Rational Resources 3.0.2 [Sep 24, 2024]

[JadeOfMaar]

3 hours ago, EdisonMaxwell said:

That's the water resource I'm talking about. Its the only water like resource that shows up and only on the spherical tanks. I have not seen this mod's version of water in any tank. I also want to point out that this mod's versions of the NERVA engine don't show up in the regular parts list.

RR Squad adds classic Water to the options of the fuel tanks of many mods that use B9PS for fuel switching (but excludes CryoTanks and excludes the stock tanks since IFS patches them and has conflicted with RR Squad). RR Companion also adds classic Water among many options to any compatible Ore tank but for ISRU uses only as Ore tanks are probably very bad for use as propellant tanks.

Now that I think of it, I don't think RR adds its signature "extra" cryofuel options (Ammonia, Carbon Monoxide, Carbon Dioxide, Nitrogen, Water) to the CryoTanks parts. I will see about that.

[noaa_satellite]

@JadeOfMaarSorry if I'm missing something here but I can't figure this out: how do I get the full resource chain options? Right now the stock ISRU converter parts only have the basic CryoTanks configs (I think) and the RR boxed converter parts only have the "Kerolox A" process. I can't find anything that has the splitter processes or really any of the advanced conversions described in the wiki.

This is in 1.12.5 with RationalResources, RationalResourcesCompanion, and RationalResourcesParts installed. Cryotanks and KSRSS are installed. The "CRP" mode is enabled (by default) in the WBT mode menu.

I heard something about an "opt in" system- what exactly is it/how does it work? Is that what I did wrong here?

Thanks!

[noaa_satellite]

Update: So I think I fixed the problem I was having by going in to RationalResourcesCompanion/CRP/Opt-in_ConvertOTrons.cfg and removing ":NEEDS[!KerbalismDefault,!Pathfinder]" from the first line. I think the converters are functional now, but it's weird that that would fix it since I don't have Kerbalism or Pathfinder installed (I do have other WildBlue mods tho). Pretty strange but I think it works now.

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 1.50

• Rebalanced Uraninite conversion in RationalResourcesBlacksmith.
• Added FusionPellets to squad tanks via RationalResourcesSquad.
• Updates to RationalResourcesCompanion:
  • Added Minerals tank option to Ore tanks for use by RR's EL recipes.
  • Minor tooltip fix.
• Added engines to opt-in of RationalResourcesNuclearFamily:
  • NF Aero's Project Eeloo.
  •  Sterling Systems' SULEU NTRs.
• Updates to RationalResourcesELUtilities:
  • Added elementary config for SandCastle recipes. (Parts will generally require Metals and Minerals now.)
  • Changed some EL tanks to use B9 resource switching and hid the rest

The EL tanks, grouped and decluttered:

Changed SandCastle recipe demonstration:

Edited October 29, 2023 by JadeOfMaar

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 1.51

• Added engines to opt-in of RationalResourcesNuclearFamily:
  • NF Aero's J-N160 'Fireflash.' (Both NFA nukejets are in now.)
• Localized Ore tank option titles.
• Updated behaviors and balancing of RationalResourcesNuclearFamily.

[kaputzz]

Hello @JadeOfMaar, I'm testing some mods for a new career and I found it quite difficult to setup a typical liquid fuel/oxidizer production chain with Kerbalism and RR...  At least if I had an idea of how the resources are distributed accross the planets (im using Kopernicus and OPM) it would be easier to plan when and where to setup the first colony of the playthrough and which process chains to use.. can you help?. I'm really sorry if this is offtopic..  Last time I had a chance to play I got stuck in finding Carbon Dioxide to harvest and the best concentration i got was around the Sun, which seems not a very practical place to have a "refuel station"... have a good day and thank you in advance!

Edited November 17, 2023 by kaputzz

[JadeOfMaar]

Hi @kaputzz. RR introduces a template system so all compatible planets are given a particular resource combo per resource type (surface, ocean, atmo, exo) and per the planet's supposed realistic composition.

Firstly
All planets that have an RR config will have an abundance of resources that are relevant to Kerbalism (and other life support mods) as well as to cryofuel and off-world construction mods so you should never be lacking (unless you choose to land on the wrong planet type for your mission). You will find 3 science parts that are RR Scanners. They detect resources in what situation you pick the parts for. The stock narrowband scanner now includes an experiment that tells you what the planet's RR templates are (if the planet pack has a config for non-default results for the experiment). It will generally let you know from high orbit, low orbit or landed. (Poor man's SpaceDust scanner lol.)

You will lack the Kerbalism-focused resources because Kerbalism itself lacks in the configs for these resources, and CRP primarily cares about USI-focused resources.

 

Secondly
About planning and resource chains, you can look at the opening post and the github wiki for information starting with what ISRU chains are out there. RR Companion provides ISRU part integration (including Ore tanks) and recommends Stockalike Mining Extension for more options for harvesters. You have chances to find and grab CO2 in atmospheres, in exospheres (more likely at airless worlds) and in surfaces like some ice planets or the ice caps of some planets.

Spoiler

I generally don't do biome-specific configs so I don't remember if there's CO2 waiting to be mined in Duna's ice caps. But you can absolutely grab its atmo.

Spoiler

If you can't get CO2 directly then you have the option ro run the Carbon Extractor converter on Ore, have a tank of pure Carbon, then run the Carbon Fuser process (with onboard Oxygen, not Oxidizer) to produce CO2. The Carbon Extractor is ideally similar to the MRE process which frees Oxygen from the ground. It's just "What if the MRE freed other things that we didn't consider useful at the time?"

 

Thirdly
If you're using regular LFO I'd suggest trying Hydrogen and Hydrolox sometime. It's really easy to get your hands on Hydrogen or water so might as well build your propulsion systems around it. (Tankage for it will be a bother, of course, but should be less so than hunting for CO2.)

[kaputzz]

Hello @JadeOfMaar thank you so much for answering! Im fairly new into this mods world and i'm having around 150 with kerbalism, I never know where the issues reside  at times i cant tell if there's an issue at all, or is just like that.

Based on what I understood, this time, everything is working as "expected"...

Yes, I'm using Stockalike Mining Extension,  Space Dust and SD Unbound and RR with RR Squad,  RR RCS and Nuclear Family, RR EL utilities, RR Kerbalism, RR Parts and RR Companion. 

And I have Extraplanetary Launchpads too.. which, from what i can remember of my tests, basically allows me to harvest metal ore (everywhere, because of those Auger drills) and turn it into ships. the single resource involved is a bit of oxidizer. the ships will be crafted with full tanks.... it seemed to me. So i was considering this as a workaround for all the other processes. was just trying to have the oxidizer produced on site too.. Am I wrong?

I must have missed the process to get Carbon Dioxide from Ore - or maybe the issue was finding pure Carbon, cant remember... And I certainly didnt check Duna Icecaps because I wanted to get the resource in space... 

Regarding your third point, I was really avoiding to have more fuels. I wish I could have only stock resources and life support to be honest - and yet here we are. I'm also using Near Future (and planning to have FF tech too). Would you recommend those fuels for any of these mods?

Thank you for all your help and mods! cheers!

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by kaputzz

[JadeOfMaar]

@kaputzz I imagine you may still have a hard time getting CO2 in orbit. But congrats wherever you do. The chances are non-zero if nothing else.

EL likely does not create the resources for the ship while creating the ship. That's out of scope for it imo (though, the capability is there) so I find myself building my construction base with ample tankage to be drawn from when the ship spawns. And possibly, everyone does the same.

You would have missed it with getting Carbon from Ore. Carbon itself won't be found in the wild and Kerbalism wouldn't care about getting CO2 from some other resource.

Hard to believe that you're avoiding more fuels while having 150+ mods installed and considering installing NFP and FFT. I can't recommend (or not) a certain fuel for a certain mod. The fuel is usually dictated by that mod. But I can agree with your consideration of NFP for its ion engines. I'm rather fond of ArgonGas because it grants higher Isp and is more common so it's supposed to be quicker to produce than Xenon (so I made it so). And I'm fond of Lithium because it's a metal so it offers high TWR (among ion fuels) comfortable for manned vessels. Once you can work out an ion drive ecosystem like this, I believe you will have less need for your interplanetary ships to run on LiquidFuel. If you consider Hydrogen fueled engines then you have the bother of dealing with boiloff but you can find Hydrogen or water in more places, near airless ice worlds and near gas giants, and never have to land for any step of the refuel operation. If you go the way of FFT then you should be able to get by with just harvesting Deuterium and Helium-3 (or even Antimatter) in the orbits of gas giants.

[kaputzz]

jesus, i really gotta study xD 

yes, I had a hard time finding CO2 in orbit, except when orbiting the sun itself.. for some reason.. im barely aware of these resources distribution or processes in real life, so i really need to read about it everytime..

With EL, I was going to bet the ship would be fully tanked when created in the workshop.. No?? i still have to fuel it? what? I only noticed that I would need oxydizer while the ship was under construction..

Well, regarding NF, i loved the parts, all of them: solar, exp, spacecraft, iva props,... so i downloaded the propulsion too and didnt care about the new fuels lol. it doesnt change anything else and i could easilly dismiss respective engines..

With the same logic, I was considering FFT because I still don't have mods for late-game / interstellar, if i want to make the system bigger.

The problem is... If I dont have the resources processment right, I won't need them neither. so that's where i am at, with my tests.. i was trying to set up several "refineries" and see what works best for a  stations and colonies in sandbox..  and still im struggling.. But thanks for all the tips. I get back to the game when I can and report back too.

Thank you so much again

 

 

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 1.60

• Added extra: RationalResourcesJetFamily.

  • Please update RationalResourcesSquad if you use it, to delete its SquadJets configs (or just delete these manually).
  • Increases ElectricCharge demand on electric engines.

• Added rebalance patches for Kerbalism reliability:

  • RationalResourcesKerbalism now provides this to ion engines, stock and mod. (Detection logic is currently basic: If the engine eats Xenon, Argon or Lithium, it is assumed to be an ion engine. Mis-catches may occur) Ion engines now have 3 years MTBF and a few years of burn time.
  • RationalResourcesKerbalism now provides this to Squad NERV and Restock+ Cherenkov. Atomic engines now have 1 year MTBF and 2+ days burn time.
  • RationalResourcesNuclearFamily now provides this to all tagged engines. These engines now have 1 year MTBF and 2+ days burn time.

 

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 1.60.1

• Added mods to the opt-in of RationalResourcesJetFamily, RationalResourcesNuclearFamily, RationalResourcesRCSFamily where appropriate:
  • Mk2 Expansion, Mk3 Expansion, SXT, WaterDrinker.
  • Excluding RCS parts that are also engines or have multiple RCS module.
  • Excluding pure electric jet engines.
• Updated RationalResourcesKerbalism:
  • Added SolidFuel ion detection. This covers the Supplementary Electrical Engines mod.

 

Hi again, @HebaruSan. CKAN addition time.

Rational Resources Jet Family

• Location: Extras/
• Abstract: Enables fuel switching in air-breathing engines. A very welcome companion to cryo rocket systems.
• Tags: config, convenience
• Suggests: CryoEngines, NearFutureAeronautics, Mk2Expansion, Mk3Expansion, SXTContinued, WaterDrinker. (Netkan names given)
• Dependencies: ModuleManager

[JonnyOThan]

12 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

A very welcome companion to cryo rocket systems.

rocket systems..?

Oh I'm dumb, never mind.

Edited November 21, 2023 by JonnyOThan

[JonnyOThan]

15 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

CKAN addition time.

Do you want to review this before we submit? https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/NetKAN/pull/9853/files

I added dependencies on B9PS and either CRP or ClassicStockResources.  Installing this without one of those two seems to break engines.

Update: submitted!

Edited November 21, 2023 by JonnyOThan

[avectorproductfox]

I've hit an odd bug that I'm not sure where exactly to post about:

When I have RR with the EL utility, Extraplanetary Launchpads, and System Heat all installed, the rocket part production converter on the EL workshop breaks. Sometimes it seems that the metals resource is used up but other times the metal ore remains static. Either way, effectively no rocket parts are created. The name of the action on the workshop even changes from "Start Part Production" to "Start MetalWork."

A pair of each mod works fine: RR with EL utilities + EL is good; RR + System Heat is good; EL + System Heat is good; but as soon as I install the third, the parts production process stops functioning. I've tried poking around in the files for RR_EL-CRP.cfg but didn't see anything obvious there.

That all said, the rocket part production functionality is there when I don't have the EL Utility installed, so, guess I'll stick with that as a fix and some longer supply chains, for now. Argh!

Spoiler

Log File

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 1.61

• Fix EL System Heat problems. @avectorproductfox
• Replace Carbon Extractor process with Ore Splitter which outputs Oxygen and Carbon.
• Split ion engine reliability buffs from RationalResourcesKerbalism into new modlet, KerbalismSidePatches.
• Split nuke engine reliability buffs from RationalResourcesNuclearFamily into new modlet, KerbalismSidePatches.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by JadeOfMaar

[EimajOzear]

For NTRs with switchable modes like the Scylla aerospike, it seems only the pure LH2 mode "RR_RedAgent" (and not the LOx -augmented mode) eat into the Kerbalism reliability burn time and ignitions.

 

Edit 1: Also, for Engines such as the Cherenkov, there are two options for selecting engine reliability, one with a MTBF and the other like a standard NTR

 

Edit 2: I've narrowed down the duplicate "engine quality" to Kerbalism Side Patches, but the issue where the LH2 mode only reduces ignitions/burn time remains

Edited December 19, 2023 by EimajOzear

[JadeOfMaar]

Howdy @EimajOzear. Sorry. Kerbalism wasn't coded with provisions/expectations for bimodal NTRs so there's nothing I can do about that. I released an update to RR Nuclear Family simultaneously with Kerbalism Side Ptches. To prevent the exact duplicate reliability selector problem, the RRNF update is that it has stopped providing the same.

[Hide1nbush1]

So When I started my game I got a lot of errors like on the picture https://imgur.com/a/R4SBYnN and when I removed this mod and the nuclear ,parts and the kerbalism one they were gone. How do I fix this ?

Here is my Log https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A1RwKgo9QRD4NH9QkPX30253JWbZ_KqW/view?usp=drive_link.

[JadeOfMaar]

18 hours ago, Hide1nbush1 said:

So When I started my game I got a lot of errors like on the picture https://imgur.com/a/R4SBYnN and when I removed this mod and the nuclear ,parts and the kerbalism one they were gone. How do I fix this ?

Here is my Log https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A1RwKgo9QRD4NH9QkPX30253JWbZ_KqW/view?usp=drive_link.

I've seen this one before. Skyhawk Science System conflicts with RR Nuclear Family by causing RNNF's patches to try to run twice for the engines in certain mods. See this post for how to deal with it:

I'll do an update sometime that hopefully stops this.

Edited December 31, 2023 by JadeOfMaar

[JadeOfMaar]

On 6/22/2021 at 5:18 PM, king of nowhere said:

i ended up here because they told me this handles kerbalism resources. and there are a few things that seem broken, or wrong.

for start, the surface scanning module does not show nitrogen. it shows every other resource, but the only way to detect nitrogen is to carry a nitrogen drill. looks like a bug.

then, there is the lack of water on outer planets that's completely irrealistic. As far as dres the resources distribution is well done. But further than that, water ice is the single most common substance found in planetary crusts. And yet...

bop is completely without water. Pol has so little of it, it cannot be mined. I did not run extensive tests, but even Vall is low on water, with it completely missing on many biomes - and it's supposed to be an ice ball. even minmus is water free, despite it also being described as a slushball.

it gets even worse with the outer planets mod: plock has no water or nitrogen, despite its real world analogue being made mostly of those.

I think you should increase water value on all the outer planets. it's irrealistic for a moon of jool to have no water.

 

on the other hand, i read on the first post that mun is supposed to miss water and uraninite entirely, while it has both - something i'm not complaining about, refueling opportunities are rare in the inner system

Howdy. I hope this is the post you mentioned. Let me help clear some air here.

• I stopped patching the stock Surface Scanner and provided additional parts, namely the "RR Gound Scanner" which will detect Nitrogen. But it can only be found on ice planets. (It is only regarded as a thing that occurs in ice form and is not regarded as a hint at the presence of life on a given planet.)
• The case is similar with water. It is largely available or regarded (in a bulk, pure form) in the crusts of ice type worlds but is absolutely available in any ocean that would reasonably be assumed to be mainly water. Instead, this mod pushes you to mine Hydrates which is a primary water-bearing abstract resource and is useful for the various valuables you can get from it via the Hydrates Splitter process in RR Companion. Hydrates is quite abundant across planets covered by RR. You cannot miss it.
• Bop, Pol and Vall are "Ice/Water" type so they should unavoidably have 13 ~ 23% water in them. I can't imagine why this is not the case for you, if it still is, even now.
• I'm not sure what to say about Mun but I'm not going to rush to kill the Uraninite presence. Mun should have water concentration in its polar craters biome...but my attention to biome resources (at large) is very low because it takes an order of magnitude more effort to ensure that each biome does or doesn't have X, Y and Z.

[king of nowhere]

9 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Howdy. I hope this is the post you mentioned. Let me help clear some air here.

• I stopped patching the stock Surface Scanner and provided additional parts, namely the "RR Gound Scanner" which will detect Nitrogen. But it can only be found on ice planets. (It is only regarded as a thing that occurs in ice form and is not regarded as a hint at the presence of life on a given planet.)
• The case is similar with water. It is largely available or regarded (in a bulk, pure form) in the crusts of ice type worlds but is absolutely available in any ocean that would reasonably be assumed to be mainly water. Instead, this mod pushes you to mine Hydrates which is a primary water-bearing abstract resource and is useful for the various valuables you can get from it via the Hydrates Splitter process in RR Companion. Hydrates is quite abundant across planets covered by RR. You cannot miss it.

I see. Unfortunately, kerbalism does not allow mining hydrates, at least it didn't one year ago.

But that's a kerbalism issue, nothing to do with this mod

[avectorproductfox]

6 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

I see. Unfortunately, kerbalism does not allow mining hydrates, at least it didn't one year ago.

But that's a kerbalism issue, nothing to do with this mod

@king of nowhere I’m not sure if this is the place for this discussion, but, I’ve been playing with Kerbalism and RR and have been able to mine hydrates just fine! What I’ve found with kerbalism + RR, after I attach drills to a vessel, I can right click on them to change the type of extractor, similar to changing processes like scrubbers/water recyclers, or unmanned experiments. 

[king of nowhere]

2 hours ago, avectorproductfox said:

@king of nowhere I’m not sure if this is the place for this discussion, but, I’ve been playing with Kerbalism and RR and have been able to mine hydrates just fine! What I’ve found with kerbalism + RR, after I attach drills to a vessel, I can right click on them to change the type of extractor, similar to changing processes like scrubbers/water recyclers, or unmanned experiments. 

The only drills i had available were ore, water, nitrogen, uraninite. No option to drill hydrates.

But my installation is a couple years old - i modified it to create bigger chemical plants needed for my grand tours, and i was loathe to lose all that work. So, it is fully possible that the newer versions did include hydrates drills. Or maybe it worked for you because you installed rational resources separately.

Whatever the reason, i am happy that the mod now works as intended. My missions using it are long since finished anyway, and despite the idyosyncratic resource distribution, the actual purpose I had - that of adding to the challenge by restricting possible refueling spots to a handful of planets - was fulfilled

Edited December 31, 2023 by king of nowhere

[Shoey]

Does anyone have any advice for harvesting LqdHe3 with FFT? I tried using the exosphere scoop in orbit of JNSQ Mun with 0.814% LqdHe3 but couldn't get anything.