The New End-User License Agreement is Unacceptable

[Vanamonde]

Overlapping threads have been merged. 

[klesh]

Here is a nice list of companies that have actually reacted to their players concerns and have removed, or pledged to remove redshell from their games.  You may want to check to see if anything else you're playing is listed:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/8pud8b/psa_red_shell_spyware_holy_potatoes_were_in_space/

Meanwhile, Squad and Take-Two's silence is deafening.

[Kerbinchaser]

What concerns me the most is this:
By installing and using the Software, you consent to the information collection and usage terms set forth in this section and Licensor's Privacy Policy, including (iv) other uses and disclosures of your personal information or other information as specified in the above-referenced Privacy Policy, as amended from time to time. If you do not want your information used or shared in this manner, then you should not use the Software,

And:

(i) the transfer of any personal information and other information to Licensor, its affiliates, vendors, and business partners, and to certain other third parties, such as governmental authorities, in the U.S. and other countries located outside Europe or your home country, including countries that may have lower standards of privacy protection.

Plus that. 

 

Yeah..
I'll stick to the forums, thanks. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Lo Var Lachland

[MaverickSawyer]

Clearly you've not read other EULAs before... They're all pretty draconian. Also, this discussion has been had repeatedly, and as of yet, Take Two hasn't done anything.

Relax, quit panicking over nothing, and keep playing. If you're worried about someone stealing or selling your personal data, while complaining about it online, I guarantee you it's too late... Big Brothers Facebook and Google did that years ago.

[Kerbinchaser]

2 minutes ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Clearly you've not read other EULAs before... They're all pretty draconian. Also, this discussion has been had repeatedly, and as of yet, Take Two hasn't done anything.

Relax, quit panicking over nothing, and keep playing. If you're worried about someone stealing or selling your personal data, while complaining about it online, I guarantee you it's too late... Big Brothers Facebook and Google did that years ago.

Yeah, really the first EULA I properly read. Lol.  

[radonek]

6 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Clearly you've not read other EULAs before... They're all pretty draconian. Also, this discussion has been had repeatedly, and as of yet, Take Two hasn't done anything.

Relax, quit panicking over nothing, and keep playing. If you're worried about someone stealing or selling your personal data, while complaining about it online, I guarantee you it's too late... Big Brothers Facebook and Google did that years ago.

... and this is how privacy got eroded to this point in the first place. I feel sad.

[klgraham1013]

2 hours ago, radonek said:

... and this is how privacy got eroded to this point in the first place. I feel sad.

Pretty much.

"I don't mind giving up my rights because, I mean, they haven't done anything yet.  So, why not?"

[Rocket In My Pocket]

If you're worried about it at all, you should get off the internet entirely; you've already agreed to far worse.

[klgraham1013]

25 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

If you're worried about it at all, you should get off the internet entirely; you've already agreed to far worse.

I think this might be a slippery slope, but not quite.  The internet isn't inherently the problem.  It's just an infrastructure.  It's the idea I can disagree with the government's stance on something (even speak out against it), yet still obey it's rules on that something, because I'm a decent human being.

You can accept and obey the EULA, and still think it's wrong and speak out against it.

[Curveball Anders]

No

[Rocket In My Pocket]

35 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I think this might be a slippery slope, but not quite.  The internet isn't inherently the problem.  It's just an infrastructure.  It's the idea I can disagree with the government's stance on something (even speak out against it), yet still obey it's rules on that something, because I'm a decent human being.

You can accept and obey the EULA, and still think it's wrong and speak out against it.

I think it's important to accept that times and values change.

Decades ago we valued things we don't value now, like modesty. Your grandmother's grandmother wouldn't have been caught dead in a bathing suit, let alone a bikini. In that respect you can think of privacy as the new modesty. The older generation will resist, and the younger generation will barge ahead as they always do, it will be a painful process, it always is; but the world will keep turning.

We (I'm assuming your at least "middle aged" like me) come from a time when privacy was more valued, our fathers valued privacy and they instilled that in us. Today's generation is more connected, they were born with the internet at their fingertips, they take it for granted the same way we take air and water for granted. They will come up with their own social standards that are different than ours, things will change. Privacy is a foreign concept to them, they don't value it and don't even want it; they want everyone to know what they are doing; the internet is a social stage to them. While I don't personally agree with the reduction of privacy I'm self aware enough to know that at this point I'm the old man yelling at the kids to get off my lawn and turn their rap music down.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Rocket In My Pocket

[Pecan]

A.  Yes, because it absolutely is an abhorrent bit of legal repurposed bovine waste that demonstrates the shamelessness of businesses.
B.  Yes, and that fact that every other business says almost exactly the same thing in their own EULAs doesn't make it right.
C.  Yes, because the worst bit (it's probably in there somewhere, something similar always is) is the one that mean you don't own anything, whatever you think you own can be taken away at any time and even while you have something it might not work at all, or do what it said it would.
D.  No, because these standard EULAs are so excrementsty that in many jurisdictions they may well be considered 'illegal contract' but haven't been tested in court yet.
E.  No, because GDPR expressly denies businesses the right to do most of what this EULA does.
F.  Yes, because as soon as a company gets caught by this all the politicians 'protecting their citizens' will change the law, take the money and run for cover.
G.  No, because Google already knows everything about you.

(I almost think it reads better after the auto-censor has changed it)

Edited January 5, 2019 by Pecan

[Gapone]

I have a @!%@*&# game which i ^%$&$#^@%! from @^#^%$^(*%. I don't care about it.

[Pecan]

14 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

 I'm the old man yelling at the kids to get off my lawn and turn their rap music down.

I'm the old man that lives on a yacht, so doesn't have much of an internet connection, for most of the year, doesn't use social media but does use Tor browser and a secure email host.  Don't have a TV or subscribe to magazines (no signal/delivery/my language).  Many of the 'debates' I get into on the internet (text forums like this usually get through fine ^^) end with "yeah, I just don't live in that consumerist advertising world any more".  Damn, and there's still another 11 years before I can claim my pension.

(There's possibly a reason I've spent 4,000hrs+ on KSP in there somewhere!)

[Curveball Anders]

24 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

 I'm the old man yelling at the kids to get off my lawn and turn their rap music down.

I'm the old man with 30 years experience in information security feeling despondent that kids doesn't understand the issues.

 

[klgraham1013]

2 hours ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

I'm assuming your at least "middle aged" like me

You are correct, sir.

It's not so much privacy that bothers me these days, but the idea of ownership.  We're basically paying a one time leasing fee for the use of software.  A lease that can be terminated at any time without warning or explanation.  Will that fly in a court if challenged?  Probably not.  ...but it's the idea that we're accepting of companies writing those sort of terms into these contracts.  

[Curveball Anders]

7 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

You are correct, sir.

It's not so much privacy that bothers me these days, but the idea of ownership.  We're basically paying a one time leasing fee for the use of software.  A lease that can be terminated at any time without warning or explanation.  Will that fly in a court if challenged?  Probably not.  ...but it's the idea that we're accepting of companies writing those sort of terms into these contracts.  

I don't give any serious matter of ownership of data. I'm more scared of how my stuff is abused.

Sure there's 1M IoT thingies open for explotion (or promoting PdP), ponder what they can do?

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Curveball Anders

[Rocket In My Pocket]

45 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

You are correct, sir.

It's not so much privacy that bothers me these days, but the idea of ownership.  We're basically paying a one time leasing fee for the use of software.  A lease that can be terminated at any time without warning or explanation.  Will that fly in a court if challenged?  Probably not.  ...but it's the idea that we're accepting of companies writing those sort of terms into these contracts.  

With the way technology is going I'll be surprised if anyone really "owns" anything 20-50ish years from now.

Nothing we make is really worth owning anymore, everyone get's a new phone every few years, why buy them at that point? Pretty soon we'll be leasing them, or just paying a monthly fee for the service, which the phone is included in. Vehicles are plastic pieces of junk, no one is going to be passing down their old truck to their son, or grandson. Computers are outdated faster and faster, it'll get to a point where we just can't keep up lol. We typically don't have physical copies of the music we listen to, the shows we watch, or really much of anything entertainment wise. Even gaming is making moves towards being a "service" rather than a "product." A house is about the only practical thing one can own anymore, and pass down.

From the looks of it most products, will become services in the future. Is it for the better? I don't know to be honest. I think as a race, our entire existence can be summed up as frantically laying track in front of a speeding train, and hoping we don't come to a sudden cliff. Lol. We just won't know till we get there.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Rocket In My Pocket

[klgraham1013]

24 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Nothing we make is really worth owning anymore

I write music on the side.  I know this better than most.  Music essentially holds no monetary value at this point.  It seems to be indicative of a whole.  Doesn't mean I need to like it.  I buy from GOG almost exclusively now, just for the ability to have DRM free backup copies.  Sad thing is, I bet some of those games have EULAs that specify they can not be run without DRM, nor be copied.  Another indication that EULAs really hold no power.  Still, I'll hold to my principals and say just because their words don't hold any power, it doesn't mean they're okay that they exist as written.

That's probably the last I'll say on this.  Kraken knows how many words I wrote about it last time this discussion happened.

Edited January 5, 2019 by klgraham1013

[Vanamonde]

Overlapping threads have been merged. 

[ColKlonk2]

[LOG 20:08:48.032] Loading data opt-out preferences from PlayerPrefs
[LOG 20:08:48.083] Requesting data opt-out preferences from https://data-optout-service.uca.cloud.unity3d.com/player/opt_out?appid='blanked out'&userid='blanked out'&deviceid='blanked out'

And why are we doing this ??

[MechBFP]

Probably because it was pre-written code in Unity and therefore easy to implement. 

[klgraham1013]

Because having you're opt out choice stored locally wasn't creepy enough?

[panzer1b]

Ever since it was added, ive been deleting redshell.dll and unityanalytics.dll from my game directory and ive yet to see any attempt at KSP to sent data anywhere (i actually value privacy unlike 90% of my generation).

That said, i firewall everything as a matter of principle and only allow stuff through that has a very good reason to need net access.  Its not about paranoia, its just that i dont believe that any software should be allowed internet acess unless internet acess is a integral part of its functionality (browsers, online games, ect).  KSP, ever since multiplayer mods died (sadly really quickly after they were released), has no reason to go online cause there is no multiplayer that works thusfar in it.  Once good MP becomes a thing, ill be happy to grant KSP acess like every other MP game i have on my machine).

[Mr. Peabody]

Redshell got removed in 1.5.1. Unity analytics is still there though.