyclingBin said:

Submission #1:

(There will be 1 or two more I will upload them soon)

The Simmons Engineering S-F10 Falcon

The Mk. II Fighter Series from Simmons Engineering

View the craft here https://kerbalx.com/RecyclingBin/S-F10-Falcon-Mk-II-Fighter-Series

  Reveal hidden contents

this aircraft of yours has a ton of mods, think you can scale the count down a bit to make it easier for everyone to use? 

 

also, @hoioh, your craft has 101 parts while the max is 100, I know this sounds stupid, but I'm gonna have to ask you to remove one part of the plane. I can also simply remove a single one of the vulcans up front, the choice is yours.

Edited February 24, 2019 by panzerknoef

[hoioh]

2 hours ago, panzerknoef said:

this aircraft of yours has a ton of mods, think you can scale the count down a bit to make it easier for everyone to use? 

 

also, @hoioh, your craft has 101 parts while the max is 100, I know this sounds stupid, but I'm gonna have to ask you to remove one part of the plane. I can also simply remove a single one of the vulcans up front, the choice is yours.

I didn't pay attention to my part count, I'll see what I can miss

It should only be using AP+, tweakscale and BDAc, what else does it mention on your end?

Edited February 24, 2019 by hoioh

[hoioh]

Should be better now, I replaced a part for a scaled stock alternative and removed 2 parts

Come to think or it, if it wants any other mods, those may be dependancies, but there really shouldn't be any

Here's my mod list:

Red is a mod that contains parts

Blue are dependancies, some may not be required

Green are build aids and other things you don't need to have to fly the craft

[hoioh]

And then I finally realized that comment wasn't directed at me