Relativity Space (future launch provider)

[YNM]

Way I see this, seems like "standard" TSTO where you can land the 1st and 2nd stage. Payload seems to be completely external to the 2nd stage ? idk.

[tater]

Just now, YNM said:

Payload seems to be completely external to the 2nd stage ? idk.

?

Looks like it has a chomper. Or is that what you mean?

[YNM]

4 minutes ago, tater said:

Looks like it has a chomper. Or is that what you mean?

idk, looks too long to me for a payload bay cover a-la SH/SS... Seems like the 2nd stage is separate from the payload fairing.

EDIT : Just looked in detail. Alright yeah there's an extra break line on the very end, so payload bay it is. At 20 tonnes payload capacity sounds like a slightly smaller Saturn-Shuttle to me, without the stupid wings.

That being said since this is still a paper rocket we'll have to see how it goes later.

Edited June 8, 2021 by YNM

[tater]

It's clear 40s into the video.

[GuessingEveryDay]

14 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Looks like, similarly to that, part of the interstage is on the booster and the other part is on the 2nd stage.

Now that I look at it, the shape of the 2nd stage also gives me strong 2017 BFR vibes:

Looks like they'll do what SpaceX isn't doing.

[tater]

13 minutes ago, GuessingEveryDay said:

Looks like they'll do what SpaceX isn't doing.

We'll see what if anything they do.

Presumably they start stacking their small rocket in the not too distant future. (a year?)

They need to start showing stage tests, they have engines in stand fire tests at least.

Edited June 8, 2021 by tater

[tater]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/08/relativity-space-raises-650-million-for-3d-printed-spacex-competitor.html

Still aiming for a test launch of their smaller rocket late this year.

[RCgothic]

First rival to respond to Starship rather than F9. Kudos.

[tater]

1 minute ago, RCgothic said:

First rival to respond to Starship rather than F9. Kudos.

Yeah, we'll have to see if they can actually make something that works, but seems interesting.

 

[SpaceFace545]

21 hours ago, tater said:

Not seeing the legs on the Terran R booster

There are some ports on the black engine fairing, perhaps landing legs come out of that.

14 hours ago, RCgothic said:

First rival to respond to Starship rather than F9. Kudos.

It’s not even in the same payload class as starship? 

I honestly think this thing’s second stage will land with parachutes. It only has a vacuum optimized engine so I’ll assume that’s going to be ineffective in the lower atmosphere. There also isn’t a heat shield so maybe ballute recovery and inflatable heatshields? I’m really digging this designed by nature stuff because it looks a lot like they used AI to optimize the shape of the gridfins!

Edited June 9, 2021 by SpaceFace545

[GuessingEveryDay]

1 hour ago, SpaceFace545 said:

It’s not even in the same payload class as starship?

But it's the first one to try and challenge Starship's reusability.

[tater]

1 hour ago, SpaceFace545 said:

There are some ports on the black engine fairing, perhaps landing legs come out of that.

Interesting. Swings out sideways?

Like this?

 

1 hour ago, SpaceFace545 said:

It’s not even in the same payload class as starship? 

I honestly think this thing’s second stage will land with parachutes. It only has a vacuum optimized engine so I’ll assume that’s going to be ineffective in the lower atmosphere. There also isn’t a heat shield so maybe ballute recovery and inflatable heatshields? I’m really digging this designed by nature stuff because it looks a lot like they used AI to optimize the shape of the gridfins!

Hard to tell, parachutes seems unlikely to me unless it has skids and lands like that parafoil plan for Gemini.

[SpaceFace545]

2 hours ago, GuessingEveryDay said:

But it's the first one to try and challenge Starship's reusability.

Ah, that’s what you meant.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

Maybe they’ll use some kind of aerospike for the upper stage?

[SpaceFace545]

5 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Maybe they’ll use some kind of aerospike for the upper stage?

No, it’s the aeon vac, just a regular vacuum rocket engine.

[GuessingEveryDay]

7 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Maybe they’ll use some kind of aerospike for the upper stage?

1 minute ago, SpaceFace545 said:

No, it’s the aeon vac, just a regular vacuum rocket engine.

Besides, for it to land, it'll need gimballing.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

4 minutes ago, GuessingEveryDay said:

Besides, for it to land, it'll need gimballing.

I mean vacuum engines can gimbal. 
Maybe they plan to use the AeonV to land? I don’t know how over-expanded it would be. 

[GuessingEveryDay]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

I mean vacuum engines can gimbal. 
Maybe they plan to use the AeonV to land? I don’t know how over-expanded it would be. 

What about flow seperation?

[SpaceFace545]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

I mean vacuum engines can gimbal. 
Maybe they plan to use the AeonV to land? I don’t know how over-expanded it would be. 

From a very small picture of what I think is Aeon Vac, the nozzle looks like it has a decently sizable nozzle ratio. 

[tater]

If they land propulsively then the vac engine need not be exclusively vacuum. It can lose some I_sp and be dual use. Alternately, perhaps it is light enough to have a vac engine, AND landing engines. The initial F9 stage 2 reuse idea had landing engines.

Assuming they do a flip, they only need to kill whatever the terminal velocity is moving sideways. Small landing engines might also allow hover, which simplifies things.

[SpaceFace545]

1 hour ago, tater said:

If they land propulsively then the vac engine need not be exclusively vacuum. It can lose some I_sp and be dual use. Alternately, perhaps it is light enough to have a vac engine, AND landing engines. The initial F9 stage 2 reuse idea had landing engines.

Assuming they do a flip, they only need to kill whatever the terminal velocity is moving sideways. Small landing engines might also allow hover, which simplifies things.

I assume it would flip in the upper atmosphere like the original BFR instead of doing a insanely close flip over the landing pad like starship. Other than being silver and being fully reusable I doubt it will have many other similarities to starship.

[RealKerbal3x]

5 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

I assume it would flip in the upper atmosphere like the original BFR instead of doing a insanely close flip over the landing pad like starship. Other than being silver and being fully reusable I doubt it will have many other similarities to starship.

I think BFR was still meant to do a flip pretty close to the ground. There's a landing simulation video for it that shows the flip and landing burn start at a high altitude, but that's a simulation of landing on Mars with the thinner atmosphere.

Besides, doing the flip maneuver close to the ground is way more efficient, as it maximises the time spent aerodynamically decelerating and minimises time spent burning propellant for a propulsive landing.

[SpaceFace545]

3 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Besides, doing the flip maneuver close to the ground is way more efficient, as it maximises the time spent aerodynamically decelerating and minimises time spent burning propellant for a propulsive landing.

But unlike starship, bfr psychically couldn’t flip in the thicker parts of the atmosphere. It had enough control for the upper atmosphere but that’s it. 

[RealKerbal3x]

Just now, SpaceFace545 said:

But unlike starship, bfr psychically couldn’t flip in the thicker parts of the atmosphere. It had enough control for the upper atmosphere but that’s it. 

Yeah you're right, now that I think of it it literally only had a couple of relatively tiny split flaps in that delta wing thing. 

[SpaceFace545]

2 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Yeah you're right, now that I think of it it literally only had a couple of relatively tiny split flaps in that delta wing thing. 

I think In the lower atmosphere BFR would turn into a dart