[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Empiro]

That is the reason why the green one is shown.

I don't have anything against plotting S' as long as I can hide it.

Yes, but it's hard to take the continuous derivative of a curve (almost as hard as trying to integrate a curve).

I was playing around with this last night, and I was thinking that it would be neat (though probably unfeasible) to show a part's (or parts if they have a degree of symmetry) contribution to the area ruling, when you have the part highlighted.

[ferram4]

@Ricardo.b: Yes, during animations FAR revoxelizes the vessel. If it causes a significant amount of lag though, that points to either:

1. Your computer is doing a lot in the background, which interferes with the threads for voxelization.
   
2. You have lots of other mods creating spewing tons of memory garbage, which makes the garbage collector work very hard.
   

I cannot fix either of those.

@Empiro: It's possible, but that's an extra thing to calculate and display. FWIW, just look for segments of the green curve that, well, curve. Yellow line is a measure of the curvature of the green one, so anywhere where it isn't straight will contribute to non-zero S''.

@63Hayden: Ask the CKAN guys, it's their problem, not mine. That's the case for any CKAN issues, including install issues from CKAN. CKAN is like win64 KSP; all the issues are out of my hands, and we'd all be better off if it would just go away.

@rsparkyc: FAR does things based on the vessel as a whole, and it also doesn't require tons of funky part-by-part overrides like the stock model does. Seriously, cargo bays, decouplers, etc. all require specialized treatment in stock because of the hollow section.

Also, as NathanKell mentioned, stock barely has any stall, doesn't account for wing shape (in actuality, it lets wings transform from glider wings at Mach 0 to essentially F-104 wings by Mach 0.3 for no apparent reason. Wings don't even hit compressibility effects at that low Mach number). It's... a very hacked together kind of mess. No one wanted to try and do things right, only hack it sort-of together.

[Ryds]

It should be stock, I have no idea where the sense of achievement comes from by launching craft in stock.

[Coulter47]

KSP the only game i know of that tells you that windows is bad get linux 64! i like it

[Hellbrand]

Why Is everybody using 1.0.4

[blowfish]

Why Is everybody using 1.0.4

Why not?

[WalterB]

Hi all,

First off, thanks Ferram for your hard work and perseverance in fixing the voxelization bugs. I had no problems at all with FAR 0.15.3 on KSP 1.0.2.

Now however, I'm running FAR 0.15.3.1 on KSP 1.0.4 and I've noticed some weirdness with FAR and launch clamps. If I load a craft file in the VAB that contains launch clamps (TT18-A Launch Stability Enhancer) FAR doesn't display the cross sectional curves and the mach and AoA sweeps don't work. When the file is loaded I get the error message "Cannot find module 'GeometryPartModule'". Please see the screenshots below. When I take the launch clamps off or I load a file that doesn't have any, everything works fine and no error message.

I have no idea if this is an issue with FAR or KSP but for now I can just save my vehicles without clamps and add just prior to launch.

[ferram4]

Known issue, fixed in dev build.

[Kitspace]

Another few questions regarding the discussion on the previous page.

If you are descending with a constant indicated airspeed the true airspeed will decrease with altitude and the aircraft will decelerate. But if you descend steeper and let the indicated airspeed increase what is the threshold or how to call it after which the true airspeed will stop decreasing and start increasing also?

If you descend from a very high altitude in a long dive the calculations show that even if you increase the indicated airspeed over two or more times you could still be significantly slowing down.

I do not know exactly how precise those calculations really are but for me they look quite plausible.

How is that actually possible?

If the two airspeeds are exchanging does it mean that the aircraft is going at its current terminal velocity? If yes why does the indicated airspeed and drag increase further? If not why does it decelerate while loosing altitude? I guess if it really was terminal velocity the indicated airspeed would be constant with altitude and it would be impossible to increase it further by diving harder without applying more power?

Can anybody help me with these questions please?

[taniwha]

Kitspace: somebody did. Read back a page or two.

[Kitspace]

I just did read a few pages ago. Do you mean the previous related question posts?

This post was related to a previous conversation indeed but this conversation was unfortunately interrupted as the post was pushed back very quickly.

[taniwha]

Kitspace: at least have the decency to read all of the posts between your question and now. Being pushed back quickly is no excuse.

[Ryds]

Hello,

I've downloaded the latest version of FAR. The AVC log at startup says it is loaded but there is no FAR icon in the VAB or flightscene. I'm not sure if screenshots will help but I can supply them to show the FAR installation and the AVC confirmation if they would help? I'm certain that I've downloaded the master from GIT and installed the copy from the Gamedata folder. Bit of an odd one, as I say I'm not sure if screenshots will help but let me know which ones you need if they will.

Ubuntu 14

KSP 1.0.4

FAR 15-3-1

A few mods, in particular Blizzy's toolbar which is not updated to 1.0.4 but would that cause the issue?

Many thanks!

EDIT: I forgot ModularFlightIntegrator, all works fine now, sorry!

Edited June 25, 2015 by Ryds

[Kitspace]

Absolutely no need for the attitude.

There was never any offense meant.

I think I just said quite clearly that I did read all the posts in the two pages between my latest questions and now.

It is not that hard to do at all. And there is nothing related to my questions there.

[sjwt]

If we could all keep on track and calm, that would be good =>

-Mod team

[Amram]

Question regarding FAR and 1.0.4:

any input on what benefit I'm getting from FAR in that regard.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/20451-1-0-3-Ferram-Aerospace-Research-v0-15-3-1-Garabedian-6-22-15?p=1924777&viewfull=1#post1924777

that's an itemised list I made of what far did that stock didn't at the time. Stock's aero feels a bit better now, but its still lacking in all the key areas, bubblewraps the player way too much, does some really odd stuff with its wings and cargobays, and over here we've got Ferram pulling hair out to match the strangeness we call reality that much more closely.

I suppose there is one very singular advantage here over stock. All the world's literature on aero, damned near all of it applies in far in some way or other, that was the whole point of FAR, reality in ksp, can't say that about stock.

[damerell]

FAR is best. I regret deeply the FAR-CKAN schism, but FAR is the one mod I'd keep using if it was impossible to install via CKAN.

[ferram4]

So, current progress:

Work is being made on area ducting through vehicles for getting cross-section right. It's currently very ad-hoc and will probably get a lot of changes to make it make more physical sense, but it does function.

[gsarducci]

Can anybody help me with these questions please?

Kit,

Well, I'll take a stab at this. True airspeed and indicated airspeed can easily be confusing. In simple terms, true airspeed is the speed of an object through an airmass. INDICATED airspeed is a measure of the differential between the total pressure and static pressure of an object moving through that airmass. At sea level on a standard day, true airspeed will equal indicated airspeed. As altitude increases, air density decreases, so there are less air molecules exerting pressure relative to the static pressure, thus indicated airspeed will diverge from true airspeed. In this scenario, a constant INDICATED airspeed will yield an INCREASE in TRUE airspeed. Bear in mind, the molecules of air are still travelling at TRUE airspeed regardless of the INDICATED airspeed, so for a given air density, MACH speed is dependent on TRUE airspeed (as is thermal heating due to friction).

In relation to the discussion on terminal velocity, terminal velocity is the speed at which the downward potential of gravity and the drag caused by the parcel of air acting on it are in equilibrium and no further acceleration is possible. In atmospheric flight, as an object falls into denser air, it will actually decelerate as there are more air molecules acting against the object falling. True airspeed will decrease, indicated airspeed will increase to a point. On a standard day, those two numbers would theoretically equal each other at sea level.

[psunavy03]

OK, I just tried the new release to see if it would fix a bug I've noted recently, but no joy. This one, for me, is fairly gamebreaking. I'll be glad to provide whatever info you need, and if you need me to dive back in/delete mods/try testing, I'll be glad to help. Here's what I've got so far. FWIW I'm running the 64 bit Linux build, 1.0.4, but this also happened before the 1.0.2 update. Seems that nuFAR is specifically when it began, but my memory could be hazy and I wasn't taking notes early on.

This only seems to happen in orbit around Kerbin, outside the atmosphere. I will launch a rocket just fine, and then create a maneuver node to Hohmann transfer to the Mun. Once this happens, pitch control goes all wonky. Specifically, I can hold down the "S" key, and the raw pitch inputs will oscillate between full up and full down. Roll and yaw work normally. I deleted all mods except for Mechjeb and KW Rocketry, because if I deleted them, the game would kill my spacecraft due to incompatible parts. No joy. But deleting FAR cleans it right up again, no pitch control issues at all.

Other things I notice: With SAS inputs, the spacecraft will damp out any oscillations in pitch. On disengaging SAS, Jeb inexplicably commands full pitch-down without any input from me, and then alternates banging the stick off the stops in the up and down directions, with no roll or yaw input. Again, this is not only seen in the behavior of the spacecraft; you can see the raw pitch inputs changing in the lower left.

One last weird thing . . . I backed up my save, killed all mods except FAR 15.3.1, loaded a sandbox game, and everything works 4.0. This is bizarre.

Edited June 26, 2015 by psunavy03

[ferram4]

That indicates user error, as the only way that could occur is if you turned on the AoA limiter and never turned it off. This is not a bug, this is FAR doing exactly what you asked it to do.

[psunavy03]

Son of a . . .

Sure enough; it was still on. Figured an AoA limiter wouldn't work with no air, but I was thinking in terms of real airflow, not computer code. Wasn't even in my scan. Thanks!

[Max.10.07]

Umm? Help? I built a jet with wings 1 shift-rotation up, and when it goes past about 150-200m/s the camera goes behind it, and whenever I touch the rotational controls the navball goes mad, showing insane changes in velocity, as well as the G-meter, in the mk3 cockpit the navball is upside down, and sometimes the craft just randomly explodes, I also tried giving Bill a 0-g ride in an mk3 cargo bay, but he was still dragged to the rear lke in 0.90.

Or is it 1.0.4?

Edited June 26, 2015 by Max.10.07

[ferram4]

Try again, with a better description of your issue. In addition, follow the full steps in the sticky from the Modded Support forum, all the other mods you're using, and whether you installed through CKAN or not. If you don't do this, I can't hope to help you.

[Naten]

I'm wondering if flaps mounted under the wing so the wing will look like this:

_________________

`‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾\‾‾‾‾‾‾`

or this:

__________________

`‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾\

...would work. So, sort of like a split flap. When I try this, the control surface acting as the flap just stalls and doesn't seem to improve lift characteristics at all.

In addition, I'm still having trouble making the flaps help provide lift, as they always stall if I deflect them any reasonable amount - the stalling starts around 25 degrees...

How do I make the flaps not stall? Increasing camber and leading edge flaps do help, but it doesn't fix the issue.