adsii1970 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 I consider Kerbal Space Program 2 a completely different game than Kerbal Space Program (the one we are playing now). I've played computer games since PC World magazine had the program script published needed to program a knock-off copy of Pong into Basic. At the age of 12, I spent three days on my TRS-80 programming it in, then another week debugging the bugger... Since those days, computer gaming has come a long way. SimCity 2K was a completely different game than the original SimCity. As was SimCity 3000 and eventually SimCity 4. Sure, each had a basic program idea, but each had their own challenges, their own set of rewards, and their own unique problems per version. Same title, same basic premise, yet very different games. Not to mention the newer ideas in city building simulators. Cities:Skylines is picking up where SimCity 4 left off... The Civilization franchise is also a lot different now than the original or last four sequels. Yet you can find players of the game still holding on very dearly to their "favorite" version. I still play Civ IV, V, and now IV. The Tropico series, still the same thing. They are now on Tropico 6... I think KSP2 will be the same way. Give it a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfire32 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 it's not gonna do anything to the original...because you'll still able to play it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModZero Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 23 hours ago, Thelizard said: Im sorry but more Minecraft, when Microsoft acquired Mojang, they didn't make Minecraft 2 ...they did though. They didn't put a "2" on the name, but for all intents and purposes they did exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78stonewobble Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 It's a moot point. I can't play either without admitting my windows 3.11 has faults... Or in the words of Ted Mosby: "sometimes spiders gotta die so trees can grow". No, more seriously and fundamentally you can't both change things and have them stay the same. One or the other, not both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenCoop24 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) On 8/23/2019 at 8:53 PM, Thelizard said: By making a sequel we effectively admit that the first had core flaws that couldn't be fixed with an updat Yeah, in every game there are core flaws, but the flaws, bugs, and glitches are what give KSP that not only the educational aspect to it, but a humor factor that allow YouTube channels like Nexter's Laboratory and Danny 2462 to exist. Every game will eventually need a sequel, with ever increasing software and hardware capabilities, eventually it will be too hard to add to the game via update, making a new game allows the KSP franchise to future proof for the coming generations of Unity and content that would be a huge challenge to add to KSP 1. Edited August 25, 2019 by ChickenCoop24 Typo correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Baginski Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 On 8/24/2019 at 2:07 AM, Ultimate Steve said: Which is completely true. The first one was a passion project by a guy who hadn't made a big game before and a studio that hadn't made a game before, with a few subsequent developer teams taking over and tacking things onto a game that was never designed with those things in mind over the course of eight years. A ground up rewrite with a roadmap would lead to better integration of features and less lag (both because of the ground up optimization and because of taking advantage of a newer version of the game engine) along with a few other benefits. There's another factor, potentially affecting all games, big changes in the works in how the various operating systems handle graphics. So KSP2 could be written to handle the new systems. But I tried to look this up, and I'm now even more confused. Still, it looks as though Apple and Microsoft are making changes that make a new version a good idea. Trouble is, I use Linux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartybum Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) On 8/24/2019 at 10:53 AM, Thelizard said: By making a sequel we effectively admit that the first had core flaws that couldn't be fixed with an update. You might wanna get off that high horse before it buckles underneath the weight of your misplaced pride lol. You didn't make the game - you're just a consumer like the rest of us. It's okay to admit KSP has flaws that can't be fixed without a major rewrite sinking countless hours to the point that it becomes an uneconomic decision to do so for free. Edited August 25, 2019 by Bartybum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilkoot Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Naw - KSP2 is almost exactly what I've been wanting for years - bring it on: Meaningful off-world bases that can be used to extended Kerbalkind's footprint off-world VABs (surface and orbital) with in-situ resource harvesting and production Next-gen tech that can be researched/earned You could do all this with mods, but it was clunky, slow and buggy with even medium-sized vessels/bases. I still want to see something like ScanSAT as core function. Whether KIS/KAS features would be useful remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtemisAZ Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) Eh I wouldn't worry too much my lad mcdudebro guy person thing. Kerbal Space Program will always still be around and there will always be a niche part of the community that will prefer the first KSP compared the second, such as me for example but that's more related to the fact I'm a pretentious contrarian with my head so far up my bum that when I fart I yodel. A game never truly dies out man and given the impact KSP has made on the gaming scene as a whole there's not a lot that can ruin what it has cemented. If you want a good example of this my dude look at the og Doom and all the sequels of it, it's still loved, played, and cherished even if it is not shiny and has a bunch of bells and whistles all over the place. These magnificent little bug eyed green midgets and their flying machine ain't going away until universal heat death finally sets in and that's like only 20 years or so from now so there ain't nothing stopping you from enjoying KSP, sequel or not. Edited August 25, 2019 by Krulliam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lajoswinkler Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 I do agree that all this could've been done as KSP v2.0 instead of KSP 2. So basically same game, but new, upgraded engine. Right now we are at KSP v1.7.x and there would be plenty of time to suddenly switch to v2.0. An entirely new game is a marketing thing because now you have to buy it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klgraham1013 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 On 8/23/2019 at 7:53 PM, Thelizard said: By making a sequel we effectively admit that the first had core flaws that couldn't be fixed with an update. Hey! Look! You answered your own question! On 8/23/2019 at 8:20 PM, rmaine said: And since when is it a bad thing to admit to flaws, when they do in fact exist? About 2010 I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartybum Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, lajoswinkler said: An entirely new game is a marketing thing because now you have to buy it again. Well that's definitely part of it, but can you really blame them? KSP 1.x's source code is almost a decade old now, and the effort to update it to modern standards would likely be economically prohibitive. It's been said heaps of times in this thread already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lajoswinkler Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bartybum said: Well that's definitely part of it, but can you really blame them? KSP 1.x's source code is almost a decade old now, and the effort to update it to modern standards would likely be economically prohibitive. It's been said heaps of times in this thread already. It's just a matter of naming the product. Sure, use new stuff, make it modern, that's all good, but KSP v2.0 instead of KSP 2... that's a marketing move. It kind of makes no sense to make such division with a basically sandbox, openly creative game such as this one. Or Minecraft, for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldForest Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, lajoswinkler said: I do agree that all this could've been done as KSP v2.0 instead of KSP 2. So basically same game, but new, upgraded engine. Right now we are at KSP v1.7.x and there would be plenty of time to suddenly switch to v2.0. An entirely new game is a marketing thing because now you have to buy it again. It's not always a marketing thing. Sometimes it's to fix bugs and problems with the first game, which KSP has a LOT of. I mean, seriously, the game crashes for no reason some times, rarely, but it does happen. Then you have the limit of how many parts your computer can handle, usually around 100 parts or so is when it starts to tank. They can't make fix KSP 1 because they aren't willing to do what's necessary, break people's game saves. Seriously, every update since 0.25 has been save game compatible iirc. In order to make KSP 2.0, they would have to literally make an entire new game anyway. None of the things Star Theory is doing in KSP 2 can be done in KSP 1, not unless Squad wants to basically remake KSP 1 from the ground up, which Star Theory is doing for them. After all, Squad has said they have no plans at all to upgrade from DX9, which arguably is one draw back of KSP 1. A minor drawback, but if they upgraded to DX12, it would give a small performance boost. Heck, might even solve some issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lajoswinkler Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 46 minutes ago, GoldForest said: It's not always a marketing thing. Sometimes it's to fix bugs and problems with the first game, which KSP has a LOT of. I mean, seriously, the game crashes for no reason some times, rarely, but it does happen. Then you have the limit of how many parts your computer can handle, usually around 100 parts or so is when it starts to tank. They can't make fix KSP 1 because they aren't willing to do what's necessary, break people's game saves. Seriously, every update since 0.25 has been save game compatible iirc. In order to make KSP 2.0, they would have to literally make an entire new game anyway. None of the things Star Theory is doing in KSP 2 can be done in KSP 1, not unless Squad wants to basically remake KSP 1 from the ground up, which Star Theory is doing for them. After all, Squad has said they have no plans at all to upgrade from DX9, which arguably is one draw back of KSP 1. A minor drawback, but if they upgraded to DX12, it would give a small performance boost. Heck, might even solve some issues. I don't think I'm being understood here. I'm saying "make it all brand new and launch it under v.2.0". That's it. Yes, I know it would kind of violate the whole software versioning thing, who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldForest Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, lajoswinkler said: I don't think I'm being understood here. I'm saying "make it all brand new and launch it under v.2.0". That's it. Yes, I know it would kind of violate the whole software versioning thing, who cares? Oh. Well they can't do it as v2.0. KSP 1 is still going to be worked on. Therefore we'll have KSP 1 v2.0 soon, probably by the end of 2020. 1.8 is a few months away. We'll probably have it by the end of the year. Though, if they want to do something big, they'll release KSP 1 V2.0 in 2021 on Kerbal Space Program's tenth anniversary/birthday. KSP 2 will launch as KSP 2 v1.0, or if they go the route of squad and allow early access, will launch under KSP V0.##.##. Edited August 25, 2019 by GoldForest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lajoswinkler Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, GoldForest said: Oh. Well they can't do it as v2.0. I there a software police somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldForest Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, lajoswinkler said: I there a software police somewhere? No, because Squad makes KSP 1, and Star Theory makes KSP 2. You can't make KSP 2 KSP V2.0, because there's already a KSP heading to V2.0. That and it would be super confusing when KSP 1 got to V2.0 and then you have another KSP that's V2.0 as well. It just doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tw1 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 minute ago, GoldForest said: No, because Squad makes KSP 1, and Star Theory makes KSP 2. You can't make KSP 2 KSP V2.0, because there's already a KSP heading to V2.0. That and it would be super confusing when KSP 1 got to V2.0 and then you have another KSP that's V2.0 as well. It just doesn't work. But with the way naming conventions work, should KSP1 continue to update, it may well go to 1.20, rather than ever click over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldForest Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Tw1 said: But with the way naming conventions work, should KSP1 continue to update, it may well go to 1.20, rather than ever click over. This is true, but I feel as if they will go from 1.9 to 2.0, especially with KSP's 10th Anniversary coming up soon. 10 years is bronze year? Iirc. pretty important. If KSP is still actively being developed in 2021, Squad will want to do something HUGE for KSP, and the only thing huge I see is dropping V2.0 with a massive update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, GoldForest said: This is true, but I feel as if they will go from 1.9 to 2.0 No, they will go form 1.9 to 1.10 Software versions aren't decimal numbers. They're integers (whole numbers actually) separated by periods. Edited August 25, 2019 by 5thHorseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldForest Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 minute ago, 5thHorseman said: No, they will go form 1.9 to 1.10 Software versions aren't decimal numbers. They're integers (whole numbers actually) separated by periods. We'll have to wait and see. It can go to any number they want really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, GoldForest said: We'll have to wait and see. It can go to any number they want really. Well yes, they can. They could go to 92458.23146 if they wanted to. But it would be ridiculous to go from 1.9 to anything but 1.10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldForest Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, 5thHorseman said: Well yes, they can. They could go to 92458.23146 if they wanted to. But it would be ridiculous to go from 1.9 to anything but 1.10 Not really. 1.9 to 2.0 isn't far fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, GoldForest said: Not really. 1.9 to 2.0 isn't far fetched. If the changes to the game from 1.9 to 2.0 are comparable to the changes between 1.8 and 1.9, then yes it is. 1.9 to 1.10 implies an iterative but significant change to a software version. 1.9 to 2.0 implies a massive change that means the software is essentially new. And with KSP2 coming out, I'd go so far as to say it'd be tantamount to a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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