Radiators

[Daveroski]

I am not happy with the way that radiators work or rather not happy with the way radiators 'seem' to not be working properly.

Example.

If I have an ISRU and or some drills and some radiators. The equipment overheats before the radiators have reached anywhere near their potential cooling ability.

So you are watching the radiators slowly creep past 16% cooling and the ISRU or drill is over max.

While as a veteran player I am aware that a certain amount of radiators are required to cool certain equipment however it still feels wrong that the equipment is overheating and the radiators are not even at a fifth of their cooling efficiency.

It would 'feel' more accurate if the radiators ran up to 100% and were glowing brightly before the equipment started overheating.

It would at least 'seem' more obvious that more radiators were required if they were maxed out and the equipment was still overheating.

The radiators are not keeping pace with the given equipment and it just feels wrong.

 

D.

 

[M_Rat13]

It depends on other interactions. How effective are radiators near the sun, for example? If they work fine there, it's a bug on the mining equipment. If they don't, either the radiators themselves are bugged, or need a rework.

[Daveroski]

31 minutes ago, M_Rat13 said:

It depends on other interactions. How effective are radiators near the sun, for example? If they work fine there, it's a bug on the mining equipment. If they don't, either the radiators themselves are bugged, or need a rework.

No actually it doesn't.

Specific items + specific use = specific result.

I am not referring to how they react with solar heat removal nor am I speaking about how they cool any engine on board that gets hot.

No. I am referring to something that can be demonstrated right outside the VAB or hangar. The core heat of the ISRU and drills.

These items one would expect to be directly connected to the reflectors via pipework and coolant. One would expect the results to be faster and more visible than they are. The panels react so slowly to the core increase in temperature of the equipment. They do glow eventually but only after quite a long time.

Try it yourself. Give an ISRU some work to do and give it far too little radiators. Watch how much the ISRU overheats before the Radiator has even gotten to anything like maxed out.

 

[M_Rat13]

@Daveroski that sounds like a bug with the mining equipment, tbh.

[Daveroski]

23 hours ago, M_Rat13 said:

@Daveroski that sounds like a bug with the mining equipment, tbh.

So you think that both sizes of drill and both sizes of ISRU are more likely to be bugged than the core heat transfer routine used by the radiators.

Ok.. I'll bite.. Why do you think that?

[AVaughan]

@DaveroskiActually a screenshot of a vessel which has problems with radiators might be useful.  Often these type of issues are because the game is a more complex simulation than players realise, and a screenshot which shows the vessel in question might let other people make useful suggestions on how to make better use of KSPs radiators.  (And provides a starting point for deciding whether radiators/heat transfer seems to be buggy, or whether the issue is a craft design issue).

 

Edit:  Also PC or console?   What version?  Modded or unmodded?  (If modded what mods?)

Edited April 2, 2019 by AVaughan

[Daveroski]

On 4/2/2019 at 10:42 AM, AVaughan said:

@DaveroskiActually a screenshot of a vessel which has problems with radiators might be useful.  Often these type of issues are because the game is a more complex simulation than players realise, and a screenshot which shows the vessel in question might let other people make useful suggestions on how to make better use of KSPs radiators.  (And provides a starting point for deciding whether radiators/heat transfer seems to be buggy, or whether the issue is a craft design issue).

 

Edit:  Also PC or console?   What version?  Modded or unmodded?  (If modded what mods?)

How about you try it and see for yourself? Only take you a few minutes.

The vessel? Any vessel. Try a command pod, a  container of ore, a few batteries, an ISRU and any extending radiator those are the ones that are supposed to be plumbed in to the core of any heat producing equipment.

I have over 5000 hours in game. I have been everywhere and done pretty much everything. I don't need suggestions on how to use radiators. Why people always try to make it about something other that what was clearly stated I have no idea. All they have to do is read the original post. It was hardly a wall of text. It certainly wasn't too highbrow. I wanted a discussion about the problem not an argument about if there even is a problem.
I am pointing out.. you know what?.. forget I said anything.

[Dman Revolution]

1 hour ago, Daveroski said:

How about you try it and see for yourself? Only take you a few minutes.

The vessel? Any vessel. Try a command pod, a  container of ore, a few batteries, an ISRU and any extending radiator those are the ones that are supposed to be plumbed in to the core of any heat producing equipment.

I have over 5000 hours in game. I have been everywhere and done pretty much everything. I don't need suggestions on how to use radiators. Why people always try to make it about something other that what was clearly stated I have no idea. All they have to do is read the original post. It was hardly a wall of text. It certainly wasn't too highbrow. I wanted a discussion about the problem not an argument about if there even is a problem.
I am pointing out.. you know what?.. forget I said anything.

Are you following the placement conventions for radiators? You need to place them within 2 or 3 part connections.

Ie:

(Parts in order of placement to each other)

Fueltank (root) -> fueltank -> radiator

                      |---> drill

 

[JadeOfMaar]

2 hours ago, Daveroski said:

The vessel? Any vessel. Try a command pod, a  container of ore, a few batteries, an ISRU and any extending radiator those are the ones that are supposed to be plumbed in to the core of any heat producing equipment.

There is a known bug in the thermal system where items that involve Core Heat will require 10x the usual cooling power. To get around it, try experimenting in a new save, or deleting the Squad folder in your Steam install (assuming you use Steam) and using file verification to download it back. The stock thermal system is indeed a very sad piece of work. It's primary purpose is just to make ISRU threaten to overheat and give radiators some purpose.

[Daveroski]

Never mind guys.

If any of the older players I used to chat with were still in here reading this I may have gotten something like a decent conversation.

Maybe about radiators quickly reaching maximum tolerance and having an animation where they melt down and break.

Maybe about radiators and how engineers could repair them when they overheat and break down.

But as I seem to be having this conversation alone, having to imagine other imaginative people chatting with me, it's just no fun at all.

That no one seemed to be able to read (or perhaps understand) my original post and assumed I was having some kind of noob problem is sad.

D.

[OHara]

On 4/2/2019 at 2:42 AM, AVaughan said:

Actually a screenshot of a vessel which has problems with radiators might be useful.

The suggestion is to let the indications on the radiators "Cooling: 13.9%" and/or the surface temperature of the radiators, give some indication of whether they are having trouble keeping mining equipment at proper temperature.

We might all have understood the KSPedia section on 'core heat' being different from 'internal heat',
and that capacity of a radiator to draw 50kW core heat from mining equipment is a tiny fraction of its 3000kW capacity to pull total heat from neighboring parts, and that the "cooling:13.9%" indicates that the skin is 13.9% its maximum temperature in Kelvin, as it would be on Kerbin with no cooling at all, 
but none of this seems obvious.

A revision of the system to integrate 'core heat' into the usual temperature of parts would be a very helpful simplification.  As would making %Cooling indicate the heat flux being radiated as a fraction of the capacity of the radiator.  The radiators do glow red when their neighboring parts get warm, around 400K, and show thermometer bars when nearing their capacity to cool.

Edited April 8, 2019 by OHara

[Xurkitree]

This seems to be a bug. I have never experienced such an issue with my radiators, unless you count Moho sunrise in time warp.

Try switching to time warp? Time warp generally helps a lot.

On 4/8/2019 at 1:30 PM, Daveroski said:

Never mind guys.

If any of the older players I used to chat with were still in here reading this I may have gotten something like a decent conversation.

Maybe about radiators quickly reaching maximum tolerance and having an animation where they melt down and break.

Maybe about radiators and how engineers could repair them when they overheat and break down.

But as I seem to be having this conversation alone, having to imagine other imaginative people chatting with me, it's just no fun at all.

That no one seemed to be able to read (or perhaps understand) my original post and assumed I was having some kind of noob problem is sad.

D.

Also, there's no need to get so accusative. Instead of trying be all wishy-washy and imagining what SQUAD should do, we're trying to fix your problem now so that you can continue playing ahead with whatever you do. Also, having stuff like mods/unmodded or ksp version is useful to determine the source of the bug. We're trying to help you out, not fantasize about what might be.

[Pthigrivi]

On 4/5/2019 at 3:55 PM, Daveroski said:

How about you try it and see for yourself? Only take you a few minutes.

I will when I get home. I haven't experienced what you have, but I've also been using this for quite a while:

Im afraid Im not a programmer so I couldn't speak to the exact issue, but I do understand that stock heat management isn't great and I've had no issues since using this mod.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Pthigrivi