Rational Resources 3.0.2 [Sep 24, 2024]

[EimajOzear]

29 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

So... is this sufficient? Do you prefer using gas form or liquid form input for it.

Also, do you prefer gas or liquid inputs for an "Oxidizer (Kerbalism)" converter?

 

 

@JadeOfMaar

This is perfect the way it is, thank you! 

There will be a methane decompressor / thaw process, right?

[JadeOfMaar]

2 minutes ago, EimajOzear said:

This is perfect the way it is, thank you! 

I just replaced that image.  

3 minutes ago, EimajOzear said:

There will be a methane decompressor / thaw process, right?

Yes. The red boxed converter handles that.

 

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 1.7.0

• Added RR Hydro Scoop part for dedicated and more befitting ocean harvester. Related modules no longer populate the XM-G50 intake.
• Added RR Boxed Decompressor (red ZZZ box) for thawing/heating resources and reversing the processes of the RR Boxed Compressor/Freezer.
• Kerbalism integration:
  • Added Alumina, CarbonDioxide, Hydrates, MetalOre, Mopedantte to crustal drills.
  • Added LqdDeuterium, LqdMethane (and changed Ammonia to LqdAmmonia; Nitrogen to LqdNitrogen) to ocean drills.
  • Added all harvester options of the Kerbalism ocean drills to RR Hydro Scoop.
  • Added [Alumina, Hydrates, Mopedantte] Splitters to Convert-O-Trons. These don't seem to be fully functional yet. Will add remaining RR converter setps but this issue waits to be sorted out.
  • Changed Boxed Convert-O-Trons to always populate with stock method resource converter modules and to respect Kerbalism's interpretation of LF and OX (and adjust these fundamental options accordingly).
  • Changed: Stock Convert-O-Trons will not be populated with RR's extraneous converter modules. This cannot be done properly with creating and maintaining a new Kerbalism profile and KerbalismConfig package.
  • Enabled stock XM-G50 intake to use Kerbalism for atmo harvesting.
  • Enabled RR Exo Scoop to use Kerbalism for space harvesting.
• Updated units per volume in Classic Stock B9 tank types: Propellium, PropLox.

DOWNLOAD :: GitHub :: SpaceDock

[EimajOzear]

One last thing!

I noticed you've talked about adding lithium to some templates in the past (about a year ago), but I can't find any when using your converters.

It's a tricky resource, lithium; it's so rare I'm torn on having it included at all unless the abundance is several orders of magnitude lower than hydrogen/hydrates.

What are your thoughts on it now?

[JadeOfMaar]

18 hours ago, EimajOzear said:

lithium

I've wanted to provide it separately, but there's only one niche use for it that I know of, outside of KSPI-E: propellant for the heavy ion engines (the Lithium MPDTs) in NF Propulsion, and that mod adds an Ore --> Lithium chain to the stock Convert-O-Trons. Beyond that I only see the path of producing build recipes for Extraplanetary Launchpads (such that you need portions of specific resources like what was just hinted at as a stock feature of KSP2). And its use case would be for any and all battery or capacitor parts.

I've seen interest from folks who want RR to provide for use cases outside of life support and propellants so I'm not far from actually going in and starting to make such EL recipes. For now, I don't want to provide any additional crustal resources. I'd add or extend converter chains that have Lithium as a byproduct. I'm curious to what use you have for it.

[Not a Spy]

so i want to install because i heard it helps with adding resoruces to planet packs, but i dont want new parts, and i would still like ore to be op, is there a way to do so?

[EimajOzear]

2 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

 I'm curious to what use you have for it.

The use case I had in mind was the MPDTs from NFP. 

I've always been wary of using the included ore -> lithium ISRU chain that NFP adds since it gives way too much lithium for my tastes (since it should be exceptionally rare aside from Earth's/Kerbin's oceans) and it is unaffected by Kerbalism.

However, I'm yet to test it with RR; perhaps the reduced ore abundance may just about balance it.

This is mostly a personal issue: the blanket term of "ore" irks me. With all of the other ISRU chains I'm extracting explicit resources (or at least groups like hydrates/alumina), but with ore, I don't really know what I'm harvesting, especially when there are separate resources for MetalOre and others (which are still a little vague, but not so much).

2 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I'd add or extend converter chains that have Lithium as a byproduct. 

Sounds good! The question is... which ones? 

[SirBlob]

Well im having a weird problem.  

I can´t change the contents of the stock ore tanks to anything but ore and I don´t know why.

Here  is my mod list. I already read about the ConfigurableContainers problem and already removed it but I still can´t change the contents.

Any help would be appreciated.

[JadeOfMaar]

8 hours ago, Not a Spy said:

so i want to install because i heard it helps with adding resoruces to planet packs, but i dont want new parts, and i would still like ore to be op, is there a way to do so?

There are two distinct mod folders in the download. One of these is RationalResourcesParts. Remove or don't install this.

Spoiler

And this will fully restore Ore. Save it as a .cfg file anywhere in GameData.

@GLOBAL_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[Ore]]AFTER[zRationalResources]
{
	@Distribution
	{
		@PresenceChance = 1000
		@MaxAbundance = 15
	}
}

 

@SirBlob Due to how allista setup his mods, "ConfigurableContainers" is still installed just by having 000_AT_Utils (Allista Tech) installed. The ConfigurableContainers folder contains only patches. I didn't think to update my Ore tanks patch to make up for that but you can do it for yourself right away. Go to GameData/RationalResourcesParts/CRP/OreTanks.cfg and change the very first line:

// From
@PART[LargeTank|SmallTank|RadialOreTank|restock-oretank-*]:NEEDS[B9PartSwitch,CommunityResourcePack,!ConfigurableContainers]
  
// To
@PART[LargeTank|SmallTank|RadialOreTank|restock-oretank-*]:NEEDS[B9PartSwitch,CommunityResourcePack,!ConfigurableContainers/Parts]

 

7 hours ago, EimajOzear said:

This is mostly a personal issue: the blanket term of "ore" irks me.

You're not alone there. This is the first reason why this mod reduces Ore's presence to begin with and why it completely removes MKS's Dirt resource (and largely populates planets with Rock instead). While Ore is effectively as dense as Lead, it's conceptually most familiar with Hydrates as far as I gather from how it's used or meant to be used.

7 hours ago, EimajOzear said:

Sounds good! The question is... which ones? 

A new Rock or MetalOre Sifter (Splitter category) chain, or both, perhaps. Rock and MetalOre have sharply decreasing abundance in the four "ice" surface classes (Rock-Ice -> Ice-Water -> Ice-Methane -> Ice-Nitrogen) which would raise difficulty in filling the Ore tanks which could offset the ease of the steady output of Lithium from a sifter converter.

Spoiler

You'll still get some amount of Rock on every class of planet, with a lower Lithium output rate, but MetalOre will not be found on Ice-Methane and Ice-Nitrogen worlds, while MetalOre will yield more Lithium. Sounds like a good trade.

 

[Cucco-Master]

Is it even still possible to build a self-sufficient MKS kolony when using RR (i.e. will some substances just have more complex production chains and require more mining outposts on different locations of a body) or do there tend to be essential end products that are entirely unavailable on a given celestial body and have to be constantly shipped in from other planets?

[SirBlob]

@JadeOfMaar Thank you worked like a charm .

Off to build a methalox plant on duna. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by SirBlob

[JadeOfMaar]

@Cucco-Master If you avoid Ice-Methane and Ice-Nitrogen worlds...

Spoiler

They don't have Uraninite, Gypsum, MetalOre or RareMetals.

I do believe you can still achieve self-sufficiency in MKS. Your USI production chains should only get slightly more complex actually, hopefully not by much. But in total (adding in non-USI), the ISRU chains you use will go up:

• Dirt is gone completely. It's replaced by Rock which is used by both CRP and Angel-125's Classic Stock system. (Planets consisting of 20 ~ 30% Dirt? Please. I'd spare it if its max abundance was < 5%.)
• RR tries to force you into using hydrolox and methalox for fuel (much much less Ore so it's very hard to make LFO; but lots and lots of Hydrates to split for Water, then you split Water for H2 and O2. And if you have a methane world nearby, you can be attracted to exploiting that world for use of engines with greater thrust and Isp than kerolox (represented by LFO), and also attracted to making methalox engine mods. These fuel resource conditions are roughly what's expected IRL so I made them so).

[Cucco-Master]

This sounds pretty good!

I'm totally fine with full self-sufficiency not being possible everywhere as long as in many cases there's still a way. I like this "go to a place and make the most out of what you find there" scenario. I'd just find it a bit too punishing if every single MKS kolony required multiple (manual) supply lines from and to other planets . Not being able to produce all kinds of fuel everywhere is a good thing. It makes you adapt landers and shuttles around what you have and helps keeping things fresh.

I'll give this mod a try!

[somnambulist]

1 hour ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Dirt is gone completely. It's replaced by Rock which is used by both CRP and Angel-125's Classic Stock system. (Planets consisting of 20 ~ 30% Dirt? Please. I'd spare it if its max abundance was < 5%.)

Without Dirt MKS player do need ensure they have access to usable amount of substrate when selecting a site for their base. Either Dirt or Substrate are required for two of MKS's production loops -- without those loops your base will still require occasional resupply.

[Not a Spy]

3 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

There are two distinct mod folders in the download. One of these is RationalResourcesParts. Remove or don't install this.

  Hide contents

And this will fully restore Ore. Save it as a .cfg file anywhere in GameData.

@GLOBAL_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[Ore]]AFTER[zRationalResources]
{
	@Distribution
	{
		@PresenceChance = 1000
		@MaxAbundance = 15
	}
}

 

ok, ive never done this sort of thing before, can you clarify?

 

 

[JadeOfMaar]

@somnambulist Substrate still exists on all worlds, so that's some great news. It bugged me a bit and seems abstract/ is hard to understand since it's an umbrella term and can apply to just about anything.

@Not a Spy Copy the contents of the spoiler into a text editor (I expect you only have MS Notepad or Wordpad) and save it as "something.cfg" in GameData. You can replace "something" with whatever is appropriate like "RationalResourcesFullOre" or just "FullOre" but when you name the file, include the .cfg extension and include the quotes to force Notepad or Wordpad to save it as a .cfg file.

If you don't do the quotes, Notepad will save it as a text file ( .txt ) and KSP will ignore it. You will see FullOre.cfg but it's actually FullOre.cfg.txt because file name extensions are hidden by default.

[EimajOzear]

3 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

 

  Hide contents

You'll still get some amount of Rock on every class of planet, with a lower Lithium output rate, but MetalOre will not be found on Ice-Methane and Ice-Nitrogen worlds, while MetalOre will yield more Lithium. Sounds like a good trade.

 

I agree and I like the idea of rock being present everywhere, but with an exceptionally low lithium concentration. 

[somnambulist]

8 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Substrate still exists on all worlds, so that's some great news. It bugged me a bit and seems abstract/ is hard to understand since it's an umbrella term and can apply to just about anything.

I think the original thread got eaten, but iirc the original use-case for Dirt vs. Substrate was provide a dirt common (literally),  *highly* inefficient fallback resource for all the other raw resources in the MKS chain. e.g., if you're somewhere that's poor in silicates you can still sift trace amounts out of Dirt so you're not completely screwed, just kneecapped until you can setup a supply chain for the missing resource. Substrate emerged as a way to have an abstract raw resource that, while not as common as dirt, was still more common than minerals, rare metals, etc. MKS uses it as a parent for polymers but being able to pull aluminum out if it (with a ton of EC) would also be a reasonable use-case. 

[dlrk]

On the ISRU tables on the first page, does Hydrolox and Methalox refer to a single new resource by that name (not sure why this would be), or outputs of both LH2/LO2 and LCH4/LO2 respectively?

[JadeOfMaar]

1 hour ago, dlrk said:

outputs of both LH2/LO2 and LCH4/LO2 respectively?

This bit is correct.

[Cucco-Master]

If I use an unsupported planet pack with this and then add the templates myself during a running save (i.e. once I found the respective planet with Research Bodies), will it still have an effect or must I start a new game to make changes?

[JadeOfMaar]

The effect would be immediate. (Once you restart KSP after setting a template, of course.)

[dlrk]

19 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

This bit is correct.

Thanks!

[Iodyne]

I've just recently installed and have been playing around a bit. Really loving the variety of fuels. 

------------------------

Sorry if this is a lot but I have a few questions...

1) Is there currently a distinction between Oxidizer and LqdOxygen/LOX? It seems from previous posts there wasn't but now they're separate if I understand correctly? On one hand it oxidizer could work as a general term (like with the RR SRBs), but the fact that the resource conversion is the same as for LqdOxygen implies it is specifically so. Is LqdOxygen only kept around so it's name is more inline with the other resources? I can't seem to see any instance in which it is different than Oxidizer. 

2) I don't know a lot about the internal workings of rocket engines but I noticed that the "Maine Coon" and has the built-in uranium->thermalPower module while the two LV-N engines do not, despite them all being "nuclear thermal" engines.

3) Is phosphorus intended for other modmakers to use (are there any now?) or is it just supposed to be a moneymaker?

4) Can water be made available as a tank switch for all the other thanks instead of just in the storage/holding/ore tanks? (For the LV-N-O water).

-----------------------------

Additionally, I'm having a bug with the NERV-O and -R's fairing texture. The two fairing texture variants are overlapping (I'm not sure whether the variants are squad, restock, or both). Here's log and screenshots.

 

---------------------------------------

Also, I know this is a relatively old post @TackleMcClean made, but couldn't this:

On 9/13/2019 at 12:43 PM, TackleMcClean said:

 

Ah never mind, solved it. I should not have TankswitchExtras.cfg installed. Removing it fixed it for me.

be solved by just changing the last section in the config from

@PART:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]]:NEEDS[B9PartSwitch,CryoTanks,RationalResourcesSquad]:AFTER[zzz_CryoTanks] {

to

@PART:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]]:NEEDS[B9PartSwitch,CryoTanks,RationalResourcesSquad,Kopernicus,GU]:AFTER[zzz_CryoTanks] {

since the B9TankType at the beginning relies on GU and Kopernicus as well?

 

----------------------------------------------------------

Lastly, I made a patch to add a CCK category for RR and I put these icons in not knowing if that is okay (I can totally remove them if need be).

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1jrVcj6euQU9AWcNuhZlW7OanDnnaU9Cq?usp=sharing

Edited July 23, 2020 by Iodyne

[JadeOfMaar]

6 hours ago, Iodyne said:

1) Is there currently a distinction between Oxidizer and LqdOxygen/LOX? It seems from previous posts there wasn't but now they're separate if I understand correctly? On one hand it oxidizer could work as a general term (like with the RR SRBs), but the fact that the resource conversion is the same as for LqdOxygen implies it is specifically so. Is LqdOxygen only kept around so it's name is more inline with the other resources? I can't seem to see any instance in which it is different than Oxidizer. 

2) I don't know a lot about the internal workings of rocket engines but I noticed that the "Maine Coon" and has the built-in uranium->thermalPower module while the two LV-N engines do not, despite them all being "nuclear thermal" engines.

3) Is phosphorus intended for other modmakers to use (are there any now?) or is it just supposed to be a moneymaker?

4) Can water be made available as a tank switch for all the other thanks instead of just in the storage/holding/ore tanks? (For the LV-N-O water).

Hey there.

1. Actually I think there is no distinction (in practice). I setup LqdOxygen because, at first, I wanted to try and escape from using abstract Oxidizer, or to have it around in case certain mods do use it, like: if Kerbalism: for breathable air and for mixing it with LH2 to make Hydrogen Peroxide (its interpretation of Oxidizer fuel). It may happen as an input or output of other ISRU chains like the CO2 Fuser or Splitter.
2. I didn't realize that inconsistency, actually. I took the idea for the Maine Coon's behavior from the same in the nuclear jets in Mk2 and Mk3 Expansion. The purpose of this behavior is mainly to give the engine a half-life or make it seem less easy or OP (seeing as its fuel, without the reactor behavior, is solely the infinite intake resource). I'd kinda like to see the nuclear rockets have this but it would add complexity that nobody really wants.
3. Phosphorus is just a money maker but it has an unspoken significance in life support. Nobody else uses it and I don't expect that to change.
4. Absolutely! I didn't think much of it as a propellant then but I see it differently now (after recently being pointed to documentation for a microwave water ion concept engine). Look for a clone of the Dawn, the "RR MET" engine.

Concerning the NERVAs' fairings, it's likely overlap between the Squad and non-Restock variant switchers. I'm sure I had that covered.

The Cryo He3 tank config was fixed quite a while ago.

Thanks. I'll use the CCK stuff. It'll be necessary as I've started writing configs for other mods' parts to work with RR, like Stockalike Mining Expansion and Far Future Tech's Hydrogen scanner and scoop.