KSP Engineer Redux acting funny

[Steve C.]

I am fairly new to KSP.  I just added the mods Engineer Redux and Real Solar System.

I built a basic rocket which I thought should fly.  In the VAB, it says that the TWR is 2.31.

 

But when I get it out on the launch pad and go to full throttle, I don't get off the ground.  Engineer says that my TWR is now .59

 

 

Is this because engineer and Real Solar System are incompatible?  Like somehow in the VAB it calculates the TWR based on Kerbin gravity but out on the launch pad it is using earth gravity?

 

In a related question, when I go to the tracking station and zoom out, the planet I am launching from still looks like Kerbin and the other planets are Moho, etc.  Not the planets from our solar system as expected.  Did Real Solar System not install properly?

Thanks,

Steve

[Superfluous J]

It's been a long time since I used KER but aren't you in vacuum mode in the VAB? I can't tell what you're using there but if it's a Terrier they hate atmosphere.

Also note that KSP thinks you have far less dV than KER, making me further think that KER is in vacuum mode.

[Guest]

I use KER all the time and can confirm what @5thHorseman said: you're listing the vacuum TWR and dV in the VAB. Click the "Atmosphere" button and you should see the same numbers there. Terriers barely do anything ASL.

[Steve C.]

Brilliant!!  I was using the Terrier engine and when I click on atmospheric, it does give me the correct TWR.  

[Zhetaan]

13 hours ago, Steve C. said:

Is this because engineer and Real Solar System are incompatible?

These two mods are compatible; they're used together all the time.  @5thHorseman and @Brikoleur have the truth of it; you're using the vacuum delta-V calculation instead of atmospheric.

13 hours ago, Steve C. said:

In a related question, when I go to the tracking station and zoom out, the planet I am launching from still looks like Kerbin and the other planets are Moho, etc.  Not the planets from our solar system as expected.  Did Real Solar System not install properly?

That would be correct.  Real Solar System is dependent on a number of other mods, including Kopernicus.  If you neglected to install one of these dependencies, or alternatively, something went wrong with that installation, then you will have a problem and the mod won't load.

Also, note that at least according to the Real Solar System thread, RSS currently works on KSP version 1.6.1.  If you're running 1.7 (which you are; KER v1.1.6.0 is made for KSP v1.7), then it's not going to work.  You need to download an older version of KSP, or else wait for an updated RSS.

If you do go back to KSP v1.6.1, then you'll need the older KER v1.1.5.7 to go with it.  You can get it from the same place as you got the current KER, using the link found in the Kerbal Engineer thread.

 

On a side note, welcome to the forum!  Should you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Zhetaan

[Steve C.]

Zhetaan,

You are right of course.  I am using 1.7.  Thanks for your help.  

On a related note.  Today I was watching a video on KSP realism overhaul.  I got the impression that realism overhaul is also needed for RSS; is that true?

Thanks,

Steve

[Superfluous J]

33 minutes ago, Steve C. said:

I got the impression that realism overhaul is also needed for RSS; is that true?

"Needed" is a strong term.

If you just install RSS you will have a LOT of trouble getting to space. Stock KSP rocket are really heavy "dry" and have poor thrust and ISP. They make it to space so easily in spite of this because Kerbin is so small normally, but when you multiply all the bodies by 10, those rockets that are fairly well balanced for Kerbin are woefully underpowered.

Realism Overhaul fixes this, but it is not the only mod that does so. Many prefer SMURFF instead and I'm sure there are others. If I were to go that way, I'd personally try SMURFF as I like not having to worry about all the different things you have to worry about in RO.

Others disagree with me on that, but that's why modding is so awesome

[Steve C.]

Thanks!!

[Zhetaan]

13 hours ago, Steve C. said:

I got the impression that realism overhaul is also needed for RSS; is that true?

@5thHorseman beat me to it; one of the balancing points of the game is that when the developers nerfed the sizes of the planets and solar system for the sake of faster and easier launches to space, they nerfed the performance of the rockets to match.  For a comparison, the Reliant engine has a sea-level specific impulse of 265 seconds; the real RS-25 engines from the Space Shuttle have a specific impulse of 366 seconds at sea level.  366 seconds is better than most stock vacuum engines (the Poodle only gets to 350 seconds in vacuum).  For launchers, the thrust-to-weight ratio is more important:  the Mammoth and the F-1 that inspired it have roughly comparable specific impulse (though the Mammoth is slightly better than the F-1 in this respect), but the Mammoth has a sea-level TWR of 25.5 and the F-1 has a TWR of 94.1--but for the fact that it doesn't melt, I'd insist that the Mammoth was made of lead.  For another comparison, the mass ratio of most fuel tanks is 9, which may as well be equivalent to armour plating when compared to the real space shuttle super lightweight tank, which has a mass ratio of about 28.7 (and to avoid accusations of cherry-picking, the standard weight tank had a mass ratio of 22).  Put another way, the stock LFO tanks are about 12% tank and 88% fuel, and real tanks are between 3% - 5% tank and 95% - 97% fuel per unit mass.

The point is that when playing with rescaled solar systems such as RSS, it's important to consider whether to rescale your rocket performance, too.  A lot of people forget this and have difficulty because of it.  Realism Overhaul is made to work with RSS, but it's also made to address every single part individually.  That provides more realism (which one should expect) but it also can mean inability to cope with intermediate scales, such as found in 6.4x systems, and it definitely means an inability to handle mod-provided parts unless some helpful person has made a bespoke per-part patch for it.  SMURFF is a more general-purpose reconfiguration; you can read more about it in the provided link.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Zhetaan

[Steve C.]

Thank you all very much!