Remove rendezvous, dock, crew transfer, return from "Exploration"

[eddiew]

Subject as per title...

Example mission:

• Launch a multi-part vessel
• Relay/fuel tank stays in orbit at the destination, lander descends
• Lander may include rover and contact multiple biomes
• Lander returns to orbital relay, picks up more fuel, returns home

By all reasonable thinking, this body is done with, explored, and I'd like to move on, yet the next exploration contract insists I return to the same body to perform a crew transfer, or a docking (because they were the same vessel).

What a boring, tedious, mundane thing to put under the heading of 'Exploration'. Exploration can be reasonably considered to be: flyby, orbit, landing, flag planting. If those four things are done, the contract system should suggest a new destination. Exploration is about... exploring new places. Not about technical operations at destinations you already went to.

Please. This is so simple, and I think, so logical. I'm really tired of editing my save files to get past these make-busy contracts, and I wonder how many players just sit with "crew transfer around Mun" forever and ignore the exploration contracts because of it.

[fulgur]

Agreed, those don't count as Exploration. But all the same it is nice to have a monetary reason to go back to a body you were going to visit again; I really don't want to set up a Duna base on my first mission there, because (as Duna is my first interplanetary mission) the data will make it redundant as soon as it leaves Kerbin SoI!

[Laie]

On 12/29/2019 at 12:58 PM, eddiew said:

What a boring, tedious, mundane thing to put under the heading of 'Exploration'.

Amen.

It used to be that Exploration contracts always held these items: Flyby, Orbit, Land, Plant a Flag.

Of course it was possible to complete all four in one go, and IMO it was better that way. Especially, it was great that you didn't have to return: it makes sense to explore several (all?) Joolian moons while you're in the neighborhood, but that won't work if you first have to return home before the next exploration contract can pop up.

[Incarnation of Chaos]

On 12/29/2019 at 5:58 AM, eddiew said:

Subject as per title...

Example mission:

• Launch a multi-part vessel
• Relay/fuel tank stays in orbit at the destination, lander descends
• Lander may include rover and contact multiple biomes
• Lander returns to orbital relay, picks up more fuel, returns home

By all reasonable thinking, this body is done with, explored, and I'd like to move on, yet the next exploration contract insists I return to the same body to perform a crew transfer, or a docking (because they were the same vessel).

What a boring, tedious, mundane thing to put under the heading of 'Exploration'. Exploration can be reasonably considered to be: flyby, orbit, landing, flag planting. If those four things are done, the contract system should suggest a new destination. Exploration is about... exploring new places. Not about technical operations at destinations you already went to.

Please. This is so simple, and I think, so logical. I'm really tired of editing my save files to get past these make-busy contracts, and I wonder how many players just sit with "crew transfer around Mun" forever and ignore the exploration contracts because of it.

 

On 12/29/2019 at 7:57 AM, fulgur said:

Agreed, those don't count as Exploration. But all the same it is nice to have a monetary reason to go back to a body you were going to visit again; I really don't want to set up a Duna base on my first mission there, because (as Duna is my first interplanetary mission) the data will make it redundant as soon as it leaves Kerbin SoI!

 

As an alternative to outright removal; wouldn't it be possible to make the next set of "Exploration" contracts not need to have the conditions of Rendevous,Docking and Transfer to appear in Mission Control? This would allow people with experience to only accept contracts that align with their current exploration, but also still allow those who want to practice them to take them for a bit of financial cushion. 

[eddiew]

On 12/29/2019 at 1:57 PM, fulgur said:

But all the same it is nice to have a monetary reason to go back to a body you were going to visit again;

Thing is, it's easy to find satellite, science, or tourist contracts for places you've already been. Making money from previously explored bodies isn't hard.

Being given an up-front bonus to go to Eeloo however... I don't know how to achieve that without visiting every other body in the system and doing every 'exploration' activity at each of them.

On the whole, I just wish the Exploration contract was a bit less conservative. It should be suggesting Duna the moment I've landed on Mun, and Moho/Dres/Jool as soon as I've done Duna. I'm fine with it sometimes suggesting previously-visited bodies, but my biggest gripe is that it never suggests things that haven't been visited unless all the rest are 100% complete. Fortunately I'm usually cash-rich once I've gotten back from Duna, so I just go out and rely on world's first money to make it worthwhile when I get there.

(The Strategia mod is helpful, to those who may share my feelings. It'll give you a cool half million for cracking open a new SoI as long as you call the shot before you launch. Which is great, but I do feel stock KSP is very lacking in nudging you to go to new places.)

[severedsolo]

Firstly, I 100% support this, it's the one of the most frustrating things in the game. (Not to mention, WHY do I need to demonstrate that I can rendezvous and dock around every body? The skills are transferrable. If I can do it around Kerbin I can do it anywhere).

For now though, there is a mod that does what you want:

(Ignore the fact it says 1.2.2 it works fine)

[kspnerd122]

I hate the new contracts as they essentially BAN one way probes as they state you must return to kerbin I am doing eve missions, I've only been playing for a year do you really expect newer players to be able to RETURN FROM THE SURFACE OF EVE FOR Just 300000 funds!!!!!!!!! Thank you I WILL SKIP THAT MISSION USING CHEATS IF NESSECARY BECAUSE THAT IS UNFAIR TO NEW PLAYERS!!!!!!

[Mr. Peabody]

57 minutes ago, kspnerd122 said:

I hate the new contracts as they essentially BAN one way probes as they state you must return to kerbin I am doing eve missions, I've only been playing for a year do you really expect newer players to be able to RETURN FROM THE SURFACE OF EVE FOR Just 300000 funds!!!!!!!!! Thank you I WILL SKIP THAT MISSION USING CHEATS IF NESSECARY BECAUSE THAT IS UNFAIR TO NEW PLAYERS!!!!!!

No need to shout mate. We don't do that here.

[kspnerd122]

Ok but I am actually tired of these items being a thing and manned missions should be optional not required by the game I am just using f12 to skip those ones

[Wjolcz]

All (not silly!) objectives in one contract. One contract per body. Each objective with its own reward. One big reward for completing all the objectives.

That's how it should work IMO.

[kspnerd122]

i agree with you @Wjolcz

im tired of mun and minmus missions in fact I do multi launch missions simply to do crew transfer and docking so i dont go back unless the mission is for a moon of that planet.

the current mission system makes it hard to do probes because it requires you to return to kerbin or do an eva in orbit and then return do you know how hard it is to get home from a jool flyby, 10000m/s of delta V hard because you cannot expect everyone to be good at gravity assists(when i go to jool i just use engines to go into orbit as tylo and laythe are in bad spots all the time) we should not be required to know gravity assists simply to have enough fuel to get back FREE THE PROBES.

[Superfluous J]

Send 2 ships to every world. Dock them, crew transfer, spacewalk, land and plant a flag, transfer as much fuel as you can spare to one of them and return the other home with all the science.

Then send the odd ship to the next world to repeat with a fresh ship from Kerbin, to wipe out all potential "explore" contracts for it.

They won't ask you to do what you've already done.

[eddiew]

On 3/25/2020 at 2:16 PM, 5thHorseman said:

Send 2 ships to every world. Dock them, crew transfer, spacewalk, land and plant a flag, transfer as much fuel as you can spare to one of them and return the other home with all the science.

I mean, it's all a really good idea  

...but I wonder how many players want to go to that bother? Just a hunch, but I suspect that most people would prefer to just launch one big rocket at a time rather than track two simultaneous missions around the system.

[Superfluous J]

51 minutes ago, eddiew said:

I mean, it's all a really good idea  

...but I wonder how many players want to go to that bother? Just a hunch, but I suspect that most people would prefer to just launch one big rocket at a time rather than track two simultaneous missions around the system.

I agree. I'd rather do it as well. If it wasn't for KAC I wouldn't even bother.

[kspnerd122]

On 3/25/2020 at 10:16 AM, 5thHorseman said:

Send 2 ships to every world. Dock them, crew transfer, spacewalk, land and plant a flag, transfer as much fuel as you can spare to one of them and return the other home with all the science.

Then send the odd ship to the next world to repeat with a fresh ship from Kerbin, to wipe out all potential "explore" contracts for it.

They won't ask you to do what you've already done.

thank you

but how does this fix the problem of YOU MUST RETURN HOME FIRST

[Superfluous J]

 

8 hours ago, kspnerd122 said:

thank you

but how does this fix the problem of YOU MUST RETURN HOME FIRST

Send 2 ships to Mun

Rendezvous and dock and transfer crew

Send one ship home.

Send the other to Minmus.

Send a new ship to Minmus (which you were going to do anyway)

Rendezvous and dock and transfer crew

Send one ship home.

Send the other to Duna.

Send a new ship to Duna (which you were going to do anyway).

...etc

[eddiew]

On 4/3/2020 at 11:42 PM, Superfluous J said:

Send 2 ships to Mun... [etc]

You're very much not wrong and it does indeed solve the problem - at least, if your original Mun vessel has oodles of range and can be refuelled to let you keep doing this.

On the other hand... it's a solution to a weird problem that doesn't really feel like it needs to exist at all.

Rendezvous is not exploring. Docking is not exploring. Crew transfers are not exploring. They don't involve going to new places and thus don't belong in the "exploration" contracts list. By all means have world's first rewards, and have separate contracts because maybe I like to put a station around every planet, and maybe I could do this as a dual launch if there was incentive. But maybe I just want to go and come home. And I have a strong hunch that the majority of players are in the latter camp, at least some of the time. 

All my 2p, obviously, but that's what the suggestions forum is for  

Also your new forum name totally threw me until I saw your signature

[Superfluous J]

27 minutes ago, eddiew said:

And I have a strong hunch that the majority of players are in the latter camp, at least some of the time.

Agreed. I don't actually MIND them being there, my big problem is the way contracts work they're essentially MANDITORY, because you won't see a Jool contract, for example, until you transfer crew at Duna.

I've gone so far as to add fake entries to my persistent file before, so the game thought I did it.

29 minutes ago, eddiew said:

Also your new forum name totally threw me until I saw your signature

[Cavscout74]

On 3/25/2020 at 11:30 AM, kspnerd122 said:

10000m/s of delta V hard because you cannot expect everyone to be good at gravity assists(when i go to jool i just use engines to go into orbit as tylo and laythe are in bad spots all the time)

Usually a small (<100 m/s) course correction just after entering Jool's SoI is enough to put Tylo in position for a flyby.

On topic, I agree - the stock exploration contracts are a mess, especially the rendezvous, dock & transfer.  I'm not opposed to "return" contracts - it is a big achievement to bring a craft back from another planet, but there needs to be either separate contracts (that can be taken at the same time) or as someone mentioned one large contract with individual awards for each achievement.   There also needs to be more options available after Mun/Minmus - yes, Duna is the easiest interplanetary destination, but Moho's transfer window comes sooner and it isn't impossible to get a fly-by probe or even an orbiter launched before Duna contracts are done, but then you miss all the Moho contracts.