[BETA] [1.8.x] Bureaucracy - Monthly Budgets, Reimagined (Release Candidate - 22/01/2020)

[vardicd]

@severedsolo is the Administration building supposed to only have 3 levels? or could this be an interaction between Bureaucracy and Strategia [which is the only other mod i think i have that affects the administration building]? or maybe even something else? The tracking station is the only building listed as an exception in the wiki.

[severedsolo]

Just now, vardicd said:

 is the Administration building supposed to only have 3 levels?

Yes (I'll point that out in the documentation) - I found the Admin building difficult to balance, I never use it anyway, and Strategia also tries to target it with a CBK patch.

Knowing how popular Strategia is (and I don't care about the admin building) - I decided to leave it alone.

[vardicd]

2 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

Yes (I'll point that out in the documentation) - I found the Admin building difficult to balance, I never use it anyway, and Strategia also tries to target it with a CBK patch.

Knowing how popular Strategia is (and I don't care about the admin building) - I decided to leave it alone.

Okay, cool. Also looking at the latest version you posted, unless i've missed something, the download link to your github, only shows download links for the source code?

Edited January 22, 2020 by vardicd

[severedsolo]

1 minute ago, vardicd said:

Okay, cool. Also looking at the latest version you posted, unless i've missed something, the download link to your github, only shows download links for the source code?

That would be because I forgot to upload the zip - thanks now fixed.

[vardicd]

6 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

That would be because I forgot to upload the zip - thanks now fixed.

yep got it now.

[vardicd]

@severedsolo Update for the Potential bug/interaction with KCT and Bureaucracy. Additional Launchpads built by KCT don't seems to be upgradable. they appear stuck at the level they are first built at. selecting the new launchpad and attempting to upgrade it will cause Bureaucracy to add it to the construction menu, and will cost funds but seems to do nothing once the project is complete. I've verified that the work isn't applied to the primary launch pad either. I've updated the issue i raised on github with an addendum notation on the original issue posting.

[severedsolo]

1 hour ago, vardicd said:

@severedsolo Update for the Potential bug/interaction with KCT and Bureaucracy. Additional Launchpads built by KCT don't seems to be upgradable. they appear stuck at the level they are first built at. selecting the new launchpad and attempting to upgrade it will cause Bureaucracy to add it to the construction menu, and will cost funds but seems to do nothing once the project is complete. I've verified that the work isn't applied to the primary launch pad either. I've updated the issue i raised on github with an addendum notation on the original issue posting.

This isn't a feature I'm familiar with KCT, I just tried a basic game, creating a new pad, but can't find anywhere to upgrade it.

I'm sure this *is* a bug, because it wouldn't have occurred to me that this was even a thing, but I need to know how to reproduce it. - Treat me like I'm an idiot, walk me through every step, setting up the new pad, and trying to upgrade it (and any mods I need installed to make it happen (Kerbal Konstructs?).

 

[vardicd]

Just now, severedsolo said:

This isn't a feature I'm familiar with KCT, I just tried a basic game, creating a new pad, but can't find anywhere to upgrade it.

I'm sure this *is* a bug, because it wouldn't have occurred to me that this was even a thing, but I need to know how to reproduce it. - Treat me like I'm an idiot, walk me through every step, setting up the new pad, and trying to upgrade it (and any mods I need installed to make it happen (Kerbal Konstructs?).

 

Easier to show then tell, I'll fire up KSP and record quick video. Once I've got it posted to youtube i'll link it here and tag you. Shouldn't take too long, depending on how long it takes youtube to upload.

[severedsolo]

23 minutes ago, vardicd said:

Easier to show then tell, I'll fire up KSP and record quick video. Once I've got it posted to youtube i'll link it here and tag you. Shouldn't take too long, depending on how long it takes youtube to upload.

Sorry to mess you around - I just figured it out.

That's a tricky one. The KCT launchpad is reporting itself as the default launchpad, I can't differentiate.

I have an idea though, leave it with me, I'm gonna try something see if it works.

[vardicd]

9 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

Sorry to mess you around - I just figured it out.

That's a tricky one. The KCT launchpad is reporting itself as the default launchpad, I can't differentiate.

I have an idea though, leave it with me, I'm gonna try something see if it works.

Well, I'm glad you figured it out, my recording and editing program decided to crap all over itself today, and I can't get a recording made. 

Side issue, I started a new save to do the recording, and then i deleted it, and Bureaucracy has vanished from my main save. I no longer have the icon in game, and KCT is performing upgrades as if the mod is no longer there. It still shows in my install, and I still have the local settings file in my save game, but it's just gone.

Currently restarting to see if that fixes it. Restart fixed it, but I can not reproduce. Don't know if you want to play around with it, but it did happen once. positive side that oopsie got my Kennedy launchpad to Level 3 because Bureaucracy wasn't there to stop it that time. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by vardicd

[Beetlecat]

There's just something super-fun about watching a mod come to life in real-time!

I'm sure by Friday it'll be a few more versions ahead...

Edited January 22, 2020 by Beetlecat

[severedsolo]

2 hours ago, Beetlecat said:

I'm sure by Friday it'll be a few more versions ahead...

Don't say that, I'm hoping to have it released by then

@vardicd I've got a workaround for the launchpad thing, but it aint pretty.

So - basically KCT's "extra launchpads" are actually just changing the Launchpad Facility's level on the fly to simulate different pads. This means that Bureaucracy can't tell that it's not really the launchpad because it tells Bureaucracy that it is the pad.

Luckily, because it is tricking everyone into thinking that it is the pad, when the right launchpad is selected the upgrade completes.

The problem is, what do we do if you forget to select the right launchpad before the upgrade tries to happen?

So, now Bureaucracy will check the level of the upgrade it's trying to perform, if it doesn't match what it's expecting, it will pop up a warning and hold the upgrade back. You can then select the right pad, right click again, click "Upgrade" and the upgrade will complete instantly.

Limitations of this system:

1. You can only upgrade one launchpad at a time. Nothing I can do about that, KCT is telling me it's the launchpad, I can't tell the difference.
2. If you happen to have two Level 3 Launchpads, request an upgrade on one, and you have the wrong one selected, tough luck, that one's getting upgraded.
3. If KCT is trying to trick everyone into thinking that this is the actual launchpad, I am not getting involved. So Construction is going to leave building new KCT pads alone.
4. Further launchpad upgrades will be blocked until the upgrade that is being held back is completed.

Just fixing up one final bug with it, and then I'll get an update out.

Edited January 22, 2020 by severedsolo

[severedsolo]

Bureaucracy Release Candidate 2 Available

• Workaround issue with upgrading when multiple KCT Launchpads are involved (closes #3 )

@vardicd - I've closed the issue because I think this fixes it. If that's not the case, you can reopen it again (also, in future can you please add new comments to open issues instead of editing? I get notified of comments, but not edits).

[Beetlecat]

3 hours ago, severedsolo said:

Bureaucracy Release Candidate 2 Available

• Workaround issue with upgrading when multiple KCT Launchpads are involved (closes #3 )

@vardicd - I've closed the issue because I think this fixes it. If that's not the case, you can reopen it again (also, in future can you please add new comments to open issues instead of editing? I get notified of comments, but not edits).

Awesome!

I'm going to start fiddling around with KSC Extended to see how additional KCT launchpads can be represented by *actual* launchpads (even if just in a role-playing context). Does Bureaucracy add the additional KCT pads into the facilities/maintenance budget?

[severedsolo]

14 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

Awesome!

I'm going to start fiddling around with KSC Extended to see how additional KCT launchpads can be represented by *actual* launchpads (even if just in a role-playing context). Does Bureaucracy add the additional KCT pads into the facilities/maintenance budget?

No, like I said, KCT pretends that they are all the stock pad, so Bureaucracy can't tell the difference. (Well no, that's a lie. They ARE all the stock pad, KCT just uses smoke and mirrors to make you think they are different)

All the workaround does, is look at the level it's expecting the pad to be, and if it's not right, guessing that KCT is to blame.

Launchpads are free anyway, that's covered in the launch costs

Edited January 22, 2020 by severedsolo

[vardicd]

4 hours ago, severedsolo said:

Bureaucracy Release Candidate 2 Available

• Workaround issue with upgrading when multiple KCT Launchpads are involved (closes #3 )

@vardicd - I've closed the issue because I think this fixes it. If that's not the case, you can reopen it again (also, in future can you please add new comments to open issues instead of editing? I get notified of comments, but not edits).

Noted for future reference. 

will this fix deal with the instant completion of newly ordered launchpads? If i ask KCT to build a completely new pad, poof there it is, which was why i originally raised the issue, or is that just something we're going to have to live with with how KCT deals with the different launchpads? 

[severedsolo]

1 minute ago, vardicd said:

will this fix deal with the instant completion of newly ordered launchpads? If i ask KCT to build a completely new pad, poof there it is, which was why i originally raised the issue, or is that just something we're going to have to live with with how KCT deals with the different launchpads? 

You're just going to have to live with it I'm afraid, I might revisit this later, but I literally cannot tell the difference in code between a stock pad and a KCT extra pad.

[vardicd]

1 hour ago, severedsolo said:

You're just going to have to live with it I'm afraid, I might revisit this later, but I literally cannot tell the difference in code between a stock pad and a KCT extra pad.

No worries. just asking for clarity. I'll just impose a self set time for construction use limit before I allow myself to use new pads. 

[severedsolo]

6 hours ago, vardicd said:

No worries. just asking for clarity. I'll just impose a self set time for construction use limit before I allow myself to use new pads. 

Oh by the way, I submitted a PR to Kerbal Environmental Institute to make the surface samples work properly. Just waiting for it to be merged.

[AVaughan]

17 hours ago, vardicd said:

Additional Launchpads built by KCT don't seems to be upgradable. they appear stuck at the level they are first built at.

That might actually be a bug in the new KCT.   I'm pretty sure one of the RO/RP-1 devs pushed such a change into the KCT for RP-1's use pretty recently.  (ie launchpads will no longer be upgradable in RP-1, instead you will need to build a new larger pad).  I would have expected that to be hidden behind an option or config setting somewhere, but maybe that option/config setting is broken, or simply on by default.  Might be worth checking whether that issue occurs with just KCT, and/or discussing in the KCT thread or on the RO/RP-1 discord.

[vardicd]

34 minutes ago, AVaughan said:

That might actually be a bug in the new KCT.   I'm pretty sure one of the RO/RP-1 devs pushed such a change into the KCT for RP-1's use pretty recently.  (ie launchpads will no longer be upgradable in RP-1, instead you will need to build a new larger pad).  I would have expected that to be hidden behind an option or config setting somewhere, but maybe that option/config setting is broken, or simply on by default.  Might be worth checking whether that issue occurs with just KCT, and/or discussing in the KCT thread or on the RO/RP-1 discord.

I think i can safely say this is not the case. During my testing I accidentally disabled Bureaucracy at one point, and the launchpad did upgrade the next time i clicked the button. The pads themselves will upgrade, it was just a specific interaction between Bureaucracy and KCT where Bureaucracy was attempting to perform and upgrade it's way, with KCT's method disabled. When Bureaucracy looks at the additional KSC pads provided by KCT it saw them all as the same pad, if i understood Severedsolo's explanation correctly, and a work around had to be implemented to get the process to function.

1 hour ago, severedsolo said:

Oh by the way, I submitted a PR to Kerbal Environmental Institute to make the surface samples work properly. Just waiting for it to be merged.

Excellent.

[severedsolo]

1 hour ago, vardicd said:

When Bureaucracy looks at the additional KSC pads provided by KCT it saw them all as the same pad, if i understood Severedsolo's explanation correctly  

@AVaughanB

asically this. (technical explanation in the spoiler if interested.

Spoiler

KCT pads are not real pads. They are just a bit of data that tells KCT how the launchpad object should look when that pad is selected.

When you select a different pad in KCT, it then updates the Launchpad object to make it look the way the selected pad is supposed to look.

Bureaucracy is then saying to the game "hey can I get the launchpad please" and the game is giving it the launchpad object (however KCT has made it look at the time the request is made).

The issue was, that Bureaucracy was assuming that the launchpad wouldn't change. Why would it, after all, we're handling upgrades here, there's no reason for it to change unless we ask it to, but we'd know about that because we are handling it.

So when an upgrade completed, Bureaucracy was going "OK ksp, set the launchpad to level 3 please", but if the wrong pad was selected, the changes would be applied to that pad instead.

What the workaround does, is instead of just saying "set the launchpad to level 3 please", it asks "I'm expecting the launchpad to be level 2, can you confirm that's right?" If it is, then no problem, we go ahead and do the upgrade. If not, Bureaucracy goes "nope, this is wrong" aborts the upgrade, assumes that KCT interfered, and gives you a warning to that effect.

(sorry for the random pings, I'm on mobile and the forum is stupid)

Edited January 23, 2020 by severedsolo

[vardicd]

Just hired a bunch of Kerbals to staff a space station, and had forgotten about the training times for new Kerbals, and had the random thought, wouldn't it be nice if there was a funding allocation for training kerbals too? Give they longer training times, but the ability to devote funds to a training program to train them faster? when you're not actively training new kerbals have the funds go into a personal amenities fund for your staff, give you a way to increase morale. Devote more funds to it, for parties, better equipment, additional training, Salary bonuses. and the like? Use it as a way to recover morale after disasters, or push morale over the 100% mark as a buffer against future disasters.

Not really making any kind of feature request, just sort of had a wouldn't this be cool idea. Make your on staff kerbals, and astronaut complex more dynamic, give you more options to spend money on, and thought I'd share. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by vardicd

[severedsolo]

@vardicd
- Heh me being the forward thinking guy I am, that would be very doable (and  I think morale boost by funding was also suggested by @Sabrewulf

  I had expandability in mind when I wrote this, so all the "departments" inherit from a "Manager" class, and nothing makes assumptions about what departments exist. All managers can have funding assigned to them (whether they want it or not) - you could have 50 departments if you really wanted.

As it happens, I decided to make the Crew Manager a "Manager" even though I didn't actually want to give it funding at this point, meaning that really, for this to happen, I'd just need to hook up the ui and write a bit of extra logic. I didn't do it straight away when it was suggested, because the ui is tricky to mesh well.

Maybe that's something for 1.1, right now I'm at the point where we're feature complete.

Edited January 23, 2020 by severedsolo

[vardicd]

10 hours ago, severedsolo said:

- Heh me being the forward thinking guy I am, that would be very doable (and  I think morale boost by funding was also suggested by @Sabrewulf

  I had expandability in mind when I wrote this, so all the "departments" inherit from a "Manager" class, and nothing makes assumptions about what departments exist. All managers can have funding assigned to them (whether they want it or not) - you could have 50 departments if you really wanted.

As it happens, I decided to make the Crew Manager a "Manager" even though I didn't actually want to give it funding at this point, meaning that really, for this to happen, I'd just need to hook up the ui and write a bit of extra logic. I didn't do it straight away when it was suggested, because the ui is tricky to mesh well.

Maybe that's something for 1.1, right now I'm at the point where we're feature complete.

@severedsolo That's nice to know it's nicely modular for future features, but i agree that something like astronaut complex, training, and morale fund allocation, if done should be a future thing. Does make me curious if it would be possible [again as some far future thing] if it would be possible for Bureaucracy to take over KCT tech node unlock feature? have it so that your R+D funding allocation affects how long research nodes take to unlock? that way you don't have Bureaucracy controlling how fast data gets researched, but a separate mod [KCT] controlling how fast tech gets researched, plus would give more incentive to keep R+D funded more regularly. I find as is, I'll gather a bunch of science, then speed a budget cycle with R+D allotment near max get most if not all researched then roll R+D funding back to almost nothing. 

Now, if tech nodes unlocked like building constructions, over time, then I'd have more reason to keep funding going in there, and give the choice between keeping funding in research more weight [which i feel of the 3 current choices, it's the weakest, in my personal opinion] compared to construction and budget. {I guess this is a future feature request? assuming there's a way to code Bureaucracy to control tech node unlocks?} 

As far as the current build goes, I've been playing with it for a while now, and i've not run into any further issues, nor technical problems. Nothing I have been able to repeat anyway, couple of one off weird things that I think were just KSP being KSP. the Bureaucracy mod disappearing out of my save, when deleting another save, and needing to restart KSP, being one. I think this build is solid for a proper release, unless you've got something going on your end I don't know about.