[1.12.5] Restock - Revamping KSP's art (August 28)

[Poodmund]

33 minutes ago, Navyjoker2000 said:

@Nertea, I know  you said no further work is to be done. However, the Commutron 88 antenna always spawns extended even while retracted when launching a vehicle on the runway or launchpad (same issue that solar panel had) It is extended in the VAB/SPH as well even though it is retracted. So we have to extend it, then retract it and then the antenna will go in before launch. Is there anyway you can fix that? Hope it made sense.   

Please see: https://github.com/PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked/issues/965 

[Navyjoker2000]

4 hours ago, Poodmund said:

Please see: https://github.com/PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked/issues/965 

Gotcha. Thank you

[ra4nd0m]

Never wanted to offend anyone.
Please forget about what I said.

Edited September 7, 2021 by ra4nd0m

[Poodmund]

I'd just like to remind, there are 300+ parts revamped/created in this mod. If the main contributors are saying that there is no further content planned then please be grateful that they've made the effort to revamp/create 300+ parts for the game.

These kind of remarks can lead to antipathy for further development.

[Hohmannson]

20 minutes ago, ra4nd0m said:

Thud

You can take revamped Thud and Dart from Ven's Stock Revamp. And remodelled RTG too.

[Krzeszny]

5-meter fuel tanks from NFLV have a white variant, unlike the same parts from RestockPlus.

Conversely, 5-meter decouplers from RS+ have one more variant than those from NFLV.

(By the way, the costs differ a tiny bit.)

Edited September 8, 2021 by Krzeszny

[Infinite_Maelstrom]

Hello,

I'm having an issue with fairings (1.25m specifically), where surface attached parts are not occluded from causing drag when inside the fairing.  I was having problems with this craft:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BXBOSfHrgtynK6-UcsQwirzLnStllMKr/view?usp=sharing
 

Images of drag with ReStock:

Note the two drag lines from the two HG-5 antennae.

Inside the fairing:

The Solar Panels and batteries do not seem to produce red drag lines, even without the fairing (is that normal?).

Here's an image with it working properly (Without ReStock):

Note that only the Fairing itself is producing drag.

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Infinite_Maelstrom
Added images

[Cherihana]

Hi! Is it possible that you could maybe Restock the spaceplane parts? It'd be really fun to see them with a heatshield as well!

[GuessingEveryDay]

4 hours ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

Hello,

I'm having an issue with fairings (1.25m specifically), where surface attached parts are not occluded from causing drag when inside the fairing.  I was having problems with this craft:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BXBOSfHrgtynK6-UcsQwirzLnStllMKr/view?usp=sharing
 

Images of drag with ReStock:

Note the two drag lines from the two HG-5 antennae.

Inside the fairing:

The Solar Panels and batteries do not seem to produce red drag lines, even without the fairing (is that normal?).

Here's an image with it working properly (Without ReStock):

Note that only the Fairing itself is producing drag.

 

Isn't the fairing's job to protect the insides from atmospheric forces? Which would mean the only thing that the atmospheric simulation affects is whatever isn't contained by a fairing too?

[softweir]

2 hours ago, Cherihana said:

Hi! Is it possible that you could maybe Restock the spaceplane parts? It'd be really fun to see them with a heatshield as well!

Hi! Somebody asked about this just a page or two back. The answer is that the spaceplane parts were created by one of the Restock team, and as such already follow the Restock design aesthetic; you could say they have Restock built-in from Stock!

 

1 hour ago, GuessingEveryDay said:

Isn't the fairing's job to protect the insides from atmospheric forces? Which would mean the only thing that the atmospheric simulation affects is whatever isn't contained by a fairing too?

Fairings can fail to shield contained parts if either a) the fairing's is faulty, or b) parts inside have drag cubes that exceed the bounds of the fairing. Either is possible - it might take some expertise and/or effort to decide which is the case in this instance.

[Infinite_Maelstrom]

8 hours ago, GuessingEveryDay said:

Isn't the fairing's job to protect the insides from atmospheric forces? Which would mean the only thing that the atmospheric simulation affects is whatever isn't contained by a fairing too?

Yes.  My HG-5 Antennae are inside the fairing.

7 hours ago, softweir said:

Fairings can fail to shield contained parts if either a) the fairing's is faulty, or b) parts inside have drag cubes that exceed the bounds of the fairing. Either is possible - it might take some expertise and/or effort to decide which is the case in this instance.

Does ReStock change the size of stock part's drag cubes?  I thought it only changed the appearance of the parts.

[softweir]

11 minutes ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

Yes.  My HG-5 Antennae are inside the fairing.

Does ReStock change the size of stock part's drag cubes?  I thought it only changed the appearance of the parts.

I don't know. I wouldn't expect them to do so, but errors can happen. *shrug*

[JebIsDeadBaby]

Hi, 

I believe HG-5 High Gain Antenna model has a doubled dish. This is what the antenna fell apart into after my botched Mun landing: 

EDIT:

in the next, equally successfull landing it fell apart into 4 dishes. It's like a matryoshka doll. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by JebIsDeadBaby

[FieryBull]

Both the HG-5 and the HG-20 have problems.  I suspect it's a long lasting problem that was dismissed in 2019: HG-5 and HG-20 antennas incompatible with Procedural Fairings · Issue #554 · PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked (github.com). Yes, this "bug"  was about procedural fairings, but I believe the same problem occurs with the stock fairings, and it was never fixed. Or maybe it was fixed at some point, I don't know since I haven't used Restocked between 2019 and now.

According to an old developer article, the bays and fairings use the visual center to determine if an object is protected from the atmosphere or not: 

I'm assuming they're still using the same algorithm, I could be totally wrong. The issue is that both of those deployable antennas offers variants with a radial and axial version, and the game uses the complete model hierarchy to determine the center. In that situation, I think the variants weren't designed to have the centroid change drastically between alternatives. Here is what the 3D model with its full hierarchy activated looks like in its retracted and then extended state:

If the variants were considered on their own, there would be no issues for the fairing containment, because the visual center would be correct. But the game seems to load all the hierarchy at once, and the center becomes the center of all of them, which is wrong for individual variants. In this example image, I chose radial as the variant, and this is roughly how the visual center will be situated. (because the game uses the center of all the variants active at the same time)

For drag cube generation, a similar issue. A deployable antenna expects two drag cube, one named RETRACTED, and the other one named EXTENDED_A. When you have variants in addition, the game generates a drag cube for each variant. So for those two antennas, you end up with 6 drag cube:

• RETRACTED
• EXTENDED_A
• 0
• 1
• 2
• 3

The RETRACTED and EXTENDED_A cubes are generated with the whole model hierarchy active, which is wrong, since you have the drag of essentially 4 antennas instead of one. The numbered drag cubes are generated from the extended state of each individual variant. There is no drag cube generated for the individual variants in the retracted state, so it cannot possibly be correct. I suspect the module for deployable antennas wasn't designed for multiple variants. Here are the default drag cubes generated:

The two big bounding boxes are the RETRACTED and EXTENDED_A drag cubes. The 4 other small ones are the variants cubes (0, 1, 2, 3). I'm showing the model before the deploy animation has played in the first picture, and after it has played in the second picture. So the first one is the retracted state, and the second image is the extended state.

For this system to correctly work, the game would have to generate and use a retracted and extended cube for each variants. For example, we'd need 0_RETRACTED, 0_EXTENDED, 1_RETRACTED, 1_EXTENDED, 2_RETRACTED, 2_EXTENDED, 3_RETRACTED, 3_EXTENDED. But alas, the stock code doesn't support this.

As it stands right now, the game seems to weigh both the drag cube of the antenna state (retracted/extended) AND the variant drag cube (in its extended state only).  What can be done to fix the situation? I think custom code is needed if we really want a perfect solution. Otherwise, we need separate parts, we can't have axial and radial as variants in the same part.

Okay, I'm done for now. Reading my post again, I don't feel like I've done a very good job trying to explain the problem, and I'm sorry for that. 

[softweir]

13 hours ago, FieryBull said:

Both the HG-5 and the HG-20 have problems. *snip long, detailed and coherent explanation*

You explained that very well! I consider this to be a serious issue that is well worth reposting on the Add-On Discussion forum. No need to repost the whole thing, just link to this post in a new thread on the dev forum.

Edited September 25, 2021 by softweir
Named the Add-On Discussion forum correctly

[Nertea]

On 9/16/2021 at 1:22 PM, JebIsDeadBaby said:

Hi, 

I believe HG-5 High Gain Antenna model has a doubled dish. This is what the antenna fell apart into after my botched Mun landing: 

EDIT:

in the next, equally successfull landing it fell apart into 4 dishes. It's like a matryoshka doll. 

Limitation of PartVariants, doesn't properly handle the smashing animation and displays all the variant parts at the same time. 

On 9/24/2021 at 5:56 PM, FieryBull said:

Both the HG-5 and the HG-20 have problems.  I suspect it's a long lasting problem that was dismissed in 2019: HG-5 and HG-20 antennas incompatible with Procedural Fairings · Issue #554 · PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked (github.com). Yes, this "bug"  was about procedural fairings, but I believe the same problem occurs with the stock fairings, and it was never fixed. Or maybe it was fixed at some point, I don't know since I haven't used Restocked between 2019 and now.

According to an old developer article, the bays and fairings use the visual center to determine if an object is protected from the atmosphere or not: 

I'm assuming they're still using the same algorithm, I could be totally wrong. The issue is that both of those deployable antennas offers variants with a radial and axial version, and the game uses the complete model hierarchy to determine the center. In that situation, I think the variants weren't designed to have the centroid change drastically between alternatives. Here is what the 3D model with its full hierarchy activated looks like in its retracted and then extended state:

 

If the variants were considered on their own, there would be no issues for the fairing containment, because the visual center would be correct. But the game seems to load all the hierarchy at once, and the center becomes the center of all of them, which is wrong for individual variants. In this example image, I chose radial as the variant, and this is roughly how the visual center will be situated. (because the game uses the center of all the variants active at the same time)

For drag cube generation, a similar issue. A deployable antenna expects two drag cube, one named RETRACTED, and the other one named EXTENDED_A. When you have variants in addition, the game generates a drag cube for each variant. So for those two antennas, you end up with 6 drag cube:

• RETRACTED
• EXTENDED_A
• 0
• 1
• 2
• 3

The RETRACTED and EXTENDED_A cubes are generated with the whole model hierarchy active, which is wrong, since you have the drag of essentially 4 antennas instead of one. The numbered drag cubes are generated from the extended state of each individual variant. There is no drag cube generated for the individual variants in the retracted state, so it cannot possibly be correct. I suspect the module for deployable antennas wasn't designed for multiple variants. Here are the default drag cubes generated:

The two big bounding boxes are the RETRACTED and EXTENDED_A drag cubes. The 4 other small ones are the variants cubes (0, 1, 2, 3). I'm showing the model before the deploy animation has played in the first picture, and after it has played in the second picture. So the first one is the retracted state, and the second image is the extended state.

For this system to correctly work, the game would have to generate and use a retracted and extended cube for each variants. For example, we'd need 0_RETRACTED, 0_EXTENDED, 1_RETRACTED, 1_EXTENDED, 2_RETRACTED, 2_EXTENDED, 3_RETRACTED, 3_EXTENDED. But alas, the stock code doesn't support this.

As it stands right now, the game seems to weigh both the drag cube of the antenna state (retracted/extended) AND the variant drag cube (in its extended state only).  What can be done to fix the situation? I think custom code is needed if we really want a perfect solution. Otherwise, we need separate parts, we can't have axial and radial as variants in the same part.

Okay, I'm done for now. Reading my post again, I don't feel like I've done a very good job trying to explain the problem, and I'm sorry for that. 

Yeah this is something that should have been caught before we actually made these parts. The stock PartVariants is pretty gnarly and not useful for all the cases we need. We learned a lot about what PV could and could not do in this project!

[SpartanJack17]

Are there any waterfall configs available for the restock+ engines?  The Pug and Valiant don't have any plumes at all in my install using waterfall restock.

Edited October 1, 2021 by SpartanJack17

[visssius]

5 hours ago, SpartanJack17 said:

Are there any waterfall configs available for the restock+ engines?  The Pug and Valiant don't have any plumes at all in my install using waterfall restock.

Yes there is "Waterfall - Restock". You can find it on Ckan. You can also use it with real plume. They don't conflict.
The OP is here.

Edited October 1, 2021 by visssius

[SpartanJack17]

32 minutes ago, visssius said:

Yes there is "Waterfall - Restock". You can find it on Ckan. You can also use it with real plume. They don't conflict.
The OP is here.

I know, I have Waterfall - Restock, I mentioned it in that comment.  But the engines from restock + don't have plumes while using that config, it only covers the engines in standard restock.  I might end up installing realplume alongside it since it would work for the engines that aren't covered.

[Zelda]

1 hour ago, SpartanJack17 said:

I know, I have Waterfall - Restock, I mentioned it in that comment.  But the engines from restock + don't have plumes while using that config, it only covers the engines in standard restock.  

WaterfallRestock has configs for RestockPlus. If you look in the folder for it, you'll see a RestockPlus folder containing the configs. Maybe try reinstalling it?

Edited October 1, 2021 by Zelda

[SpartanJack17]

49 minutes ago, Zelda said:

WaterfallRestock has configs for RestockPlus. If you look in the folder for it, you'll see a RestockPlus folder containing the configs. Maybe try reinstalling it?

They're there, but the configs seem unfinished - they're missing the part that creates most of the visual effects and only have audio and lighting effects in the config when compared to the configs for normal restock engines.  I'm not 100% sure if that's actually the problem or I'm just reading the config wrong, but the effects definitely aren't there even on a clean fresh ksp install with no mods installed except restock, restock +, waterfall and the restock waterfall configs.  I set that up just then to test if it's any of my other mods causing the problem but it definitely isn't, every standard restock engine has a waterfall plume but none of the restock+ engines do.

[softweir]

WaterfallRestock is working fine for me. Try uninstalling both mods, redownloading, and reinstalling. Make sure you put everything in the right place!

[Staticalliam7]

How do you feel about adding a mk3 inline docking port to restock+

[vinix]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:31 AM, Nertea said:

no further work is likely to be done on the mod. 

 

[FlybeachYon2021]

please can you make this mod for 1.12.x?