[KSP1.12.x] RealPlume - Stock v4.0.8 & RealPlume v13.3.2 [25/JUN/2021]

[blowfish]

11 minutes ago, Scialytic said:

Are there any hydrolox rockets with purple plumes?  That's an honest question; I'm genuinely interested.

Hydrolox emits mostly in the UV spectrum.  The actual plume color depends more on impurities from the fuel/engine itself than the actual propellant.

And take animations with a grain of salt.  The last thing they're thinking about is getting the plume color accurate.  Almost none of the ones I've seen, from anyone, are particularly close to accurate.

Methane would be a major technological shift for them and I wouldn't believe it without them specifically saying so.

[Scialytic]

14 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Hydrolox emits mostly in the UV spectrum.  The actual plume color depends more on impurities from the fuel/engine itself than the actual propellant.

But is there any known hydrolox rocket where the result of all such factors is a plume that looks purple (and a pinkish sort of purple at that)?

 

17 minutes ago, blowfish said:

And take animations with a grain of salt.  The last thing they're thinking about is getting the plume color accurate.  Almost none of the ones I've seen, from anyone, are particularly close to accurate.

Methane would be a major technological shift for them and I wouldn't believe it without them specifically saying so.

I framed it as "the newest art [...] seems to depict" because of considerations like these.  I don't want to be unduly argumentative here, but I feel you're unfairly representing my post.  I believe I was quite clear in angle 1 that the real SABRE is a hydrolox design.  However, the RAPIER is not identical to the SABRE, so there are other considerations one might want to include.  The other two angles are just that: different ways of looking things that lead to other plume options.  I never stated, nor did I intend, a positive claim that REL has actually switched to methane.  Even in angle 3, I said methalox "could work as a compromise between the theoretical design and the in-game stats" not that REL is really going that route.

[blowfish]

6 minutes ago, Scialytic said:

Even in angle 3, I said methalox "could work as a compromise between the theoretical design and the in-game stats" not that REL is really going that route.

You could have made that point without referencing the video.  It would have made your argument stronger.

[coyotesfrontier]

With regards to the R.A.P.I.E.R, several mods (Mk2 Expansion, Near Future Aero, to name a few), have two SABRE-like engines for each size category, with one having higher thrust and the other efficiency. When assigning plumes for them I tend to give the thrust ones hypergolic plumes, and the efficient ones hydrolox plumes, distinguishing them easily:

[Scialytic]

21 minutes ago, blowfish said:

It would have made your argument stronger.

You're entitled to your opinion.  I suspect the "argument" you have in mind is beyond the scope of my words and intents.  In any case, I don't share you perspective.  There are many different possible fuel and oxidizer combinations, and almost all have lower ISP than hydrolox.  To me, it would feel arbitrary to single out a specific one without any particular reason.  Official art is a very flimsy reason, but it's still better than nothing.

 

16 minutes ago, coyotesfrontier said:

With regards to the R.A.P.I.E.R, several mods (Mk2 Expansion, Near Future Aero, to name a few), have two SABRE-like engines for each size category, with one having higher thrust and the other efficiency. When assigning plumes for them I tend to give the thrust ones hypergolic plumes, and the efficient ones hydrolox plumes, distinguishing them easily

I don't really have a plan for which (or how many) engines I will work on, but I like the idea of using hydrolox for more efficient RAPIER-like mod engines.  If you are thinking of submitting I'll remember to hold off on those to avoid duplicating work.

[blowfish]

3 minutes ago, Scialytic said:

You're entitled to your opinion.  I suspect the "argument" you have in mind is beyond the scope of my words and intents.  In any case, I don't share you perspective.  There are many different possible fuel and oxidizer combinations, and almost all have lower ISP than hydrolox.  To me, it would feel arbitrary to single out a specific one without any particular reason.  Official art is a very flimsy reason, but it's still better than nothing.

Yeah, so having done some past research on SABRE it is going to be a lot more performance sensitive than other rocket applications.  Getting to mach 5 in airbreathing mode requires pulling a lot of heat out of the incoming air, and that means liquid hydrogen.  So that's why I think the chance of REL changing fuels is next to nothing.

But as far as RealPlume for the RAPIER is concerned, sure, it basically doesn't matter.  Absent other mods it's still going to run on LF or LF/O anyway.  So as far as I'm concerned the plume is as much art as anything else, and subject to artistic interpretation.

[Zorg]

Yeah I'd just reiterate, I think the real SABRE is like Blowfish said still planned for LH2 but I have no issues with reinterpreting the in game RAPIER. Just make it look pretty and I'm sure people with appreciate it

 

[New Horizons]

I found this in the log:

[ERR 20:08:20.372] Error: Cannot create FMOD::Sound instance for resource 0x000001F5A8224890: file:///C:/Spiele/Kerbal Space Program 1.8.1/GameData/RealPlume/KW_Sounds/sound_sepmotor.wav, (Unsupported file or audio format. )

What is wrong about this file?

[Zorg]

16 hours ago, New Horizons said:

I found this in the log:

[ERR 20:08:20.372] Error: Cannot create FMOD::Sound instance for resource 0x000001F5A8224890: file:///C:/Spiele/Kerbal Space Program 1.8.1/GameData/RealPlume/KW_Sounds/sound_sepmotor.wav, (Unsupported file or audio format. )

What is wrong about this file?

I have no idea. Looks like an outstanding issue from well before I took over. However looking through the github seems like someone has submitted a file that might fix it. Will test and include in the next release.

[Scialytic]

It's taken longer than I anticipated, but after a couple attempts I scrapped and some lessons learned, I've arrived at a RAPIER plume setup that pleases me.  This is a significant departure from the old config, and incorporates some features that (to my knowledge) have not been done before.  The ClosedCycle mode plume is standard usage of Methalox_LowerShock, so I'm going to focus on the new AirBreathing mode plume.  In the following pictures, I'm using the SmokeScreen GUI to show how the AirBreathing (left) and ClosedCycle (offset right) plumes look under various conditions.  One note is that the black background helps the plumes stand out clearly, but it can make them look more opaque than they really are.  At the end I'll show how it looks under daylight flight conditions.

The first picture is all sea level pressure.  The last frame, Mach 3.75, is not a circumstance one would normally encounter, but I wanted to include the most extreme form of the plume just to show that it doesn't break.

• Stationary: AirBreathing mode thrust is roughly 60% of ClosedCycle mode thrust.
• Mach 0.7: approximately equal thrust.
• Mach 1.2: AirBreathing mode is hitting its stride now. The bypass ramjets have come to life.  The ramjet plume is more noticeable in game because of the movement.  In the picture it's kind of faint, but I didn't want to overdo it.
• Mach 1.5, 2.0, 2.5: thrust continues to grow.
• Mach 3.75: maximum thrust.  As mentioned earlier, this is at sea level pressure, so far from normal flying.

The second picture shows something closer to how a typical spaceplane might fly on its way to orbit.

• 65% atm: shock cones fading just like in Methalox_LowerShock.
• 45%, 25% atm: the "fume" component determines the size of the plume now, so that's independent of thrust, but it will be brighter & fuller or dimmer & wispier according to thrust.
• Mach 5.5, 5.76, 5.86: AirBreathing mode loses power sharply above Mach 5.5.  In the beginning, this was actually the primary thing that motivated me to redesign the RAPIER's plume.  I wanted to see it losing thrust instead of just watching a number decrease.

I'm particularly fond of the fact that I was able to do this algorithmically within the new generic plume cfg.  So it should be easy to reuse this plume for RAPIER-clone engines from mods.  As long as it follows the same basic format (8-key velCurve; 5-key atmCurve) the plume should automatically adjust itself according to the host part's velCurve and atmCurve.

I meant to post something sooner, but I had some false starts and then I fell victim to "just one more tweak."  Feedback is very welcome.  I can still easily change anything as I have not cleaned up the cfgs yet.

[EngineerMartijn]

On 3/15/2020 at 7:21 PM, Zorg said:

New mainsail and skipper configs. Apologies to EngineerMartjin who kindly submitted configs when I was too busy to attend to this, but I ended up redoing it with the new kerolox plumes and also adding the verniers. Still makes me mad I have to use a kerolox plume on a Vulcain model but what you gonna do? Its a mainsail ultimately.

No problems @Zorg These configs you made are much better then just a kerolox-lower plum. This is a very big improvement.

[Zorg]

14 hours ago, Scialytic said:

I meant to post something sooner, but I had some false starts and then I fell victim to "just one more tweak."  Feedback is very welcome.  I can still easily change anything as I have not cleaned up the cfgs yet.

Look really good! Almost enough to tempt me to try spaceplanes

 

[coyotesfrontier]

Hello all, I've created a set of configs for Near Future Aeronautics:

You can download it here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=15r3gFiqeaRCYiLBcVkeO73s-0dgCkn4k

[Zorg]

30 minutes ago, coyotesfrontier said:

Hello all, I've created a set of configs for Near Future Aeronautics:

You can download it here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=15r3gFiqeaRCYiLBcVkeO73s-0dgCkn4k

Thanks! Nice to see so many community contributions. Will take a look when I have a moment. Most of those look pretty good! But a little uncertain about the fourth one from the left, could just be the screenshot I guess but looks a little odd to me with nothing but the little shock cone tip effects visible.

[coyotesfrontier]

3 hours ago, Zorg said:

Thanks! Nice to see so many community contributions. Will take a look when I have a moment. Most of those look pretty good! But a little uncertain about the fourth one from the left, could just be the screenshot I guess but looks a little odd to me with nothing but the little shock cone tip effects visible.

Thank you! For the engine, the plume looks a lot better in flight:

It is still quite transparent, do you want me to change it to Hypergolic_LowerRed or Hypergolic_UpperRed?

[Zorg]

12 minutes ago, coyotesfrontier said:

Thank you! For the engine, the plume looks a lot better in flight:

It is still quite transparent, do you want me to change it to Hypergolic_LowerRed or Hypergolic_UpperRed?

Oh that looks better. I’ll take a look in game before suggesting any changes. 

[New Horizons]

Is there some kind of an addon to let this mod work with Real Fuels Stockalike configs?

[Zorg]

Just now, New Horizons said:

Is there some kind of an addon to let this mod work with Real Fuels Stockalike configs?

Real Fuels Stockalike as far as I know roll their own realplume configs. I dont use it so Im not familiar with the details but I think they are included in RF stockalike or available as a separate download.

[New Horizons]

Indeed you are right. That config is pretty outdated,so many engines are missing or plume positions are off.

One example of code from RF Stockalike Realplumes.

 

@PART[SXTAJ10]:BEFORE[RealPlume]
{
	PLUME
    {
        name = Hypergolic-OMS-White            //pre-fabbed plume you want
        transformName = thrustTransform //which transform to attach the plume
        localRotation = 0,0,0           //Optional - Any rotation needed

        flarePosition = 0,0,-1.75
        plumePosition = 0,0,0
        fixedScale = 0.25                  //Size adjustment to resize to engine
        energy = 1                      //Adjust length of plume
        speed = 1                       //Adjust speed to fit resize, 
                                        //generally close to 1:1 with scale.
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
    {
        @name = ModuleEnginesRF
		// =  Hypergolic-OMS-White
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
    {
        %type = ModuleEnginesRF
		@CONFIG,*  //Add the effect to every engine config
        {
            %powerEffectName = Hypergolic-OMS-White
        }
    }
}

 

Your code

@PART[SXTAJ10]:FOR[RealPlume]:NEEDS[SmokeScreen] // KJ10-37 "Rearguard" Liquid Fuel Engine
{
    PLUME
    {
        name = Hypergolic-Upper
        transformName = thrustTransform
        localRotation = 0,0,0
        flarePosition = 0,0,0.7
        plumePosition = 0,0,0.4
        flareScale = 0.35
        plumeScale = 0.4
        energy = 0.8
        speed = 0.7
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
    {
        %powerEffectName = Hypergolic-Upper
    }
}

 

So many similaritys besides that 

        @CONFIG,*  //Add the effect to every engine config
        {
            %powerEffectName = Hypergolic-OMS-White
        }

[Zorg]

 

2 minutes ago, New Horizons said:

That config is pretty outdated,so many engines are missing or plume positions are off.

Yes I have added a lot of new plumes in the last few months since I started maintaining RealPlume. You would need to update the RF configs referencing the new plumes if you want the new stuff.

[New Horizons]

I might try the other way around and will use your configs in my real fuels stockalike install and will look for light patches to make it compatible.

[A lazy noob]

Looks like there are a few textures missing from the folder structure and is causing the game to throw some warnings on load:

Texture 'RealPlume/Jade_FX/Engines/Generic/smoke1' not found!

Texture 'RealPlume/Jade_FX/Engines/Generic/smoke3' not found!

Texture 'RealPlume/Jade_FX/Engines/Turbine/shock2' not found!

Texture 'RealPlume/Zorg_FX/soft' not found!

Not sure if this affects anything in-game

 

[Krzeszny]

The mod is cool but the description doesn't mention the sound changes and not everyone wants sound changes bundled with a particle effect mod.

[Zorg]

4 hours ago, A lazy noob said:

Looks like there are a few textures missing from the folder structure and is causing the game to throw some warnings on load:

Texture 'RealPlume/Jade_FX/Engines/Generic/smoke1' not found!

Texture 'RealPlume/Jade_FX/Engines/Generic/smoke3' not found!

Texture 'RealPlume/Jade_FX/Engines/Turbine/shock2' not found!

Texture 'RealPlume/Zorg_FX/soft' not found!

Not sure if this affects anything in-game

 

Probably something minor since I havent seen a major issue but I will look into this.

 

21 minutes ago, Krzeszny said:

The mod is cool but the description doesn't mention the sound changes and not everyone wants sound changes bundled with a particle effect mod.

I'll add a note to the description but the sounds arent going away.

[Krzeszny]

8 minutes ago, Zorg said:

I'll add a note to the description but the sounds arent going away.

There could be a soundless version or just a config for those who like stock sounds.