[1.12.5] Restock - Revamping KSP's art (August 28)

[Nightside]

6 minutes ago, cantab said:

I spent a couple of playing sessions just looking through both Restock and some of your other parts mods. I have to say, the Restock parts just almost immediately feel right. It's like stock, but better. OK there's one or two things I could grumble about, but overall it's excellent.

And then of course I go and hide your remodelled Nerv inside a structural tube, ahem. And get caught out by those little vents you added, but a quick rotate hides that on the lander design in question.

Why hide it?

let it shine!

[MechBFP]

46 minutes ago, Nertea said:

If you install Restock with MH installed, it will already replace the covered parts. If you install RS+ too, the new parts that overlap with MH will be hidden to avoid duplication.

That makes sense. Thanks!

[Jognt]

24 minutes ago, Nightside said:

Why hide it?

let it shine!

I wonder if it's possible to make the NERV radiate heat outwards such that if you clip it in anything, the covering part would get destroyed. Though I imagine a tweak like that would not be appreciated by most offset-appreciators

[Nightside]

8 minutes ago, Jognt said:

I wonder if it's possible to make the NERV radiate heat outwards such that if you clip it in anything, the covering part would get destroyed. Though I imagine a tweak like that would not be appreciated by most offset-appreciators

Clippers gonna clip

[Nertea]

37 minutes ago, cantab said:

I spent a couple of playing sessions just looking through both Restock and some of your other parts mods. I have to say, the Restock parts just almost immediately feel right. It's like stock, but better. OK there's one or two things I could grumble about, but overall it's excellent.

And then of course I go and hide your remodelled Nerv inside a structural tube, ahem. And get caught out by those little vents you added, but a quick rotate hides that on the lander design in question.

That's really the goal so I'm glad you felt that way. Always happy to see people trying out the mod and having the reaction we hoped!

It would be cool to do a boattail nerv variant with little holes for the turbopump exhausts. 

11 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

That makes sense. Thanks!

Many more MH parts coming in 0.2.0...

[theJesuit]

On 6/22/2019 at 4:33 AM, Nertea said:

Many more MH parts coming in 0.2.0...

Interest level: CRITICAL 

Peace. 

[nwillard]

Got a strange bug, not sure what it might be related to. Only mods I have installed are Restock, the Near Future Technologies mods, and the required dependencies. Installed them over an already-in-progress early career save.

When I put a vessel on the launchpad and then recover it, I'm getting back a lot more money than I've spent making it. For example, for some reason the game thinks the recovery part value of each OX-STAT solar panel is like 5,000, when it only costs me a couple hundred to put on. Difficulty is set to Hard.

Here's a link to the log file if needed -- https://www.dropbox.com/s/u9dg0vgh910ht58/output_log - wrong recovered part values.txt?dl=0

And a pic of the strangeness -- https://imgur.com/a/nTmyVu6

Hopefully someone has an idea of what's going on! And thanks

[Streetwind]

Question -

I see analogues for the Making History engines in future Restock+ roadmaps. Two 2.5m, one 1.25m and one vernier in 0.2.0; and two 1.875m ones in 0.3.0. However, that means that there's a third 2.5m engine unaccounted for that Making History adds: the F-1 inspired Mastodon. Is that intentionally left out, or has it been overlooked? Its variants are very poorly set up in MH - for example, it offers you to use a 1.875m size base instead, and the bell is narrow enough to fit, but the collider remains 2.5m. So it would definitely benefit from the Restock treatment, even if it has to wait until 0.3.0.

[Nertea]

1 hour ago, Streetwind said:

Question -

I see analogues for the Making History engines in future Restock+ roadmaps. Two 2.5m, one 1.25m and one vernier in 0.2.0; and two 1.875m ones in 0.3.0. However, that means that there's a third 2.5m engine unaccounted for that Making History adds: the F-1 inspired Mastodon. Is that intentionally left out, or has it been overlooked? Its variants are very poorly set up in MH - for example, it offers you to use a 1.875m size base instead, and the bell is narrow enough to fit, but the collider remains 2.5m. So it would definitely benefit from the Restock treatment, even if it has to wait until 0.3.0.

I have only actually committed to 4 MH engines (would be 3 but doing the RD-107 without its verniers felt odd). Things that are issues are commitments, other sources for information are aspirational. The ones that have been chosen were chosen primarily because they work well as basic 1.875m parts (the set of booster, sustainer and vacuum). Other sizes are less relevant.

One thing I've noticed while working on these is that the MH parts are pretty terrible in terms of technical design (as well as artistic). I mean, this was pretty obvious before, but it definitely reinforces my thoughts that only certain MH parts will ever be redone. In particular, I'm never touching those service modules. So yeah, I'll try to fix what I can, but it's a slog to do it and keep compatibility.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Nertea said:

I have only actually committed to 4 MH engines (would be 3 but doing the RD-107 without its verniers felt odd). Things that are issues are commitments, other sources for information are aspirational. The ones that have been chosen were chosen primarily because they work well as basic 1.875m parts (the set of booster, sustainer and vacuum). Other sizes are less relevant.

For RD-107, will it have the proper turbopump exhaust ducts?

Everyone always gets them wrong.  Or rather, they don't "get" them at all, because display models usually lack those ducts, so the hot steam from the pump must magically dissipate into space, right?  

And yeah, MH is pretty terrible in design. Luckily, just about the only useful parts are thrust plates, command pods and 1.875m parts.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Guest

[drtedastro]

First, nice mod.

Next, where can i find an example .blacklist and or .whitelist file?

I have gone over the wiki, but still not 100% clear.

Many thanks.

[TBenz]

32 minutes ago, drtedastro said:

First, nice mod.

Next, where can i find an example .blacklist and or .whitelist file?

I have gone over the wiki, but still not 100% clear.

Many thanks.

Here's the current blacklist file distributed with restock, on github. 

https://github.com/PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked/blob/master/Distribution/Restock/GameData/ReStock/Restock.restockblacklist

From what I understand, a whitelist file should have identical syntax, with the only difference being that the file name should end with ".restockwhitelist". It's pretty straightforward. Just put all the relevant file paths (either to a specific file, or a folder containing multiple files to all be black/white listed) on separate lines in a file with the proper file extension. 

[Streetwind]

10 hours ago, Nertea said:

I have only actually committed to 4 MH engines (would be 3 but doing the RD-107 without its verniers felt odd). Things that are issues are commitments, other sources for information are aspirational. The ones that have been chosen were chosen primarily because they work well as basic 1.875m parts (the set of booster, sustainer and vacuum). Other sizes are less relevant.

One thing I've noticed while working on these is that the MH parts are pretty terrible in terms of technical design (as well as artistic). I mean, this was pretty obvious before, but it definitely reinforces my thoughts that only certain MH parts will ever be redone. In particular, I'm never touching those service modules. So yeah, I'll try to fix what I can, but it's a slog to do it and keep compatibility.

Yeah, no worries. If you (as in, the Restock team) don't do a F-1 analogue that replaces the MH Mastodon, it's not that great of a loss. Stat-wise it's pretty much the same as a Mainsail anyway, albeit better-looking... but that argument falls flat when a Restock-improved Mainsail is already available  It would be nice to have, so I could tweak it to fit a different niche, but it's not worth upending your roadmap over. Chuck it on the maybe-pile for 0.3.0?

As for the service modules... to be honest I had to look up what you meant, despite having had Making History since its release. Umm, yeah, never used a one of them. Not a big loss either! Besides, if it's a part in Restock+, I'm not expecting it to match MH's part behavior exactly, or maintain precise compatibility. You're already going with different names, for starters, so that kind of sets the tone. Are you sizing the extra engines as 1.875m out of the box? Or are you mirroring the MH way of them actually being a different size but having a switchable 1.875m variant?

[cantab]

Yeah, the Mastodon seems virtually useless. It's supposed to represent the F1 but Squad went and made it weaker than the Mainsail. The weight and Isp improvements are negligible. Sure it has more gimbal and in stock it's a little more compact, but if you want lots of thrust and gimbal in a small space then you use Vectors.

The service modules might make more sense if they had regular opening on the doors. Though the blow the bloody doors off option would want to stay as well for compatibility.

[drtedastro]

7 hours ago, TBenz said:

Here's the current blacklist file distributed with restock, on github. 

https://github.com/PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked/blob/master/Distribution/Restock/GameData/ReStock/Restock.restockblacklist

From what I understand, a whitelist file should have identical syntax, with the only difference being that the file name should end with ".restockwhitelist". It's pretty straightforward. Just put all the relevant file paths (either to a specific file, or a folder containing multiple files to all be black/white listed) on separate lines in a file with the proper file extension. 

Many thanks for the reply and information.

Cheers.

[Jognt]

Just a heads-up. The following parts have a typo in their .cfg (subcatagory instead of subcategory):

restock-antenna-stack-2
restock-antenna-stack-3
restock-relay-radial-2
restock-reactionwheel-radial-1
restock-goocanister-625-1
restock-materialbay-radial-1

It's probably harmless, but I figured I'd mention it.
Edit: If anyone knows what subcategory is/can be used for I'd love to know.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Jognt

[Nertea]

5 hours ago, Streetwind said:

Yeah, no worries. If you (as in, the Restock team) don't do a F-1 analogue that replaces the MH Mastodon, it's not that great of a loss. Stat-wise it's pretty much the same as a Mainsail anyway, albeit better-looking... but that argument falls flat when a Restock-improved Mainsail is already available  It would be nice to have, so I could tweak it to fit a different niche, but it's not worth upending your roadmap over. Chuck it on the maybe-pile for 0.3.0?

As for the service modules... to be honest I had to look up what you meant, despite having had Making History since its release. Umm, yeah, never used a one of them. Not a big loss either! Besides, if it's a part in Restock+, I'm not expecting it to match MH's part behavior exactly, or maintain precise compatibility. You're already going with different names, for starters, so that kind of sets the tone. Are you sizing the extra engines as 1.875m out of the box? Or are you mirroring the MH way of them actually being a different size but having a switchable 1.875m variant?

There's a limit to what is doable without affecting the base game, but I will see if I can set the 1.875m size class to default without causing issues.

As for balance, well, the key is that art-wise the RS+ parts must match the original dimensions as well as possible. I think there is some freedom in working through the balance though, we can at least attempt to fix what squad did poorly.

I think it's important to note that we haven't committed at all to any complete replacement of MH. I won't put tickets up until I'm 90+% sure that I will do them and feeling motivated to do engines (12+ hrs per part) isn't really guaranteed. And yes in this case it's just me working on engines ;). 

Long story, I won't scope MH things for 0.3.0 until I'm sure.

2 hours ago, cantab said:

Yeah, the Mastodon seems virtually useless. It's supposed to represent the F1 but Squad went and made it weaker than the Mainsail. The weight and Isp improvements are negligible. Sure it has more gimbal and in stock it's a little more compact, but if you want lots of thrust and gimbal in a small space then you use Vectors.

The service modules might make more sense if they had regular opening on the doors. Though the blow the bloody doors off option would want to stay as well for compatibility.

Yeah that's how it goes really. They're liquid-poor replicas (inconsistent roles, bad scaling, confusing balance) and functionally fail to conform to the Lego idea of the stock parts. Pick one thing, do it well.

On 6/23/2019 at 1:33 AM, nwillard said:

Got a strange bug, not sure what it might be related to. Only mods I have installed are Restock, the Near Future Technologies mods, and the required dependencies. Installed them over an already-in-progress early career save.

When I put a vessel on the launchpad and then recover it, I'm getting back a lot more money than I've spent making it. For example, for some reason the game thinks the recovery part value of each OX-STAT solar panel is like 5,000, when it only costs me a couple hundred to put on. Difficulty is set to Hard.

Here's a link to the log file if needed -- https://www.dropbox.com/s/u9dg0vgh910ht58/output_log - wrong recovered part values.txt?dl=0

And a pic of the strangeness -- https://imgur.com/a/nTmyVu6

Hopefully someone has an idea of what's going on! And thanks

I can't think of anything we do that could affect recovery values. I will try to find time to look at your log later for any clues but offhand I don't even know how to touch such things.

[drtedastro]

Thanks for the reply's and help so far.

I am still thrashing around trying to get the .blacklist and whitelist to work.  It is obvious that i am missing something basic.

For a simple test, i am trying to 'keep' the stock 'Ant' engines, both variants, in the game.

I have created a file, "Squad_Engines.restockwhitelist" , that contains;

Squad/Parts/Engine/liquidEngineLV-1/
Squad/Parts/Engine/liquidEngineLV-1_v2/
 

If someone would be so king as to point out where i have run amok???

many thanks in advance.

cheers,

[Nertea]

28 minutes ago, drtedastro said:

Thanks for the reply's and help so far.

I am still thrashing around trying to get the .blacklist and whitelist to work.  It is obvious that i am missing something basic.

For a simple test, i am trying to 'keep' the stock 'Ant' engines, both variants, in the game.

I have created a file, "Squad_Engines.restockwhitelist" , that contains;

Squad/Parts/Engine/liquidEngineLV-1/
Squad/Parts/Engine/liquidEngineLV-1_v2/
 

If someone would be so king as to point out where i have run amok???

many thanks in advance.

cheers,

Generally, for every replaced part, we have:

• A MM patch, which makes the actual changes to the part itself (changes the model file, modifies some fields as needed, adds new FX)
• A blacklist entry, which stops the (now unneeded) old models and textures from loading. 

If you want the actual original thing back you need to:

• Whitelist the appropriate models and textures (as you have done 
• Edit the ModuleManger patch file that affects that part

Once that is done you'll have the original part back in all its glory. 

 

[drtedastro]

Many thanks.

That did it great.

great stuff and again, thanks for the reply and support.

Cheers.

[Barzon]

Isn't there already a F-1 replica in ReStock+ though? The single boar? Because the twin boar is based off a proposal for LFBs for SLS using 2 upgraded F1s?

[Guest]

This is an F-1B, a vastly different engine. It does have F-1 heritage, but it's a modern design and looks nothing like it. 

[Nertea]

1 hour ago, Barzon Kerman said:

Isn't there already a F-1 replica in ReStock+ though? The single boar? Because the twin boar is based off a proposal for LFBs for SLS using 2 upgraded F1s?

Pretty large difference - this slide is pretty solid.

 

2 hours ago, drtedastro said:

Many thanks.

That did it great.

great stuff and again, thanks for the reply and support.

Cheers.

Happy to help. 

[Barzon]

oh.

[madindehead]

On 6/24/2019 at 8:04 PM, Nertea said:

Generally, for every replaced part, we have:

• A MM patch, which makes the actual changes to the part itself (changes the model file, modifies some fields as needed, adds new FX)
• A blacklist entry, which stops the (now unneeded) old models and textures from loading. 

If you want the actual original thing back you need to:

• Whitelist the appropriate models and textures (as you have done 
• Edit the ModuleManger patch file that affects that part

Once that is done you'll have the original part back in all its glory. 

  

I think I understand this correctly but I just want to clarify. If I have the whitelist file and make the appropriate patch modifications, it's possible for me to have both the original part and your ReStock version available to me? 

Absolutely loving the mod by the way! The visuals are amazing. Just not a fan of some of the engine models  or rather, I would like the option to have both (aesthetics matter to me more than they probably should!) I've just started playing KSP properly after owning it for years. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by madindehead
Added additional line about models.